Author Topic: Inner tube size/part number/input?  (Read 3591 times)

Offline tc_s1

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Inner tube size/part number/input?
« on: September 27, 2017, 01:07:33 PM »
So on the 91' 110 GS the front, driver side tube went flat. I pulled it out and found the culprit right at the stem as I was pumping up the tyre to get back on the road. Curious thing though, I couldn't find anything on the tube with a size or part number. Was thinking to replace it instead of running tubeless but wanted to see what those more experienced here might have to say from their experiences and whether anyone could provide the standard size/part number for a re-order perhaps, should I go that way?
Scratching my teenage itch, now that I'm in my midlife crisis...
'87 110 County 4BD1+T+LP (Godzilla)
'88 110 Perentie Cargo 4BD1+T+LP (Thing1)
'91 110 Perentie Cargo 4BD1+T+LP (Thing2)

Offline Sixty

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Re: Inner tube size/part number/input?
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2017, 04:54:15 PM »
A standard or hd 750x16 tube  ;)
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Al

Offline BEARMAN

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Re: Inner tube size/part number/input?
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2017, 06:32:50 PM »
Get some TR15 tubeless valve stems and forget about flats. :)
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Offline tc_s1

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Re: Inner tube size/part number/input?
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2017, 05:23:55 AM »
Thank you. So from an opinion perspective, drop the tubes and go with just the tyres? I've never run on tubes before, but was wondering if they would be better for airing down and up while having protection from the outer tyres themselves?
Scratching my teenage itch, now that I'm in my midlife crisis...
'87 110 County 4BD1+T+LP (Godzilla)
'88 110 Perentie Cargo 4BD1+T+LP (Thing1)
'91 110 Perentie Cargo 4BD1+T+LP (Thing2)

Offline 303Gunner

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Re: Inner tube size/part number/input?
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2017, 08:40:53 AM »
Tubes are not better than tubeless for airing down, as the bagged sidewalls will rub more on the deflated tube, the friction causing hotspots that will  cause the tube to fail. But although Perentie rims will accept a tubeless tire and be fine at full pressures, they don't have "safety beads" on the rim designed to hold the tire in place at lower pressures, and are less than optimal.

When tubeless tires are fitted to perentie rims and run at low pressures, the tire bead can unseat from the rim causing instant air loss. Not really a problem at 4wding/rockcrawling speeds (besides needing to change a flat tire in the mud!), but potentially dangerous at road speeds.

In Australia, some jurisdictions ban the fitting of tires to "tubed" rims (ie without safety beads) without inner tubes. You need to check your local laws in the US, as it may not be permissable to fit tubeless tires to your Perentie rims. You might be required to change to later Defender/Discovery rims with safety beads or aftermarket wheels.

Offline Mick_Marsh

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Re: Inner tube size/part number/input?
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2017, 09:23:51 AM »
In Australia, some jurisdictions ban the fitting of tires to "tubed" rims (ie without safety beads) without inner tubes.
Do you have any links to the government legislation involving the ban?
What I have discovered to date suggests it is an urban myth.
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29-417 101 GS, 30-248 101 Rapier Tractor. 30-238 101
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Offline dugite

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Re: Inner tube size/part number/input?
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2017, 07:31:45 PM »
In Australia, some jurisdictions ban the fitting of tires to "tubed" rims (ie without safety beads) without inner tubes.
Do you have any links to the government legislation involving the ban?
What I have discovered to date suggests it is an urban myth.

urban myths have a habit of being perpetuated - even by tyre sellers
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Offline 303Gunner

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Re: Inner tube size/part number/input?
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2017, 08:44:37 PM »
It was in ADR20, but this was cancelled in 2003 and replaced by the general safety recommendations of ADR42. ADR42 does not make any stipulations regarding tubed rims with tubeless tyres.

However, tyre fitting businesses have been banned by their Liability Insurers from fitting tyres to tubed rims without using tubes on the grounds that ADR20 set the precedent that the practice is unsafe and exposes the business to undue liability. Ask your local tyre fitter if they will fit tubeless tyres to tubeless rims, and they probably won't (and quite a high proportion won't. I only know of one place that still does, and that is only after you tell them it is for an "old farm trailer" or such, not for road use.), they will cite liability insurance as the cause for the ban. Despite the practice being perfectly within the letter of the law, depending on their level of interaction with their insurers, most will not be willing to void their policy cover just to please an insistant customer.

One tyre fitting business I am familiar with had the unfortunate experience of a workplace accident that killed an employee, and were dragged through the wringer by their insurers and Workcover, and today are exemplar in following rules. You know the lines painted across the workshop doors that say "No admittance to workshop"? Most places treat that as optional depending on your attitude. Cross that when dropping line off tyres and the whole place stops work like a wild west saloon when the black hat walks in, until you comply with the shouts to get back outside. They've got the message good and proper. What the insurer says, goes.

