Some Sth Vietnam snippets from documents.

[Carzee]

re phones, when it came through in late November 70 it was controlled on a per day and per unit sort of thing: eg, if you were RAAOC your unit was rostered on mondays betwenn 1300 and 1400 and thursdays between 1500 and 1630 etc. And it was USD $12 per 3 mins.

Here's a good piece showing just how many vehicles were under the wing of 2 Comp Ord Depot in Nov 67:



"Ecconomyic" .. looks like the spellchecker function on the typewriter was not handling the tropical conditions.

[Carzee]

Here's another order regards washing (refering earlier posts about vehicle washing after shipping from Australia and before shipping RTA...)

[Carzee]

Here's an interesting item from the beginning of 1971. After 6 years in theatre..



Use in convoy ambush scenario... I just can't imagine it being so useful.

[Carzee]

Here's a laugh.
I think someone got bored with typing all those orders (can be hard to read too) and in Jan '71 orders for 17 Construction we have this to break the monotony.



Some dry RAE humour surely. Right?
I remember the old cartoon, "Don't laugh this is serious".

[Tommy]

Here's another order regards washing (refering earlier posts about vehicle washing after shipping from Australia and before shipping RTA...)

Like this...

[zulu delta 534]

Smoke grenades were carried in most vehicles and were designed for use should anyone be silly enough to get caught in an ambush and request air support, and I say "silly enough" in that the average soldier could possibly throw the grenade about 30 feet or so and that smoke was then to become the target for an aircraft mounted attack. Would you want to be within 30 feet of a rocket fired from an aircraft flying over at a couple of hundred miles an hour by some 20year old hot shot jet jockey?

Each driver drew two smoke grenades of a particular colour from the Q Store prior to setting off and these were supposed to be handed back if not expended and were carried on the floor of the truck on the passengers side. They were shaped like a tin can, about the size of a baked bean can and rolled around all the time. Some trucks had about ten of these items rolling around the floor, all different colours, simply because they weren't always returned.
If you go back through the 1 Coy Cmdrs Diaries you will note on Convoy Orders a couple of extra Callsigns issued, one for "Possum" and also one for "FAC".
Possum was a 161 Recce flight aerial observation platform, usually a Cessna f/w or a Sioux chopper, and this aircraft overflew the convoys en route to and from where ever. They were flown by a member of 161 Recce Flt and often had, as an observer, a spare NCO from one of the Transport Platoons.
FAC ws the Forward Air Controllers of the US who spotted for, and led in whatever type of aerial assistance that was available at the time to assist ground troops where necessary.
In the event of an ambush, provided the convoy or packet was halted, firstly the Packet Commdr. would alert the rest of the convoy and Coy HQ of the problem, then call up Possum to investigate the problem from the air. A coloured smoke grenade would be thrown by the driver closest to the contact towards the source of contact to mark that position. Possum would call the colour of the smoke sighted and this would be confirmed by the group on the ground (to ensure that the opposition was not playing funny games).
Possum would then call up FAC who would in turn do a recce in a "bird dog" Cessna. If necessary then the FAC would himself identify the target and mark it with his own smoke and call in air support to hit that particular smoke source. This particular type of air support was comforting to know that it existed but not the type one wished to ever witness close up.

So storing smoke grenades became a problem, as they rolled around loose in all vehicles, in that there was really no where to store them. They had become a standard day by day weapon had not been previously envisaged, hence the modifications in field.

Regards
Glen

[Carzee]

Smoke grenades were carried in most vehicles and were designed for use should anyone be silly enough to get caught in an ambush and request air support, and I say "silly enough" in that the average soldier could possibly throw the grenade about 30 feet or so and that smoke was then to become the target for an aircraft mounted attack. Would you want to be within 30 feet of a rocket fired from an aircraft flying over at a couple of hundred miles an hour by some 20year old hot shot jet jockey?

