Inter 170-952

[Ravvin]

Thanks for reading my thread.
Steam is a good idea. Until recently, we had a big weaving mill here in town and I often did shut-down work there. I could have plumbed my cylinder in and blasted it with live steam straight from the boiler. Unfortunately, they have now closed down. My sister has a friend who does maintenance on trains and he steam cleaned her Hilux for her, so I might see if he can have a go at this.

Yes, I pulled the non-return valve off the front of the cylinder and gave it a check. The housing was mostly clean and shiny, but the spring had a hard coating on it. It wasn't exactly rusty, but it had a buildup on it like the scale you get in the radiator. I was able to carefully scrape it off and the spring seems usable.

I set up a drum and some clear tubing to act as a temporary radiator so I could flush some of the junk out of the block. I put the thermostat back in as I thought I would need it to get the heat up. That was a mistake. Without the radiator to actually cool the water, I can only run it for 15 mins before the water in the drum hits 90° and I have to shut down to let it cool. There were a fair amount of rust and scale flakes cycling through the pipes. I know the thermostat opens fully at 75° as I put it in my jug with the coffee thermometer and heated the water with the steamer wand. Still, it has to be restricting the flow and may be blocking big chunks, so I'll take it out, put an old sock over the end of the top pipe and run it some more. That should filter out the bigger chunks.

Also, the compressor is happily pumping out air. I still have the front pipes off as I have to sand and paint the front cross-member under the radiator before it goes back in, and I stuck my finger on the outlet pipe to check.
I'm going to drop the front driveshaft and the shaft from the gearbox to the transfer case so I have more room under there. There is a mass of air, fuel and brake lines running in the driver's side chassis rail and I need to be able to get in there to remove, clean and replace them. I also need room to clean out and paint the rails themselves. I'll put up some before and after pics later.

Greg.

[Ravvin]

Right, got it all flushed. Here's a pic of the setup



I only had enough of the flushing chemical for 20L of cooling water, and when I put that in the drum, the water level was below the water pump.
I couldn't lift the drum without also making the top hose too high, so I filled a few 2L coke bottles with water and dropped them in.
This brought the level to about 6" up the top hose. I slipped a sock over the end to catch any floaties and started it up.
This time I was able to run for 25 minutes before the temps got a bit high. I also now know my temperature and oil pressure gauges work.
I don't know about the fuel gauge as there's nothing in the tanks and the amp meter sits in the middle whether its running or not.
After it had cooled down a bit, I bailed the water out of the drum and pulled the coke bottles out. 3 of the bottles had an air space at the top but one was totally full.



I'm surprised it bulged like this without bursting.
While I was pulling the air reservoir out the other day, I found this length of 1/2" air line wedged between the top of the reservoir and the chassis rail.



As you can see, it appears to have burst. What I can't understand is what it was doing there. The only 1/2" line on that side of the truck is the one from the compressor to the air reservoir,
and this rusted pipe is much too long for that. The only 1/2" air line on the truck that is this long or longer is the one that runs on the driver's side, from a tee to the tractor protection valve at the rear.
Both of the lines on mine have been replaced with compressor hose, but why would they move the blown line across and jamb it above the air reservoir?
I really need to find someone local with a MK3 and crawl under it and take lots of pics.

Greg.

[Mick_Marsh]

My mate John buys cheap flights on Jetstar or Tiger for $10. He just picked up some to Hobart.

Get a cheap flight. I'll pick you up from the airport and you can spend all day crawling over mine.

[Ravvin]

Thanks for the offer Mick. It may come to that at some time in the near future as there are so many little bits I just can't work out with only the MK4 RPS and the line drawings in the service manual.
I just pulled the jerry can holders off and found that both the brake line from the master cylinder and the fuel line from the right side tank are going through a hole in the chassis rail with no grommet.
The fuel line has rubbed through as it appears to be copper and I think it is a replacement for the original as it isn't clipped anywhere and winds through the air lines.
I have a feeling the original may have run along the outside of the rail as there are holes for retaining clip bolts that have nothing in them. I also found that the driveshaft to the front diff has a stuffed uni joint.
I tried to remove the shaft to make some room but I couldn't loosen even a single bolt. They are soaking in penetrant for now but I think I need to heat them. That has to wait until I drop the fuel tanks.
Its going to be a big job restoring the truck as it is now, without also setting it on fire.
I have the spare wheel carrier off and in pieces so I can clean that up a bit later when it cools down. No fun being all sweaty and getting covered in dust and rust while trying to hold onto an angle grinder in this heat.

Greg.

