Author Topic: Inter 170-952  (Read 174773 times)

Offline bush man

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Re: Inter 170-952
« Reply #60 on: February 04, 2015, 12:04:47 AM »
   Hi Greg the muflers are the same judging by your pics also what are the worth or what  is any one prepared to pay for one.

    I know you guys need to get them as cheap as possible  as the guy that has them wont give me a price just says that they   

    are hard to get so if I rock up and say I want X amount and I will give you this $ and see what happens  if he says no then its
     time to haggle any way hope to get them for a good price   , they are brand new been sitting in his shed for years .
     
         cheers John

Offline Bluebell One-eight

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Re: Inter 170-952
« Reply #61 on: February 04, 2015, 09:06:11 PM »
Hi Greg, keep at it! Some more comments, The change in fans was (I think) just to manufacture them out of thicker steel to stop flexing. The top end of the ambient temperature range I think was 125 F and that was the reason for the big fan and the oil cooler. The one you have is a civvy one and should be quite ok down there. The big fan was very hard on water pump bearings, if anyone is operating one of these trucks and the "death rattle"starts, fix it or it will screw off the shaft in 200-300 miles and will do a lot of damage. I would say that your engine was overhauled after it left service, the army always used change overs as it was faster and more cost effective . It appears that the engine is the original. The services always generate their share of "furphies"and one is that oddometers were reset when the engine was changed. This was not true, that only happened when the truck was sent down the rebuild line. A tag was usually affixed inside the cab when finished. The process was known as a base overhaul and was done at 3 Base workshops at Broadmeadows. The truck was completely dismantled and rebuilt. In the early times  only the number plates would be original in an extreme case, with even the chassis being changed if it needed repairs Later in the 80s more recognition was given to the role of the chassis number in the trucks identity.With the galvanised rims they often got mixed up so use them. The only thing not to do is mix the removable components as the two types were made by different makers. If the engine still has good oil pressure then it should be OK. If you had to use the other one, you could swap the carby and manifold. The twins are THIRSTY!

Offline Ravvin

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Re: Inter 170-952
« Reply #62 on: February 15, 2015, 03:40:56 PM »
Hi all.
Don't have a great deal to show for the time I've spent on the restoration lately, but the things I'm working on seem to throw up lots of little side jobs that have to be done first.
My plan was to strip back, prime and paint the driver's side chassis rail so I could refit all the front air lines. Then I could refit the radiator and have it to a point where I could start and move it around the paddock.
It didn't turn out to be that simple. To clean the chassis rail, I had to remove the air, brake and fuel lines from that side rail.
To do that, I had to get at a bolt through a bracket that held the air line up. To get at that I had to remove the starter motor.
That was fairly easy. Unfortunately, when I got it off, I found the clutch slave cylinder above it had been leaking for ages and made a real mess of the starter.



The alloy cap that tropic-proofs the end was almost furry. The steel body was all blistered and rusted.
I started by covering the opening and taping over the plastic end on the solenoid, then I carefully sand blasted it. I was really surprised how well it came out.
After that, it was degreased and etch-primed.



That's where I'm up to know with it as I think I should paint it for better protection, but I'm not sure what with. I was thinking maybe a high-temp engine and exhaust paint might be the thing.
I don't know if it actually gets very hot, but I thought it might stand up to any new brake fluid leaks I get after I put the new clutch slave cylinder in. What do you all think?

I now have all the pipes and hoses out of the way, so the next job is wire-wheeling or sand-blasting the inside of the chassis rail. Once its cleaned back, I can etch prime it then give it a coat of chassis black.
As this has bitumen in it, you can't really paint over it, so the inside of the rails will stay black. The outside, top and bottom will be primed and painted camo green to stay in character.
The main reason for the chassis black inside the rails is that its a lot easier to repaint the outside, but there is a lot of stuff to remove to do the inside and I hope to never have to do it again.
I finally got the spare wheel holder plate and hoist finished. I can't find the Before pic, but it was pretty rough.



It's looking serviceable now, but you can see the deep pitting from the chemicals and rust. Now I just need a crank handle and I could refit the spare wheel carrier.
Anyway, that can wait until I'm finished under the front section. I don't need more things to belt my head into.

Now for some good news. John, (Bush Man), has managed to score some brand new, never in service, mufflers for the MK3/4, F1 & F2 trucks.
These mufflers will only fit if your truck has the dual pipes from the manifold. These mufflers would have to be pretty rare now, and he has done a great job of acquiring them for us, considering he doesn't even own a truck that they would fit.

