Braking with Tradition

[cookey]

   Every time I drive one of my ex-army Land Rovers I am reminded how the braking ability is just not up to modern day traffic requirements. For many years I have entertained the thought of updating and improving the braking system, primarily by fitting front disc brakes and reducing the required pedal effort.
Like many Land Rover owners, I have read lots of suggestions in the various forums, including that the original brakes are fine if well maintained. Unfortunately, this opinion does not interest me in the least, as they are simply not up to my requirements or expectations. If you are satisfied with your original brakes then good for you, but please do not be critical of someone wishing to improve the safety of their vehicle to meet modern day traffic and driving conditions.
I have considered various after-market kits, which tend to be expensive (especially after adding international freight charges), and may also incorporate custom castings and/or calipers and rotors, which may be difficult (or perhaps impossible) to replace if the need arises. Some of them are also restricted to using a certain type or size of wheel rim.
My goals were to use the best calipers possible, with large ventilated rotors, at a reasonable cost, do all the fabrication work myself, and maintain the ability to be able to fit original Series wheels as well as 15 inch after-market wheels.
I soon found that it was quite a challenge to fit what I wanted into the very limited space available. After considering a great many possibilities and many efforts to fit what seemed like ideal combinations, I have finally settled on a combination that I am happy with. This incorporates large ventilated rotors and aluminium 4 piston calipers.
As calipers require a higher fluid pressure than the original drum brakes, a 8 inch dual diaphram booster was fitted together with a new Series 3 dual circuit master cylinder. To control rear wheel lock up with the extra boost, the rear brake cylinders were reduced in diameter to compensate.
I found a little spare time over Xmas and finally fitted the whole system to a Series 3 FFR. Over the past few weeks I have been bedding in the brakes and doing a few other odds and ends while waiting for a Certified Engineer to inspect the vehicle.
Well, the Engineer finally drove and tested  everything today and has given his approval. He was actually very impressed with the stopping distances and pedal feel, and the manner in which this conversion was approached.

Cookey

[Carzee]

Any more pictures Cookey, especially of the ventilated disc? I think I'll do a video for youtube for you, if you want, I think a little video would help (and it costs nothing to do them).

[juddy]

Excellent read, and something I have been thinking about for a while, more so for the wife to drive.  Out of Interest were all the parts you obtained standard off the shelf items? and what was the cost for this little lot? or there abouts?

Did you consider some of those well know conversion kits that are out there? and your reasons for not purchasing one?

How long did the conversion take to do?

[cookey]

More photo's and a build up report to follow.

All parts used are readily obtainable HOWEVER some machining of individual components involved.

Cost will depend on vehicle model and components needed.

Cookey

[Carzee]

"Well, the Engineer finally drove and tested everything today and has given his approval. He was actually very impressed with the stopping distances and pedal feel, and the manner in which this conversion was approached."

I forgot to add a big congratulations. Excellent news Cookey and well done. To say the least, the completion of your project to the Approved stage takes some doing and dedication.

[Minikeg]

Well done, Ive heard of this and have looked forward to see/hearing more

next stop, abs? 

[Diana Alan]

I've been watching this process first hand over many weeks and have to say that Cookey went to extrordinary lengths to get the right combination.  Every week there was an increasing pile of rejected components that failed by any number of parameters, not in workmanship but that the comercially manufacted part could not be adapted to the task properly. Unfortunately I'd been sworn to secrecy

We have all seen various kits on the internet including one local attempt with the ugliest adaptor plate I've ever seen.  Cookey's manufactured parts, mainly the calliper mounting bracket is an elegant design that bolts directly in place of the original brake backing plate. 

More importantly upon driving the vehicle it is refreshing to have brakes that pull you up in a straight line and are responsive to your brake effort, instead of stamp and hope.

For those considering the conversion I can only say good things in my wholehearted recommendation of Cookeys work.

Well done Gary!

Diana

[cookey]

Any more pictures Cookey, especially of the ventilated disc? I think I'll do a video for youtube for you, if you want, I think a little video would help (and it costs nothing to do them).

Hi Ross, a video would be fantastic. Will talk to you next weekend. Any idea when you will be arriving? I will be home Friday night if you wish to get an early start on Sat. You are welcome any time.

Cookey

[cookey]

I've been watching this process first hand over many weeks and have to say that Cookey went to extrordinary lengths to get the right combination.  Every week there was an increasing pile of rejected components that failed by any number of parameters, not in workmanship but that the comercially manufacted part could not be adapted to the task properly. Unfortunately I'd been sworn to secrecy

We have all seen various kits on the internet including one local attempt with the ugliest adaptor plate I've ever seen.  Cookey's manufactured parts, mainly the calliper mounting bracket is an elegant design that bolts directly in place of the original brake backing plate. 

More importantly upon driving the vehicle it is refreshing to have brakes that pull you up in a straight line and are responsive to your brake effort, instead of stamp and hope.

