4BD1 Engine removal- another method?

[Philthy]

Hi all

Well  49-175’s engine is running a treat after years standing.

But the clutch is frozen solid. Done everything I know to free it but to no avail.

The throw-out bearing sounds terrible so even if I freed it I’d still would have to address the bearing sooner or later.

Lucky, I found this out doing a engine/coolant stress test before I put the front end back on.


So here is my question.

Can the engine be removed up and sideways out as opposed to the manuals up and forward method?

It just appears easer to remove one shock then move the engine up and sideways than removing the Bush bar attached to a winch coming out forwards.

Anyone tried this or am I missing something? I'm sure you would have enough room for the drive shaft spline coming together?

I have only a 9-foot ceiling in the garages and a hire trolley crane with a balancer as kit. 

Hoping to have it finished by Christmas(that's the plan). So close to finishing after two years working on it and saving for parts - it hurts....

Thanks Phil

[Philthy]

This is what inside the bell housing looks like when the plug is left in with water inside for years. I managed to get new genuine bearings, bushes and a solenoid for the starter motor and rebuilt this. Good as gold. Worth the effort and parts cost against replacement costs.   

So keep that plug out.

[BEARMAN]

To answer your question Phil, there is no reason why it can't come to the side especially as you have everything removed there. I am always a fan of doing a job the easiest possible way. I reckon you are going to have some fun separating the engine and gearbox. The input shaft is going to be rusted into the clutch plate pretty severely by the look of what the starter looks like. I would look at filling the clutch housing with diesel or kero and leaving it sit for a week or so before attemping to get it apart . And yes, leave that drain plug out unless you are fording deep water or mud and then take it back out again afterwards.

[BEARMAN]

Forgot to mention, top job you are doing there mate, she looks great.  And don't forget to put a new spigot shaft bush into the crank as well, I reckon you will need the flywheel machined and a totally new clutch and throwout bearing. How high was the water level in the housing, hopefully not up to the spigot shaft .Better save up for a proper bull bar as well, those coat hanger ones are useless in the scrub. Be good if you could post a couple of pics when you get it out!

[Philthy]

Thanks for the reply,

I’ll give it a crack getting the engine out over the passenger’s side with the shock tower removed this week if I can.

Cheers for the reminder for the spigot shaft bush I’ll will add it to the list for Mondays order.

I first started trying to use a separation lubricant that wouldn’t contaminate the friction plate. Water and detergent and letting it soak after putting the drain plug back in with the engine warm. Then held the clutch in overnight with a block of wood. No joy.

At a guess, it takes over 10lt’s to fill the bellhousing. I was only able to shoot water up the drain hole after first injecting detergent as the breather tube is the size of a straw.

The first amount of crap rust brine/fluid that came out was about 1lt but more came out later that I assume was trapped in the bottom of the pressure plate. Not to say that there was more in there years before evaporating.

Today’s plan is to remove the starter and the slave. Then “with any luck” I'll make a tool that will remove the pressure plate bolts from the flywheel while the engine and bellhousing are mated.

The plan is that I will only be fighting the friction plate from the flywheel and not the spigot shaft at the same time when separating. Dealing with the clutch with a puller and heat with the engine out of the way.

If all else fails I’ll will leave it sit for a week or so with magic oil (kerosene, transmission oil and mild phosphoric acid) just not looking forward to getting 8lt down through the breather tube…

Now, there is no plan B!

The bush bar must wait.

Ill post a couple of pics as I go.

Thanks Phil

[BEARMAN]

Thanks for the reply,

 Then “with any luck” I'll make a tool that will remove the pressure plate bolts from the flywheel while the engine and bellhousing are mated.

The plan is that I will only be fighting the friction plate from the flywheel and not the spigot shaft at the same time when separating. Dealing with the clutch with a puller and heat with the engine out of the way.

If all else fails I’ll will leave it sit for a week or so with magic oil (kerosene, transmission oil and mild phosphoric acid) just not looking forward to getting 8lt down through the breather tube…

Now, there is no plan B!

Another way to access the pressure plate bolts is to use a big holesaw or a jigsaw and cut a hole in the bottom of the bellhousing just back a little from the mating surface. You can later make a metal cover plate and drill/tap some holes to cover it. I have one here that I have done that to, will see if I can get a photo of it posted up here later. I have one arm in a sling atm so no much good at lifting stuff but will see how I go. You can partly fill the housing through the starter hole after you get it out or another way is to pull that piddly breather pipe out and drill/tap a 1/8 BSP hole there and fill it and later fit a brass breather fitting in there.

[Philthy]

This afternoon I had a poke around with a scope. 

After seeing inside, I have resigned to the soak method and accepted the fact it won’t be ready this Christmas…

The bottom of the starter port is below the spline so I made a dam to try and get the splines covered. I’ll turn the crank 180 degrees every day for a week.

Attached is some images of the pressure plate bolts from inside the Bellhousing.

Also, another photo of the flywheel, friction and pressure plate looking from the side.

I’ll get the flywheel sandblasted and painted as well as machined and replace the rest. The fork appears to be an alloy?

Thanks for your advice. All the best for the arm.

Cheers Phil

[BEARMAN]

Ouch, that looks nasty Phil. You may have to end up doing something like this

[Philthy]

Well it went better than expected.

I set it up w a 600kg pulling ratchet strap after strapping down the transmission tight on wood to the cross member.

Came out like a milk tooth. Easy as.

If it wasn’t for the cost of 40lt’s (plus) of lubricant to submerge the shaft and the month plus to marinade it and turn it 180 degrees every day perhaps I’d would recommend it.

Just happy that I that I avoided bellhousing surgery.

[Philthy]

Just for the record there is enough clearance between the sump and the bar top with this garden variety eBay el-cheapo engine crane.

Would save someone a heap of time not having to remove the bar.

[Philthy]

Nothing a bit of spit and polish cant fix here.


Flywheel is now off to the sandblaster then a coat of quality paint then a turntable reface.

Boy that friction plate was sure stuck.

[Philthy]

This is what yours could look like if you fill it with muddy water, leaving the plug in then put it in storage for over 7 years!

Well I've come this far so I'll keep chugging along.