 

As you can see, these are definitely the genuine article. One of them was still wrapped in the original hessian and many have the NSN number written on them.
If any forum members need one of these for their truck, PM John, (Bush Man).
If you are looking at having them freighted interstate, the measurements you need to calculate freight are: 860 long by 220wide/high.
The muffler, without any packing, weighs 12kg exactly.
I don't know anyone from Tassy that will be going to Corowa this year, but there's a chance some of the guys from the Defence Heritage Transport Tasmania group might be going, so I'll find out in case they can take a few over.

Greg.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2020, 06:22:54 PM by Ravvin »

Offline Ravvin

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Re: Inter 170-952
« Reply #63 on: February 21, 2015, 05:10:41 PM »
Just spent the morning scraping grease and gunge off the engine and gearbox before I degrease and wash everything.
The good news is that I won't have to repaint either as the 10mm thick layer has perfectly preserved the original paint.
I used a plastic scraper so nothing got damaged.
While working on the driver's side of the gearbox I unearthed another overhaul plate.



I am guessing that the "129" refers to a specific workshop, the "1 10 77" refers to the overhaul date, being 10 January 1977, and the "9 3 77" means it was fitted to my truck on 3 October 1977.

I made a temporary cover plate for the starter motor hole so I didn't fill the bell housing with degreaser and water. While working in this area I found that the wires from the generator had worn through the insulation and melted together at some point. I'll have to replace that section. I've been thinking of replacing the generator with a modern alternator, but I don't know what would be involved with the wiring. The MK3 has an amp meter in the dash and an external voltage regulator, up near the air pressure buzzer. Would I have to bypass the voltage regulator, as the new alternators are self regulating? Could I still use the original amp meter in the dash? If anyone has done this modification and had it work successfully, please let me know what you did.

The rear wiring loom joins the main loom down near the starter motor. The connections are just bullet connectors and are very heavily corroded. The actual wire in the rear loom seems good, but I have to replace the first 2" as the copper has turned black and brittle. Luckily, there is plenty of slack so I can shorten it a bit. Instead of bullet connectors, I think I will use a waterproof plug and socket like the one below.



Its smaller than the current mess, waterproof and easy to undo. The connector pins are rated at 13 amp, so higher than needed for tail lights and probably higher than the old bullet connectors would handle.

Greg.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2020, 06:24:23 PM by Ravvin »

Offline bush man

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Re: Inter 170-952
« Reply #64 on: February 21, 2015, 11:52:04 PM »
    greg on a self regulating alternator main wire goes to bat the other small wire is for warning light/ amp meter you will have to
      to change the wiring on the trucks regulator plenty of info on google about how to do it  also found some of those muflers
      still had the ADE no, sticker on them , will post it later.
          regards john

Offline Ravvin

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Re: Inter 170-952
« Reply #65 on: February 22, 2015, 12:55:16 AM »
From the MK4 RPS, it is likely to be ADE (V) 94 - 349.
The NSN number is 2990-66-024-7269. I found part of the NSN number on one of my new ones. Good to see they are the right ones.  ;D
Now I just need to get an outlet pipe made up. I'll use one of the triangular flanges off the old rusted out muffler to bolt it on.
That should quieten it down a bit.

Offline Chazza

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Re: Inter 170-952
« Reply #66 on: February 23, 2015, 08:49:40 AM »
A thought for the future! If you keep the old muffler and cut a bit of the skin off, someone can make a drawing of its construction.

I have made mufflers before and it is no big deal to do so, and seeing that the originals appear to be almost extinct, it would be handy for future reference and production,

Cheers Charlie
S2 Command Recce '59
S2A 109" GS '63
S2A Fire Truck '64

Offline Ravvin

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Re: Inter 170-952
« Reply #67 on: February 23, 2015, 10:10:52 AM »
Yep, that's a good idea.
It's very basic inside. I looked through the rust holes. :)
The 2 inlet pipes run straight through and stop 6" from the far end. The exit pipe does the same but from the other end and opposite side. There are 2 brackets welded to the inside walls that support the pipes, but no baffling or other sound reduction system. I'll take measurements and pics, then cut it open length ways and take more measurements and pics.
The only tricky bit will be working out the placement of the inlet pipe stubs on the end. Looking at the pics again, the placement seems to be linked to the welded seam along the back. Really though, as long as the 2 inlet stubs are spaced the correct distance apart from each other and are the right lengths, it shouldn't matter exactly where  they are in the can. I'll make cardboard templates of the ends and scan them.