Each driver drew two smoke grenades of a particular colour from the Q Store prior to setting off and these were supposed to be handed back if not expended and were carried on the floor of the truck on the passengers side. They were shaped like a tin can, about the size of a baked bean can and rolled around all the time. Some trucks had about ten of these items rolling around the floor, all different colours, simply because they weren't always returned.
If you go back through the 1 Coy Cmdrs Diaries you will note on Convoy Orders a couple of extra Callsigns issued, one for "Possum" and also one for "FAC".
Possum was a 161 Recce flight aerial observation platform, usually a Cessna f/w or a Sioux chopper, and this aircraft overflew the convoys en route to and from where ever. They were flown by a member of 161 Recce Flt and often had, as an observer, a spare NCO from one of the Transport Platoons.
FAC ws the Forward Air Controllers of the US who spotted for, and led in whatever type of aerial assistance that was available at the time to assist ground troops where necessary.
In the event of an ambush, provided the convoy or packet was halted, firstly the Packet Commdr. would alert the rest of the convoy and Coy HQ of the problem, then call up Possum to investigate the problem from the air. A coloured smoke grenade would be thrown by the driver closest to the contact towards the source of contact to mark that position. Possum would call the colour of the smoke sighted and this would be confirmed by the group on the ground (to ensure that the opposition was not playing funny games).
Possum would then call up FAC who would in turn do a recce in a "bird dog" Cessna. If necessary then the FAC would himself identify the target and mark it with his own smoke and call in air support to hit that particular smoke source. This particular type of air support was comforting to know that it existed but not the type one wished to ever witness close up.

So storing smoke grenades became a problem, as they rolled around loose in all vehicles, in that there was really no where to store them. They had become a standard day by day weapon had not been previously envisaged, hence the modifications in field.

Regards
Glen

Thx Glen.
In the unit diaries for RAASC you often see the diagram for the radio callsigns and they include Possum etc...



..but they usually have an SOP that in the event of ambush to keep moving or Do Not Stop.
Hmmm, there's that LCpl Hutley listed again as well.. so we're getting this info firsthand here. The web really is amazing.

Also, when it rained in SVN did the convoys to 1ATF etc proceed or were they generally postponed? I'm aware that "heavy rain" in SVN could last a fortnight. I'm leading to this - do the smoke grenades perform their main function, ie, position marking for aircraft (given that with low cloud they have a problem)? If there was a weather postponement of 1ATF road freight the SOP would be to up the workload for Wallaby Airlines? Right?

Here's an example of Wallaby workloads when the road to 1ATF was u/s:

[Carzee]

Here's another order regards washing (refering earlier posts about vehicle washing after shipping from Australia and before shipping RTA...)

Like this...

Where is that dam in your photos and in the earlier photos with the boy on the bonnet?
It could be a river but the edges look man-made to me. Am I wrong again?

Is it the waterpoint marked "6" on the Bus Stop mudmap?



I have lived in a coastal location in NSW which is similar terrain to what I see of Vung Tau via the photos, and I'm thinking one possible reason the Vung Tau 1ALSG site was selected in late April '65 because RAE knew their stuff regards the dunes and high water table? (I'm realise I'm assuming the dam or whatever is fresh water and the water was for general washing/showers etc).

[zulu delta 534]

The water point marked "6" on the map you show is the drinking water plant at Vung Tau, and not the dam in the previous photos that you mention.
I have pinched another map from a later date of the Nui Dat area and just in front of the RAASC /RAEME/ARMOUR (left hand side) area you will note a man made dam. This was not in existence in my time nor was the bypass road shown towards the top of shot. In my days Armour was located about where the road joins on where it is named "Pearly Gates", RAEME was over towards Luscombe (almost centre of shot) and the RAASC perimeter was between Engineers and the Bn, where the dam is now.


I am assuming that this is the area shown. If you look at the second photograph you will notice a small hill (Nui Dat) in the background. That small hill (Nui Dat itself)  was originally occupied on the western side by a Company of 5 RAR and later taken over by SAS.

As for the selection of the spot to place Vung Tau, that area was originally a swamp and used by the locals as a rubbish dump. In early 1966, a dozer operator, a tipper and a couple of Grunts were sent down from Bien Hoa to level the area that was later to become "the Bowl". The Grunts job was to pick of the locals who took pot shots at the dozer driver while he was working filling in the swamp. The area was covered by a couple of feet of sand and lo and behold around about April 1966 the Australian Logistic Force moved in. Not long after that the Monsoons hit. The bowl went under water, well half of it did at least.



This area then became known as "Lake Glendenning" named in honour of our illustrious Company Commander of the same name.



Our Ops Officer then did a deal with the Engineers to dig a channel to drain the water out. (Remember that this land was reclaimed before we got there so at the particular time the swampy nature of the history of the site was an unknown quantity - to us, the inhabitants at least!.)  This channel filled up with water rapidly, as the sad knowledge that we were below the water table began to sink in, and was from then on known as "Ferguson's Folly".