[Ravvin]

Well. its been a while so I better do a bit of an update before I forget it all.
I haven't gotten anything major done, just a lot of little things that had to be fixed before I could tackle the big things.
All the air lines from the compressor and governor to the reservoir have been removed, cleaned and painted or replaced with new ones that I bent and flared.
I had to clean the inside of the passengers side chassis rail back to bare metal, then etch prime and paint. There's a section I couldn't reach, inside the rail behind the wheel. I'll do that when I take the wheels off to do the brakes. It's done back to the transfer case, but I couldn't get the U-bolt undone that holds the tray on. I have a nut splitter on order and it should make short work of them.
Once they are out of the way, I can clean and repaint the crossmember that supports the transfer case and then work my way back up the drivers side chassis rail. All the pipes on that side are hanging loose and a couple will have to be replaced.
The air reservoir is all clean and painted, ready to go back in. I just have to shape a couple of blocks to support it out from the rail a bit. The one that was originally there crumbled to pieces when I took the tank out. Not sure what it was made of. It looked like laminated layers of thick gasket material. I'm going to use timber and shape a curve into one side to cradle the tank. Then I have to make new bands to bolt it to the chassis rail. The originals were round rod but I think I'll make some flat strap bands with threaded bits on the end, similar to the fuel tank straps. I'll line them with conveyor belting to stop wear. Once that's done, the tank is back in and the rail and pipes on the drivers side are painted/replaced, I can pressurise the system and find any leaks.
Oh, just realised I have to replace all the brake lines too. At least that's easy. Its just 3 lengths of 1/4" and 2 of 5/16". I have the pipe and fittings already.
Most of the spare wheel carrier is cleaned and painted now. I just have the round pipe brace to wire wheel and the short piece of channel that fits through the wheel to sandblast, then it can be put aside until the end. Its a lot easier to get under there without it on.
The radiator should be ready soon, so I thought I better get the front crossmember out and clean it up. Its a bit hard to see in the pic below, but its pretty rusty.



This is the plate that bolts under it and supports the front of the engine.



After spending ages jacking the engine up and getting the bolts out, I found that it only comes out if you can raise the cab about a foot. Wasn't very happy.
It took ages, trying to get into all the corners and underneath it with the wire wheel on the grinder. Got it done though. Now its all primed and painted and back in place with all new bolts. Looks good.



I'm going to replace the uni joints on the main, front and rear driveshafts. I've never done these before. Has anyone got any tips or tricks to make it easier? I know you remove the circlips first, but should the cups just slide out or do I need to press them out from the other side?

Greg.

[Phil B]

Ravvin,
It can be done with a hammer and a drift because you are replacing the cups and the cross so it doesn't matter if you damage them taking them out.
It is a lot easier to reassemble with a press if you can get the use of one. The prop shafts are hard to hold because of their size and this makes the reassembly with a hammer and drift difficult.
The tricky part is holding all four cups onto the cross while you assemble the joint.
Duct tape around all four makes this easier. The duct tape can be cut away when the joint is complete.
Phil B

[Ravvin]

Thanks Phil.
I bought a second-hand 20t air/hydraulic press just after I got the truck when I couldn't get the door hinge pins out.
I'm thinking I would press the new cups into the flange first, with the uni-joint, as it would be easier to hold in place. Then, once those 2 hold the uni in position, it would be easier to press the 2 cups into place in the main shaft section.
Once the top of the cup gets just below the surface, I would fit the circlip in place and continue pressing it in with something like a socket as a, uh, press-tool thing. That way as soon as it was in position the circlip would snap into place and not allow it to go too far.
One local bearing place quoted me $70 for each Uni-joint. Tax-ex.  A local driveshaft rebuilder looked up the original part number and said he could get them for $40 each, gst inc. Bit of a difference.
What is the best way to tell if they actually need replacing? One of the ones on the shaft to the front axle has no needle bearings in one cup, so that's pretty obvious. Some of the others have a sort of rubber seal around the top of each cup, but some are missing chunks of rubber and some don't have them at all. It looks like some may have been replaced with different brands/types at some point.

Greg.

[Chazza]

If the uni joints have damaged seals - replace them.

I use an offset-vice on a post to press the cups in, or out, one at a time with a suitably sized socket. Put the circlip in afterwards; if you have pressed too far it will be pushed back when you do the other side.

Before disassembling, or assembling, scrape all of the paint rust and dirt off the bores of the joint and use a lubricant such as WD40 to disassemble. I use engine oil when I put them together.