For those considering the conversion I can only say good things in my wholehearted recommendation of Cookeys work.

Well done Gary!

Diana

Hi Diana,  thanks for your kind words and support. Since you drove the FFR  I have changed to a better pad compound, with even more impressive results. I am quite amazed at the braking ability of 7-50x16 Olympic Steelflex tyres. Way beyond my modest expectations. The Engineer did several consecutive stops from 80 km/h, with each stop resulting in a decreased stopping distance. The longest being the first stop at 27 metres. Quite impressive.
You'll have to try it out again.
Once again, thanks for your support.

Cookey

[Chazza]

Top work Cookie! I always love articles about technical innovation 

Reading between the lines - are you going to produce your conversion commercially?

Cheers Chazza

[Diana Alan]

Hi Chazza

Hope I'm not talking out of turn.

Cookey is off on his other job today, but I am almost positive that Gary will provide the conversion commercially, either as a drive in drive out basis with engineer's certificate or on an exchange basis.  Cookey will have to discuss price, but it will come as a completely assembled swivel with new bearings and the replacement booster. 

Just calculating things in my head, I cant imagine it will be a cheap price, there are 2 new DBA rotors that have to be machined plus re-drilled and the pair of 4 piston callipers which need to be purchased new or overhauled second hand.  The front hubs have to be machined, drilled and tapped to accept the rotors. The calliper mounting bracket has to be machined and an original drum machined into a spacer to correct the track.  Then new Timken bearings, new seals and everything has to be setup.

I do know that it will be able to be fitted to both SIII and SIIa, but SIII or late SIIa hubs with press in studs will need to be supplied and not all swivel housings are appropriate for the conversion.

Diana

[bronzie66610]

Hi all and Diana

My son is about to go down that course on the 2B. He has fitted Subaru discs etc. on his Hilux and Engineer was impressed.
On the 2B he is looking at Discovery 1 setup from the banjo housing out. He will keep you informed on progress.
David & Jamie

[Diana Alan]

Hi David and Jamie

A lot of us have considered using RRc or Disco swivels however a number of obstacles come your way.  Firstly will be the halfshafts, the Disco is a CV front end the S2B had uni joints.  Barry Ward at Hi-Tough has brooches to cut ENV splines but would need the other specs.

The second obstacle you'll come across is the position of the track rod behind the housing and below the diff pinion in the same alignment as the spring pack.

My SADF SIIB has already been converted to CV front end (the reason that Barry now has the ENV brooches) but I'll be going Cookey's design.  It would have been soo much easier to use the RRc stuff, Gary actually started at that point, but the difficulties mentioned above and 5 bolt drive flanges would have been a give away for a military Landy.

Diana

[juddy]

Hi Chazza

Hope I'm not talking out of turn.

Cookey is off on his other job today, but I am almost positive that Gary will provide the conversion commercially, either as a drive in drive out basis with engineer's certificate or on an exchange basis.  Cookey will have to discuss price, but it will come as a completely assembled swivel with new bearings and the replacement booster. 

Just calculating things in my head, I cant imagine it will be a cheap price, there are 2 new DBA rotors that have to be machined plus re-drilled and the pair of 4 piston callipers which need to be purchased new or overhauled second hand.  The front hubs have to be machined, drilled and tapped to accept the rotors. The calliper mounting bracket has to be machined and an original drum machined into a spacer to correct the track.  Then new Timken bearings, new seals and everything has to be setup.

I do know that it will be able to be fitted to both SIII and SIIa, but SIII or late SIIa hubs with press in studs will need to be supplied and not all swivel housings are appropriate for the conversion.

Diana

Keep me posted if there is a kit available in the future.  How is this kit different from the following ones

http://www.heystee-automotive.com/onlineshop/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=38&products_id=60

The proper link page http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/discBrake.htm

Series Land Rover front disc brake conversion kits


In alphabetical  order:

Bearmarch kit:

   These are out of production but you may occasionally find someone selling an old set on ebay or a boot sale.  The Bearmarch disc brake kit was an imitation of the early Santana Girling system and was made in Iran.  The quality of the imitation Girling Santana brakes is reported to be low.

 

Heystee Automotive Components conversion kit - Formally T.I. Console.

Pre-2010 disc brake conversion kits are based upon the disc brakes that come on the Spanish built Santana PS10 (Iveco Massif).  The PS10 is basically a Land Rover clone so is in the same weight range as a Series LR.  The brake calipers are made by Girling.  The front disc brakes are a 2 piston vented system.  The rear system has the same wheel hubs but slightly thinner discs (non ventilated) and smaller calipers. This is also a straight fit without modifications just like the front ventilated system.