This was about the time that 1 Coy HQ decided to move to the higher side of the bowl and a 'fair swap' was made with 87 Tpt Pl who got the short end of the stick and moved from our high and dry area into the swampy end (once our tippers had filled it in, that is.)
The decisions re the area allocations were all made in Saigon, or perhaps Canberra, so I guess in their eyes all was a great success.
Some Engineer Officer possibly got a gong for his design and planning.
Where IS that sarcasm button?
Regards
Glen

[zulu delta 534]

With reference to post #117 re weather, convoys ran every day regardless of weather conditions.
The climatic conditions in South Vietnam (the Southern bit where we were) is very similar to Cairns only the seasons are reversed.
The only adverse affect the weather had was trying to keep the vehicles on the high crowned red clay roads in Nui Dat camp itself, often one would find the rear wheels slipped into the gutter but as long as you could keep the steer on the road one could still progress albeit sideways. 4 Wheel drive was a must and winches got an almost daily workout through either pulling oneself out of a bog or running the rope around trees to pull the load off the truck. (I tied my winch to a tree on more than one occasion to lift the front of the truck to change a tyre.)
The biggest problem we had was with perishables, as refrigeration was a bit of a luxury and definitely not an option on the road going vehicles at the time, and as a result most perishables were transported by Wallaby airlines or by chopper.
1 Coy Diaries possibly will give a better insight into the setting up of the two camps, especially re some of the suggestions that were put forward by those on the ground in the early days and as to how long they took to implement. 1 Coy noted the need for another Transport Platoon in the first couple of months in country and it wasn't until January 68- 12 months later- that they were in place. Similar stories re refrigeration etc. By the time 5 Coy took over most operational requirements were either "in place" or "on the way".
If you go to around about Jan 67 or so's Diaries, you might note that that L/Cpl got another hook around about then too.
Regards
Glen

[Carzee]

Thx Glen, I am working thru 1RAASC at the moment; so many convoy orders and in every 6th or 7th there is a single "new" ACCO ARN I don't yet have on the list.

I did look up Jan 67 last night and noticed where your hooks doubled

Also some stuff (could be filed under "Army Heritage") in RAE Diaries have been snipped in the last day or so

Intro of the ICB badge... Sep '70



Origin/changeover of Infantry weapon drill... Oct '70 



An interesting sitrep as 8RAR rta regarding the whole Australian mission in SVN and the results in the "Aussie" province... Nov '70

[zulu delta 534]

You will find one or two typos in those records as far as numbers go.
If you check out this post it may shorten your search somewhat.http://remlr.com/forum/index.php?topic=145.msg1114#msg1114
Regards
Glen

[Carzee]

Glen I am looking over those wetseason 'bowl' photos...
Here is a colour photo you posted some months back:

My question is about that flooded sandbagged area. Is it on the 87Tpt side of the bowl or on the 1Coy side?

[Carzee]

You will find one or two typos in those records as far as numbers go.
If you check out this post it may shorten your search somewhat.http://remlr.com/forum/index.php?topic=145.msg1114#msg1114
Regards
Glen

Yes, thx Glen. I am seeing a similar typo effect on the 17Construction papers. That unit has very good and even records, each vehicle has multiple references. So when i see a ARN with only one reference and it happens to have 5 digits identical to a frequently referenced 17C ARN... its a typo as far as I am concerned.

[zulu delta 534]

My question is about that flooded sandbagged area. Is it on the 87Tpt side of the bowl or on the 1Coy side?
[/quote]

This shot is taken from the 1 Platoon accommodation lines looking down on 1 Coy HQ and 1 Tpt Pl Admin, Tpt and Q stores.
You may note down in the bottom right corner of the shot is Maj Glendennings 1/4 to GS that he commandeered from Saigon, and the only DBG landy around. Dennis M should be very interetsed in this vehicle.
Directly over the projection box (wooden hut - looks like an outhouse) and past the trucks is a small indentation.. that is 1 Coy LAD (RAEME) and to the right of that is 87 Tpt Pl Admin, Tpt Office and Q Store.
In the black and white flooded sandbags picture, that is where 1 Coy HQ was. They then moved over to this side and 87 moved in to the flood area simply because we had the wherewithal to fill it in, or so we were led to believe.
When we first of all moved in to the bowl our offices were at the base of the sand dunes to the left side of this photograph, Ferguson's Folly ran parallel with the edge of the sand dunes and had since been filled back in. Our tent lines are on top of the dunes to the top right.
Regards
Glen