When you press in the new cups an assistant can be very helpful, but pay particular attention to whether the cup is going in straight as they can go in crooked and shave metal off one side of the joint 

Cheers Charlie

[Ravvin]

Thanks for that.
All but 1 uni had broken rubber seals, signs of water and rust in the needles and no sign of grease. Guaranteed, if I replace 5, then the 6th will fail shortly after, so I ordered a full set. A lot easier to replace them all now than later on the side of the road or out in the bush.
I finally sorted out the clutch issue. The master cylinder is still available through places like Repco, as it is a PBR P4977 as shown in the MK4 RPS. The slave cylinder was trickier. The original was an IH part, 859757 R92. These were replaced somewhere along the line with 2 different PBR units, which were apparently also used by the Land Rovers around that time. Both had 7/8" bores and the same length stroke, but the placement of the mounting plate was different. PBR no longer make either one, but Protex make suitable replacements for them.
The pic below shows the original PBR one off my truck and the new Protex one which replaces it. The Protex part number for this one is P5140.



The original had the wire loop to stop the piston popping out and the new Protex one has a much more secure circlip.
The pic below shows the other type of slave cylinder and its part number is P7226.



Both of these and the original PBR unit use the same rebuild kit, which is K655S. There's only a new piston seal and rubber boot in it, so if you need the actual piston, you may have to buy the complete unit. The actual circlip would be a standard item, suitable for a 7/8" bore.

Greg.

[Ravvin]

Well, I got a bit more cleaning and painting done. The clutch master cylinder had been leaking and the paint had all blistered and peeled from the casting that holds it and the brake valve thingy, so I pulled it all out, cleaned it up and painted it all.
As you can see in the pic below, the whole compartment was pretty rough.



I cleaned and painted most of the metal of the sides and top, but I have to remove the toe panel and bend up a new one. I'll use some of the 2.5mm sheet that I took off the sides when I got it. Its a lot thicker, but that can only be a good thing.
As you can see, it looks a lot better with a new clutch master cylinder and lots of paint.



I'm working towards getting the radiator back in but before that happens I need to clean and paint everything behind it while I have (relatively) easy access.
Before:



After:



The air lines that run down the passengers side chassis rail are all cleaned and painted, ready to go back in. Before they do I need to finish cleaning and painting the inside of the rail.
I've found I can't get at parts of it with a wire brush so I tried sand blasting. Its slow, but does a good job. The problem is I only had a small tub of grit and it doesn't go far but costs a lot. I tried using washed sand, but it was too coarse for my small setup and wouldn't feed. I have to either find finer sand or someone who sells grit at a decent price.
Yesterday I managed to get most of the air and fuel lines out of the drivers side chassis rail so I could clean and paint it too. The fuel lines just crumbled to rust flakes so I don't have anything to copy. It's only 5/16" and fairly light wall so I think I'll get a bending spring and just freehand it when its time to replace it. Both 3/8" winch control pipes twisted off, but they had rusted away completely between the transfer case and the winch anyway, so no loss there. The tricky one is the main 1/2" air supply line that feeds the brake, winch, air gauge and trailer brake systems. The front section of line is usable and just needs cleaning and painting. The rear section had a seized flare nut and was twisted off. I have the pipe and fittings to replace it, but the new pipe I have has much thicker walls and my flaring tool can't handle it. I may have to bend up all the sections I need to replace and take them all in to flared. If I can get this other Inter rolling chassis (ARN 170-410) from down south, I can pull sections out of it to use as guides. Then I will put whichever looks better in my truck, and the other into 170-410. Once I have all the best bits on my truck, I intend to make the other one into a bush log/fire/winch truck.

While pulling the clutch slave cylinder and starter motor out, I found another brass plate. This one is on the drivers side of the block and shows some rebuild info.



I'm guessing the 40683 means the work was done on the 4/06/1983 and that the cylinders were rebored 0.02" oversize, but the big end and main bearings are still standard size. Interestingly, the REMLR list shows it was actually scheduled for disposal more than a year earlier on 19/04/1982.

I have a new clutch slave cylinder to go in and am working on cleaning up the starter motor, which has had years of brake fluid dripping on it, mixed with oil, grease and gunge. It still spins the engine over, but will look a lot better once I finish. Then there's the drivers side chassis rail. Not looking forward to that.

Greg.