I got the insides of the chassis rails cleaned and etch primed yesterday. If the rain holds off this afternoon I'll get them both coated with Underbody Black. Then I can finally start putting a few bits back on.

Greg.

Offline Ravvin

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Re: Inter 170-952
« Reply #68 on: March 03, 2015, 07:14:29 PM »
Well, I got the chassis rails painted, but that's about it.
I started cleaning up the brake master unit, as it has to go back on so I can make sure the new air lines will be the correct length.
When I finally got the brake master cylinder separated from the air actuator, I found some nasty crystallised stuff in the cavity.



I don't know why they used aluminium for the mounting bracket. It doesn't do well when in contact with brake fluid and air. I would have expected them to put a steel sleeve in there. I guess they figured that with regular maintenance, it wasn't a major issue.
Once I brushed all the loose grit out, I found both the master cylinder and the air actuator totally seized up. I've sprayed the brake master with CRC and I'll screw a grease nipple into the bleeder hole, block the outlet hole, and pump it full of grease. That ought to pop it out.
I'll post up a pic showing how bad it is once I get it all dismantled.

Greg.
I think the air actuator will free up enough to dismantle if I pour some diesel into the cavity and leave it to soak.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2020, 06:25:33 PM by Ravvin »

Offline Ravvin

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Re: Inter 170-952
« Reply #69 on: March 06, 2015, 02:50:57 PM »
Hiyas.
The air actuator came apart fairly easily. The rubber diaphragm is a bit perished, showing fine cracks where it flexes when it's working, but I think it will do for now. I'll look into getting a new one and keep this old one as an emergency spare. The outside has about 5 layers of paint on it, all different colours and most peeling. I'll clean it back and repaint it before I reassemble it all.

The master cylinder was a real pain. The banjo bolt and bung bolts had very corroded heads and I had to heat and cool them a few times before I could move them with the vice grips. Both need replacing.
Once I got the top off, I realised it had been a while since anyone had topped up the brake fluid.



It was sort of crystallised and really stank. I scraped it out and flushed it with turps until it seemed pretty clean. To get the piston out, I tapped it in about 10mm with a wooden block so I could clean the lip where the circlip fitted. Once that was done, I stuck the end of the compressed air dust gun into the hole where the brake fluid from the reservoir flows and gave it a quick puff. Next time I do that, I will hold a piece of rag over the end as it shot the piston out across the yard. Luckily it landed on grass, so it wasn't scratched up.
I cleaned it all up & sand blasted the inside of the reservoir, then washed it all out with loads of degreaser and water. The main cylinder has been sleeved with a brass insert and it is in really good condition. I'll just give it a bit of a polish with fine wet & dry to make it all shiny again and it will be good for another 50 years.
Unfortunately, when I cleaned up the piston I found that there was a lot of corrosion in the groove under the rubber seal. It had built up a thick chunk of crystal-like stuff and put pressure on the front section, cracking it almost halfway around.
I have to find a replacement piston. The RPS says its a Bendix and the part number is C50-160, but nobody local has anything like it.



Something I found that was different from what the RPS shows is that the first thing in the bore is a thick rubber washer. The valve assembly sits against this and then there is the spring, a disk, the primary rubber bucket, a copper disk, the piston with the secondary seal, then a thick washer and circlip. The rubber washer might take some shock out of the system when the valve hits the bottom, or maybe its there to stop corrosion between the dissimilar metals. Either way, it was in there and not listed in the RPS, but there was a new one in the K3X rebuild kit.

Oh, there is a gasket under the top plate of the reservoir that seems to be made of a resin or something. Its shown as Bendix part number C50-173. Any idea what I could use instead? This one is very hard and I doubt it would seal.

Greg.

« Last Edit: March 11, 2020, 06:26:43 PM by Ravvin »

Offline john.k

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Re: Inter 170-952
« Reply #70 on: March 07, 2015, 08:27:50 PM »
The thick rubber washer and the valve assy in the spring end are there to retain pressure in the brake system when the brakes are released ,and stop fluid weeping from the wheel cylinders when unused for any length of time.This is why a perfectly good wheel cylinder will sometimes leak after a couple of weeks parked up.Note that these parts must not be used in a boosted system,the retained pressure will cause the brakes to lock and not release .In other words, dont use these in a conventional Inter or Dodge.Regards John.

