Author Topic: Haflingers in Vietnam  (Read 12785 times)

Offline fc101

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Haflingers in Vietnam
« on: March 10, 2013, 11:47:33 PM »
If you google "Haflingers in Vietnam" you get a number of hits including Wikipedia.  However they all seem to stem from one source with no other independent references.

So the simple question is - did Haflingers go to Vietnam and what is your source - verified pics would be excellent.

Thanks

Garry

Offline Diana Alan

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Re: Haflingers in Vietnam
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2013, 04:07:02 PM »
Have you got Mike Cecil's book Mud and Dust?  It is extensively researched and includes a list of most if not all vehicles in theatre.
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Offline fc101

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Re: Haflingers in Vietnam
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2013, 04:34:09 PM »
Thanks Diana - no I do not have it - googling it, it looks like a great book and the sort of document that could confirm if indeed the Haffies did go.

If any one does have a copy of the book - could they have a look and see if Haflingers in Vietnam are referred to.

Failing that I think I might head down to the National Library and have a look at their copy.

Cheers

Garry

Offline Diana Alan

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Re: Haflingers in Vietnam
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2013, 04:36:07 PM »
Yes I do have a copy, but not at work.
REMLR 240.
Perentie FFR 50-422, SIII FFR 30-146, SIIA GunBuggy 112-726, Mk3 Inter 170-437, ex-SADF SIIB/SIII Radio Relay,
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Offline fc101

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Re: Haflingers in Vietnam
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2013, 05:11:01 PM »
If you could have look when you are able I would appreciate it - not after any details just if it is there or not.  If it was I will go down to the library and get all the details from  the book myself.

Cheers

Garry

Offline FFRMAN

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Re: Haflingers in Vietnam
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2013, 08:19:42 PM »
HI,

just checked in the book and they are not listed in the appendix of vehicle in Vietnam.

regards
Lots...............
VMVC 251,

Tommy

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Re: Haflingers in Vietnam
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2013, 08:45:50 PM »
G'day Garry

I presume you are referring to this site - http://tdc.haflinger-4wd.com/types/auarmy-haf.php

These three photos show Haflinger in Australian service. Photo 'Haf3' shows 101-850 and 101-852. 101-850 is extant in the Steyr-Puch museum.

The caption to the photos states "By the way: Australian Army Haflingers were also used in Vietnam. Helicopters carried the vehicles to remote jungle areas, where they had to transport ammunition."

Why not contact the author (Constantin Kiesling) here - http://tdc.haflinger-4wd.com/contact.php as he may have further details.

Another person (Ferraroni Massimo) posted this on the ADGIES website...http://www.adgies.net/nov2010.html

"G' day,

I write you from Italy to ask you some news on the vehicles used by the Austaralia Army in Vietman.

In 1966 Australia Army buy the 50 off-roads Haflinger of the Steyr-Puch Austriaca (you see list http://www..remlr.com/ARN/ARNs_haflinger.php ), in the various searches conducted by our club (Haflinger club Italy www.haflingerclubitalia.it ), we have discovered that some of these Haflingers have perhaps gone with you to Vietnam.

I attach photo of a Haflinger Australia Army.

I ask if this news is true and if it is possible to find some photos of the Haflingers in Vietnam.

I thank you for your attention and I want to excuse me for my English, but I use an electronic translator!!

Aspect your news, and I send you the more kindest regards from Italy.

Ferraroni Massimo
Email address via his website"
« Last Edit: March 11, 2013, 09:49:39 PM by Tommy »

Offline fc101

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Re: Haflingers in Vietnam
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2013, 09:48:39 PM »
Thanks FFRMAN - if it is not listed in that book, given the author works at the AWM then I think we can reasonably assume Haffies did not go to Vietnam.

Tommy - I know of both the people you refer - Ferraroni also came to the conclusion that Haffies did not go to Vietnam as he also drew a blank.  Before I go back to Constantin I would like to have some evidence one way or the other.

Those pics you put up were all taken in Aust except for the bottom one which was taken in an Austrian (not Australian) museum.

Thanks for all your efforts.

