Bobbed 6x6 Air Defence into Wide Cab RSFV

[PeteFox]

G'day All
I'm thinking about shortening my Air Defence 6x6 and turning into what would be virtually be a wide wide bodied RFSV.
I bought a 6x6 basically because I saw one in the 90's ( I had a Defender then) and thought that wide cab was brilliant and was what a Defender should have had. I'm 6'4" and the Defender sized cab just doesn't cut it. The 6x6 turning circle has become a PITA with some of the tracks into our farm requiring a couple of goes on the sharp turns. In the wet, stopping to make the turns is not an option, so,I've had the tractor out a few times rescuing a bogged 6x6. Ouch, embarrassing, even if only the kookaburras are laughing.
I'm planning to remove the rear axle and shorten the tray/chassis so the overhang is the same and the spare tyre will be in a similar place. The rear of the spring will require a new shackle mount and the undercount drawer would be moved forward.
This brings up a weight issue, as the 6x6 weighs 4000kg bare. I could lose maybe a couple of hundred kilos by removing the diff and springs, maybe another hundred  with the chassis and tray shortening, so,I would be looking for a GVM of 4000kg. This would be unusual as most 4x4's have around a 3500kg GVM but would be within the vehicle's capability.
I'm just putting this out to REMLR members for comment so that some wiser heads may see something that I haven't. It will be hard to put it back if it went pear shaped.
Pete

[dugite]

I guess that this idea has passed through many minds. I think it could work for your use and any concern about  ADRs and GVMs is not necessary if you're not trying to register it. The low geared diffs again are not a problem for farm use, maybe even an asset.

I imagine the practical carrying capacity would be quite impressive (forgetting about GVMs etc).

One caution I can think of, if it is relevant, is that the market value will (most likely) be reduced (maybe to 0).

A lot of work though ....

I look forward to reading others'  comments with interest

[PeteFox]

Dugite
It will have to be registered, so a modification plate will be necessary
Pete

[Mick_Marsh]

Might I suggest you get a GS variant and bobtail that.

[BadCo.]

Never mind the naysayers, this is an interesting idea for a build and I look forward to seeing how it progresses. It is after all your truck, which you can do what ever you like to, to suit your needs. Remember, it is a Land Rover!


EDIT: For Cohesion

[THE BOOGER]

While the OP does ask for comments please keep them civil and not personal, we have no particular rules about modifying and ex-mil veh if you dont like that dont read the thread

[FFRMAN]

I'm interested to see the end result, I don't think anyone has done this yet, interesting concept, might be very good mod!

cheers
Scott

[Dervish]

This brings up a weight issue, as the 6x6 weighs 4000kg bare. I could lose maybe a couple of hundred kilos by removing the diff and springs, maybe another hundred  with the chassis and tray shortening, so,I would be looking for a GVM of 4000kg. This would be unusual as most 4x4's have around a 3500kg GVM but would be within the vehicle's capability.

Have a look at the Data summary:

d. Maximum Loading (w/winch):
(1) Front Axle ... 1 650 kg
(2) Intermediate Axle ... 1 950 kg
(3) Rear Axle ... 1 950 kg
(4) Total ... 5 550 kg

Take away the rear diff and you get a total max loading of 3600kg, which is somewhere around what it would weigh. For the vehicle's footprint and fuel consumption, a 6x6 already has a rather small payload; the last thing you'd want to do is make it smaller (the payload).

[Mick_Marsh]

This brings up a weight issue, as the 6x6 weighs 4000kg bare. I could lose maybe a couple of hundred kilos by removing the diff and springs, maybe another hundred  with the chassis and tray shortening, so,I would be looking for a GVM of 4000kg. This would be unusual as most 4x4's have around a 3500kg GVM but would be within the vehicle's capability.

Have a look at the Data summary:

d. Maximum Loading (w/winch):
(1) Front Axle ... 1 650 kg
(2) Intermediate Axle ... 1 950 kg
(3) Rear Axle ... 1 950 kg
(4) Total ... 5 550 kg

Take away the rear diff and you get a total max loading of 3600kg, which is somewhere around what it would weigh. For the vehicle's footprint and fuel consumption, a 6x6 already has a rather small payload; the last thing you'd want to do is make it smaller (the payload).

An Air Defence has a tare of 3980kg.
You would have to lose the big box on the back to start with.
To the first axle, the wheelbase is around 120". What wheelbase do you intend to bob it to? You would have to shorten the wheel base to improve the turning circle.
I'd suggest you pick up a wreck from the auctions and start from there.

[PeteFox]

According to Land Rover docs I have ( see extract below) the 6x6 has the following axle weights
Front 1750kg
Rear 2050 kg each

The front axle has a design limit loading of 1900 kg and I may be able to get a mod plate for this. See extract below.

A cab chassis bare with full fuel,and water weighs 2600kg, lose say 300kg  in rear axle and chassis and I have a starting point of 2300kg which gives me 1650 kg to play with.