Offline Mick_Marsh

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Re: Inner tube size/part number/input?
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2017, 01:32:56 AM »
Interesting.
I'll refresh my knowledge of those ADRs this weekend.

I have discussed this at length with the local tyre guy (who can't give any definitive answer) and another Perentie owner who has done quite a bit of research on this. The story goes like this:
The tyre and rim association gives the nod on how tyres are fitted in Australia. They say it's up to the manufacturer to say how their tyres are fitted to rims. Michelin say the XZL tyres can be fitted ti JJ rims, ROH Australia say the AYG8108 rim is a JJ rim.
Therefore, the Michelin XZL tyres can be fitted tubeless to AYG8108 rims.
I had some information sent to me in an email.

If any of that statement is wrong, please let me know who said it was wrong. My brothers mate who drinks at the pub with a guy who used to fit tyres is not a reliable source.

As I have mentioned before, I have some old Mercs and Mokes that do not have the beads on the rims. The tyre fitters I have taken these vehicles to do not bat an eyelid when they put tubeless tyres without tubes on them. Ask them to put tubes in them and it's "Nah, mate. They're tubeless tyres" Except for the 100" Stage 1. That tyre fitter begrudgingly put tubes in when I pointed out the "Tube Type" marking on the side wall of the tyres he had just sold me. Well, he had quoted me a fitted price and I guess the added cost of the tubes eat into his profit.
REMLR # 310, MVCA # 364, 101 Club # 2188, MHG #101
29-417 101 GS, 30-248 101 Rapier Tractor. 30-238 101
34-597 Crump & Cornish 1 ton Cargo Trailer
RT21 RAAF Track Tactical Trailer, 234-671 RAAF Track Tactical Trailer

Offline 303Gunner

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Re: Inner tube size/part number/input?
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2017, 10:39:44 AM »
Michelin say the XZL tyres can be fitted ti JJ rims, ROH Australia say the AYG8108 rim is a JJ rim.
Therefore, the Michelin XZL tyres can be fitted tubeless to AYG8108 rims.
I had some information sent to me in an email.

If any of that statement is wrong, please let me know who said it was wrong.
I hope that email wasn't from ROH! The AYG8108 is not a JJ rim. ROH have plainly stamped them 6.00Fx16, and this is also stated in the User Handbook and Tyre Placard. The Split rims are 6.00Gx16. Both of these profiles are flat 5 degree bead seats. Neither are JJ tubeless profiles.

For detailed drawings of the various rim profile dimensions, you will have to order your own copy of 2017 Tyre and Rim Assn Standards Manual.

Offline Mick_Marsh

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Re: Inner tube size/part number/input?
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2017, 11:53:31 AM »
Thanks. I'll get that back to the fellow that did the research.
REMLR # 310, MVCA # 364, 101 Club # 2188, MHG #101
29-417 101 GS, 30-248 101 Rapier Tractor. 30-238 101
34-597 Crump & Cornish 1 ton Cargo Trailer
RT21 RAAF Track Tactical Trailer, 234-671 RAAF Track Tactical Trailer

Offline Mick_Marsh

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Re: Inner tube size/part number/input?
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2017, 09:17:25 PM »
Yep. I got the story a little wrong.
Michelin lists the F type rim as an optional for fitting the tubeless tyre.
REMLR # 310, MVCA # 364, 101 Club # 2188, MHG #101
29-417 101 GS, 30-248 101 Rapier Tractor. 30-238 101
34-597 Crump & Cornish 1 ton Cargo Trailer
RT21 RAAF Track Tactical Trailer, 234-671 RAAF Track Tactical Trailer

Offline tc_s1

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Re: Inner tube size/part number/input?
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2017, 09:39:34 AM »
So to be safe (family does ride in this and it is often on the road), make sure I have an FF type rim if I am running without tubes. Otherwise, make sure I replace the tube in the one tyre currently running without. Is this correct? The shop here said they don't ever put tubes back in these days if the rims match the bead they expect and they hold air........which is only (perhaps) slightly more reliable than my 'brother's mate's friend who he drinks with down the pub who used to be in the tyre business'.
Scratching my teenage itch, now that I'm in my midlife crisis...
'87 110 County 4BD1+T+LP (Godzilla)
'88 110 Perentie Cargo 4BD1+T+LP (Thing1)
'91 110 Perentie Cargo 4BD1+T+LP (Thing2)

Offline Mick_Marsh

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Re: Inner tube size/part number/input?
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2017, 01:37:14 PM »
Me, I run tubes. I know several who don't.
Those who don't seem to have less tyre issues than me.
REMLR # 310, MVCA # 364, 101 Club # 2188, MHG #101
29-417 101 GS, 30-248 101 Rapier Tractor. 30-238 101
34-597 Crump & Cornish 1 ton Cargo Trailer
RT21 RAAF Track Tactical Trailer, 234-671 RAAF Track Tactical Trailer

Offline dugite

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Re: Inner tube size/part number/input?
« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2017, 07:32:12 PM »
Hi tc_s1, see reply #2 above
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