Offline Ravvin

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Re: Inter 170-952
« Reply #71 on: March 07, 2015, 10:42:14 PM »
Thanks for that.
Its interesting that the thick rubber washer that goes in the cylinder before the valve and spring isn't shown or mentioned in the RPS, either the MK4 or the F1/F2 versions.



I'm wondering if there was an EMEI that decided it was needed. The PBR K3X kit had a new valve assembly (17) and seals (11 & 14), as well as a new piston washer (13) and a new rubber washer for the valve to rest against.
I'm not sure its going to be a problem, but the hole from the bleeder screw into the cylinder is actually covered by this washer. I suppose that trapped air should be able to work around it though.

I got half of the air actuator sand blasted today and should get the rest done tomorrow. The stroke indicator rod is really stuck. The RPS shows it has some sort of preformed synthetic rubber packing around it, so heating it might be a bad idea. Its soaking in CRC and I'll try to gently twist it and see if it will free up.

Greg.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2020, 06:27:24 PM by Ravvin »

Offline Ravvin

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Re: Inter 170-952
« Reply #72 on: March 08, 2015, 07:29:31 PM »
Hi all.
I went for a drive yesterday and picked up 6 tires for my truck.
All are Dunlop CP50's; 1 is about 60% tread and the others are around 80% or so. Lots of shallow cuts across the tread, as if they were uses on sharp rocky ground, but they are far better than what I have. I'd say mine were left sitting flat for a long time and have split badly now they are pumped up. They would be ok for trundling around the paddock while I work on it, but wouldn't get through a roadworthy.



7hr round trip, dodging bewildered tourists, but it was a nice day for it.

Greg.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2020, 06:28:35 PM by Ravvin »

Offline john.k

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Re: Inter 170-952
« Reply #73 on: March 08, 2015, 09:26:38 PM »
There are all sorts of different kits for these cylinders,in the one pictured ,#17 is the retained pressure valve ,and it has an integrated rubber seal for the cylinder end.I dont even know that the valve is needed with the Girling wedge type wheel cylinders,as they have pretty small cups.The Lockheed and Bendix brakes have cylinders up to 2" bore and larger,and they are what the master is designed for.The army should have used the English Girling cylinder,that is compatible with these  wheel cylinders.Incidentally,I bough one of these Lockheed cylinders new for forklift last week,they are all Chinese or Indian now,cost around $130+gst from TVH.Regards John.

Offline Ravvin

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Re: Inter 170-952
« Reply #74 on: March 29, 2015, 08:59:44 PM »
Just a minor update.
I finally got the brake master cylinder and air actuator all cleaned, painted and rebuilt. Its back on the truck so I can get exact measurements for the air lines.





Looks much better now, and the piston actually moves.

I replaced the 1/2" pipe from the air supply to the front crossmember, where it joins to the hose that feeds the foot brake and trailer brake valves, as well as the 1/2" line that runs back from there to the double check valve and out to the brake actuator, but I had issues with the 3/8" line from the trailer brake valve to the double check valve.
The company I have been getting my new air line pipe and fittings from had never seen flare nuts to suit 3/8" pipe that screws onto a 5/8" UNF nipple. Its not a modern sizing. I tried a few brass ones but the nut actually splits with very little tension on it. I have another local hydraulic mob to check tomorrow and hopefully they will have a steel version as I need 10, all up. Most of the old ones were so corroded that I had to either cut them off or use vice grips. The modern 2 piece fittings I have for the 1/2" lines are great. Because the nut pulls against the collar, not the actual flared end, it means the pipe doesn't keep trying to turn as I do them up.
I also got my new belts all tensioned up and the new thermostat fitted, so as soon as I get this 3/8" line fixed, I can replace the radiator and oil cooler and get some coolant/antifreeze/antiboil/anticorrosion into it. I have brand new (NOS) radiator hoses, but have to get a new top hose made up for the oil cooler. Then it's just a matter of refitting my nice clean starter motor, installing and bleeding the new clutch slave cylinder, running new wires to the generator to replace the melted ones, cleaning up and refitting the exhaust pipes and new (NOS) muffler, and I can give it a run. On the spot, no movement or anything, as I still have to clean up all the prop shafts and fit new uni joints. And that's just so I can trundle it around the paddock so I can mow the grass under it.
While it's been fun pulling bits off and cleaning, rebuilding and painting them, it actually feels like I am achieving something when I can see bits going back on.

Greg.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2020, 06:29:57 PM by Ravvin »