Cheers

Garry
« Last Edit: March 11, 2013, 09:53:20 PM by garrycol »

Offline Diana Alan

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Re: Haflingers in Vietnam
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2013, 10:45:56 PM »
Just home from work found my copy and now I find I'm too late with the info.  :'(

I am wondering about the Italian guys and whether they were given information on the M274 mechanical mule that were used in Vietnam usually termed Military Mule the M274 a one man 4WD machine smaller than the Haffie that was used to transport amunition.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Military_M274_Truck,_Platform,_Utility_1/2_Ton,_4X4
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Re: Haflingers in Vietnam
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2013, 10:59:20 PM »
Thanks FFRMAN - if it is not listed in that book, given the author works at the AWM then I think we can reasonably assume Haffies did not go to Vietnam.

Tommy - I know of both the people you refer - Ferraroni also came to the conclusion that Haffies did not go to Vietnam as he also drew a blank.  Before I go back to Constantin I would like to have some evidence one way or the other.

Those pics you put up were all taken in Aust except for the bottom one which was taken in an Austrian (not Australian) museum.

Thanks for all your efforts.

Cheers

Garry

After trolling the net to find more info, it became apparent that there was a lot of information 'cut and pasting' going on :(. The same information, word for word, was appearing in numerous forums etc. They all say the following "The Australian army bought some and used them successfully in Vietnam.". It may be a case of 'misinformation handball' from one person onto the next.

Diana could be right in suggesting that the Mule may be the culprit as the US Army used these in large numbers for ammo carting. Looks similar too.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2013, 11:01:35 PM by Tommy »

Offline fc101

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Re: Haflingers in Vietnam
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2013, 12:02:43 AM »
Thanks Diana - your information pointed me/us in the right direction and I appreciate your efforts.

Yes - it does seem that everything on the net does seem to come from the TDC links.  However I have sighted a recent post on another forum where Aussie Vets do recall seeing 8 Haflingers landing in the back of a Herc - I now wonder if what they saw was some Mules and the years have faded that memory to be Haffies.

Also taken from another forum - an abstract from an evalution of the Haflinger compared to the Mule

“Accession Number : AD0283254

Title : EVALUATION OF TRUCK, 1/2-TON, 4X4, HAFLINGER (AUSTRIAN)

Corporate Author : ARMY ARMOR BOARD FORT KNOX KY

Report Date : 10 JUL 1962

Pagination or Media Count : 1

Abstract : Test experience with the Haflinger generally parallels that previously encountered with other foreign vehicles. From a performance standpoint, the vehicles are equal to and, in some areas, exceed comparable US vehicles. From the standpoint of the durability and reliability required of utility vehicles they are unacceptable. It must also be recognized that their use would mean the addition of nonstandard parts, special tools, and much more comprehensive maintenance publications then are normally available. The principal advantages of the Haflinger over the M274 lie in its easier handling, smoother ride, and slightly greater speed. These features are achieved at the cost of a heavier, more sophisticated vehicle. It is questionable whether such design features would be justified in an austere, special-purpose vehicle such as the M274. (Author)

Offline fc101

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Re: Haflingers in Vietnam
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2013, 12:38:23 AM »
On a side issue - I wonder about the relevance of the Seaking (looks like a UH-3H of the US Marine Corps) on the front cover of  "Mud and   Dust" to the content of the book.


Offline Diana Alan

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Re: Haflingers in Vietnam
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2013, 01:04:27 AM »
It may well be, IIRC at the time the RAN were still using Wessex and the Aussies otherwise were using UH1 Iraquois, the US provided most of the heavy lift capability.

Wikipedia amended.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2013, 01:48:29 AM by Diana Alan »
REMLR 240.
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Offline Phoenix

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Re: Haflingers in Vietnam
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2013, 01:43:26 PM »
I wonder if the research for mud and dust covered vehicles shipped to Vietnam (Navy Records) and did not include anything carried over by the RAAF in Hercs etc ??
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Offline Diana Alan

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Re: Haflingers in Vietnam
« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2013, 02:01:01 PM »
I'm not sure what sources Mike used, but he was the senior curator of military vehicles in the AWM at the time.  He has also been able to inform me if particular ARN are recorded as going to Vietnam.  It is where I had confirmation of Numpty's buggy going.

Perhaps it's worth someone popping over to MLU and asking him the question.
REMLR 240.
Perentie FFR 50-422, SIII FFR 30-146, SIIA GunBuggy 112-726, Mk3 Inter 170-437, ex-SADF SIIB/SIII Radio Relay,
Army Trailers: No5 x 2, W/S x 2, PT1-1.2, Horndraulic ATR dog trailer.
Civilian: MY85 RRc HiLine 4.6, MY51 ex-RACQ 80", MY91 Defender/Reynolds Boughton 6x6, MY12 D4 SDV6