That would give a theoretical GVM of 3950kg. I intend to pickup my Perentie from the farm this week so I'll check the VIN plate for the exact info.

6x6bobbed wheelbase would be 3040mm
Standard 110 wheelbase is 2794mm
Standard 130 wheelbase is 3226mm

So my proposal is a bit closer to a 110 than a 130 in wheelbase. A 130 has a turning circle of 15.1m, which is 2m less than a 6x6. I'm thinking that there will be a penalty in the turning circle for the wide track but given the wheelbase is shorter I think the turning circle will be about the same as a 130.

I'm not about to lose the the tray but I propose to shorten it by 900 mm which is 28.5% of it's length and about the same % in weight, I reckon about 200kg. The two side cabinets will go, about 120 kg for the two.

I'm even prepared to lose the winch and bull bar to lighten it enough if I have to.

As for the naysayers, everyone is entitled to their viewpoint, so if you really want to this fine example of military history preserved, PM me and make me an offer to buy it. I'm guessing you won't.
This mod may or may not reduce its value, but a 1000 or so 6x6's restored to original condition parked in sheds won't do much for their value either.

Pete

[P6X6]

My two cents worth, bloody go for it !! It's a ripper of an idea !!
My thought was to put and articulation point behind the cab, similar to a road grader. But very much a pipe dream 😊😊

[FFRMAN]

My two cents worth, bloody go for it !! It's a ripper of an idea !!
 

yeah me too, really interested to see how this goes.

As far as rarity and preserving military heritage - there's SH$% loads of them about now and will be for many years ie next 20 or more - so go for it!

[Mick_Marsh]

My two cents worth, bloody go for it !! It's a ripper of an idea !!
 

yeah me too, really interested to see how this goes.

As far as rarity and preserving military heritage - there's SH$% loads of them about now and will be for many years ie next 20 or more - so go for it!

I seem to remember reading somewhere there were only seventeen of the two Air Defence variants built. Rarer than Gunbuggies.
Hundreds of GSs.

You do with it as you see fit.

What are you going to do with the drawer? There is a fellow in Tasmania who wants one.

[gooloo]

It appears to me that this forum is becoming more and more like AULRO every day with people wanting to discuss what ridiculous modifications they want to do to their vehicles, this seems to me like another one of those threads that wants to go down this path. Let's keep the forum to the preservation of these vehicles and to show case restoration of the vehicles and associated data.
Cheers
Rod

I don't want to hijack this thread so if someone wants to delete or move this then feel free... but fwiw I think this is one of the problems with the remlr forums. The purpose isn't exactly clear.... is it for (as Hot Rover says) serious discussion around preserving vehicles to as much detail as your personality or budget dictates? or is it about enjoying these vehicles? or modifying them? or fixing them? or painting them pink and putting 20inch rims and cutting up panels to fit sub woofers?

I have to admit I've kind of gravitated to "that other forum" simply because there's more discussion, more chance of someone replying to a thread, and as a result a more friendly and welcoming feel. I've read posts like the one I've quoted and some other posts openly lamenting the influx of newbies with perenties and the "perentie fever" that they feel sweeping through the place - as someone who only owns their first and only land rover, let alone military vehicle I don't feel like I really fit the profile that these forums are searching for. If that's the case, that's ok - I still appreciate the value of these posts, even if it's to be viewed as more of a one way reference than a discussion.

Selfishly, my view is that the more healthy forums, the better chance of finding someone who's done something I'm trying to do, or asked the same question previously. Or best case scenario - a bunch of people debating ideas with real world application examples of a bunch of different solutions, fixes, enhancements, etc for everyone to read, make their own decision, and report back how it went.

So anyway - my point being.... I think it would help us newbies, and some of the oldies if there was a statement somewhere on the forums explaining what they're for, what they're not for, etc.... or if it already exists, maybe making it somehow more visible.

[aussiegregmac]

Ask and you shall find.
In the website  www.remlr.com , on the opening page look for the highlighted "Members Page"
from there on top right hand corner look at  REMLR Inc.
From the next page look at  "Statement of Objectives"

The prime intent, I feel, as stated in the Objectives is the continuing Preservation and/or Restoration of L/Rovers
and/or other Military Vehicles and Equipment.

Now, if members purchase a vehicle of whatever vintage or type it's entirely up to them what they do with it.
However their doesn't seem to be anything in the Objectives that leans towards "Where do I locate the boombox,
Can I fit a Supercharger into the Engine Bay, Will the AirCon still work with a canvas roof, Why can't I get it
registered to fit the Netball team in the back"
Am I being Diplomatic enough ??  Yes, there are a lot of "newbies" buying lots of Perenties.  I've got two now as well.
An awful lot of new buyers are using them as daily drivers, taking picnics at the beach, going pig-shooting or
even thrashing them to death in the bush or on rocky fire-trails.  That's entirely their right.  Exactly what the Series
vehicles were used for earlier.
Let's hope there is still as many vehicles preserved into the future in original form for future generations to lust after.
And purchase from us.