[bush man]

 hi greg  ,20 means the cylinders have been bored 20 thou over size glad to see pics of the old girl, lot of work but will be worth it in the end  went an had alook at those muflers  they are 710 long x 190 diameter the inlet and outlet pipes are to one side with the inlet pipes one longer than the other looked at the pic of your muffler and they look the same even got the same clamping plates or what ever they are called,
                                 
                    cheers John

[Ravvin]

Thanks for that John.
The pic in the MK4 RPS shows the 2 inlets as being off-center and it looks like 1 is longer than the other, so it just might fit.
I have to drop the muffler off to make it easier to do some cleaning/painting, so I will take some measurements and post some pics.
Mine has completely rusted out through both ends and almost the entire length of the welded seam along the side. It's probably amplifying the sound, rather than muffling it.

Greg.

[Ravvin]

Ok, I  had to cut the bolts to get it off but its done now.
It seems to match your measurements, 710 long, 190 diameter with the inlets of different lengths and all inlets/outlets offset.
Here are some close-up pics.



 

There's a lug spot-welded to the top, just like in the RPS, but no idea what its for. Mine wasn't connected to anything.

If you get a chance, ask him if he'd sell and how much he wants. I definitely need one, would like 2 so I have a spare or if the parts truck needs one, but if he has more and has a low enough price, I'd be interested in getting a few extra so that other MK3/4/F1/F2 owners who need one know where to find them.
They are heavy buggers, but I occasionally have people travelling backwards and forwards across to Melbourne so we could arrange something. Not sure what else they would fit and this way they at least would be put to a worthwhile use.

Greg.

[Bluebell One-eight]

Hi Greg, have watched progress for a while, and have some comments. The lug on the muffler is for an earth lead which was fitted for suppressing radio interference. On the Inters there weren't as many as Land rovers or Jeeps. The suppression was important around the engine especially with spark ignition. If any metal is not positively earthed close to the engine it can pick up the radio frequency "noise"and act as an antenna playing havoc with any nearby receivers. It's a matter of choice if fitted or not. The truck you have has a Mk 4 chain bin on the right and a Mk3 on the left, again its a matter of choice as Mk 4 bins replaced the earlier ones as stocks ran out. The later bin is much more secure too. The chain bin on the left has the original type of reflector so look after it if you are going for original looks. The four blade fan is not original, but it should be OK down south, it might be a bit quieter and easier on the water pump too. Have a close look at the compressor mounting bracket, they tended to crack after the truck had done a lot of miles. Even if yours doesn't have a high mileage if it had an engine change the bracket might have done a lot more than the speedo indicates

[Ravvin]

I would never have thought of radio noise suppression, although now you mention it, there are sections of braided copper earthing straps all over the truck, linking metal bits to the chassis rails.
I must not be very observant, as I never noticed the differences in the chain bins until you pointed them out.
I remember reading one of the EMEI's about replacing the fan due to the problem with blades snapping off from metal fatigue, but I can't recall if it was switching from the 4 blade to a 5 or something else. What I do know, from running it with a 20L drum of water for a radiator when I flushed it out, is that it puts out a lot of heat. I'm planning on fitting a TM2 Engine Watchdog to it, same as in my Discovery, so I can keep an eye on it. I don't intend to use this one for continuous low range crawling, but if it looks like getting too hot, even with the re-cored radiator, I will look at changing the fan, or fitting a big thermo-fan if I have to.
My compressor mounting bracket has been "modified", by someone chopping a big chunk out of the back of it with an oxy torch when they switched to the split exhaust manifold. They did it while it was in place as there were a few slag chunks stuck to the side of the engine block and in the chassis rail. I didn't see any sign of cracks when I cleaned it all, but I'll make a habit of checking when I service it.
I originally thought my truck had only done 28,000 miles, as that's what's on the speedo,  but I recently found the entire speedo cable and outer sheath were missing and seem to have been gone for a fair while, going by the build-up of gunge on the back of the transfer case where it plugs in.
The plate I found recently show the engine was rebuilt and rebored 20 thou oversize in 1983, but if they reset the odometers when they rebuilt an engine, its anyone's guess how far its travelled. The engine number matches the one listed in the REMLR ARN list, but does anyone know if that number is what it was originally delivered with, or is that what was in it when it was disposed of? I'm guessing the latter.
As much as I'd like to keep it all original, some things won't be and I guess that is also what happened while they were in service. The parts truck I plan to get is an earlier MK3, but it has the galvanised rims from the MK4 and they are in far better condition than mine. I don't know which of the 2 has the better engine. Mine is the one matching the records, but the other one has the dual carbies and replaceable air filter system. Of course, my current engine cover wouldn't fit if I swapped them, so that probably won't happen. As for the rear chain boxes, both of mine are in a bad way, with rust and impact damage. When I eventually find a decent tray for it, I might be lucky and find better boxes too.

Greg.