A custom back plate is bolted onto the swivel housing in place of the drum brake back plate and the PS10 Girling brakes bolt to the plate.  There are no grinding or modifications of existing components required. Wheel spacers are required to fit the Series wheel though

As the Santana (Massif) is not available in North America, North American's would need to source replacement parts directly from Heystee Automotive Components or an IVECO dealer.  Santana has been taken over by IVECO and the Santana PS10 has been renamed the " IVECO Massif".  Americans can usually have pads & rotors shipped by air to them from Europe in less than a week.  Alternatively, if quick repairs are important, one can keep a backup set of pads and rotors on the shelf.  IVECO has ceased production of the disc brake components used in this conversion so this kit is NLA.



 

2010 and newer Heystee disc brake conversions have a new custom swivel housing and hub which allows the use of off the shelf Land Rover Defender disc brake components without an adaptor plate. When IVECO ceased production of the disc brakes for the Santana (Massif) Heystee Automotive set about developing a custom conversion that would make use of easily obtained Defender brake components.  Fortunately this kit allows North Americans to source consumable brake components locally.

   
"All parts mount onto the Series Land Rover axle without any modification or adaptors. All threads, seals and gaskets are identical to the original Land Rover units. The original wheels fit without any spacer or modification. With this system all maintenance parts are Land Rover, no need to source brake pads, caliper parts of odd-ball vehicles or modify "alien" rotor discs. Just contact your local Land Rover parts dealer when you need replacement." Quote from Heystee Automotive Components web site.

 


Castings for the Heystee Automotive front disc brake conversion.
In the Heystee disc brake conversion kit you get the castings shown above, 2 ventilated Defender rotors, 2 Defender Calipers plus all the bolts and washers required to mount the rotors and calipers.

 

 

Timm Cooper conversion kit by ROAM OFFROAD:

  After being unavailable for several years this highly regarded disc brake conversion kit is once again available.  This conversion is manufacture red and sold exclusively through ROAM OFFROAD.  ROAM OFFROAD has elected to offer only the custom parts needed to make the conversion and not ship a complete conversion kit because each customer has unique needs and preferred sources for the stock Land Rover parts needed to complete the conversion.  Note that all the castings and machine work for this conversion are made in the USA and are of the highest American quality.

Here is what you get with a 4 wheel disc brake conversion:


All the parts used in this kit are manufactured in the USA. Castings are from stronger than factory stock materials

 

Below is a swivel housing assembled on a truck ready for the hubs to be mounted.

     

 

 

A quick way to tell Timm Cooper's and Heystee Automotive Component's Defender based disc brake kits apart from a quick glance.

Timm Cooper designed his conversion kit using a single swivel housing casting for both sides of the vehicle.  The casting is machined differently depending upon which side it is intended to be used for.  So a quick glance at the housing will show two sets of caliper mounting ears.  One machined at the back and one not.  The Heystee Automotive Components conversion uses two different  swivel housing castings each designed for a single side. So there is only a single caliper mounting bracket  on each housing vs, two per housing.



Torrel Industries conversion kit:

Sold as a complete kit through Rocky Mountain Expedition Equipment Ltd.   Call 604 913 7910 and ask for Jaremy for current information.

This 11 inch vented brake kit was engineered by Mel Brown and uses common (North America) AC Delco dual piston calipers, pads and rubber hoses.  This is a 2 piston system that works with Series master cylinders  They suggest that the Series III dual circuit power brake system be used.  The back plate that mounts to the swivel housing and the hub are custom parts.  The rotor is a GM rotor that has the centre machined to a larger diameter.  Other than those 3 parts, everything else is standard off the shelf GM brake parts or Land Rover hub parts.  These components were used on high performance models of the Chevy Lumina, Monte Carlo, Pontiac Grand Prix, Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme and Buick Regal.  They recommend telling your part dealer that you need parts for a 2001 Chevy Lumina.

A step by step description of a my front disc brake conversion using the Torrel Industries conversion kit


 

Zeus conversion kit:

Zeus Engineering supplies front & rear disc brake conversion kits for Series I, II, III including Salisbury rear axles.   It is a 4 piston vented system for both front and rear brakes that is bolt on requiring no special modifications.The conversion requires fitting 16" 6J wheels to accommodate the 4 pot stainless steel calipers   Zeus makes their own Calipers.  They do not use Land Rover disc brake calipers.  The kit is featured on their web site.

As you guys have done lots of research, you will have the pros and cons for these units I hope..


 

[Diana Alan]

The main problem is that most of the O/S kits require alternative wheel rims.  So your Aussie mil vehicle will be an obvious conversion

The Hastee kit costs just under $A1,700 before you ship from Holland.  It uses a special swivel housing and special hubs, and the standard (narrow) Land Rover ventilated rotors, it also doesn't change the inadequate OEM booster.

Both the Hastee and Roam kits use special aftermarket housings which may or may not be available remember that Haystee is a remanufactured TI Console kit.

The Roam kit costs $A1,400 before you ship from the US it also doesn't change the inadequate OEM booster.

The Torrell kit only uses 2 piston callipers.

None of them keep the dollars in Australia.  All of them will require individual engineering of each converted vehicle (no type approval/no arrangement with an Australian Certified Engineer as with Gary's)