Author Topic: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck  (Read 83917 times)

Offline Ravvin

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #345 on: September 13, 2020, 06:39:01 PM »
Actually, I got sidetracked.
I was going to post up what I did today inside the little shed, but got distracted explaining why I had done it up.

I have one of those basic sandblasting cabinets that seem like a good idea at first, but soon turn out to be really frustrating.



Its a bit like this one. There is a weak little light inside, but you'd be better off with a candle. Totally useless. Most of what you do in there is by feel.
There is a wire rack in the bottom, to keep your parts out of the garnet. Throw that out, its a waste of space. You need to constantly push the sand down to the pick-up in the bottom, as it doesn't slide by itself unless you half fill the damn cabinet. There is a sheet of thin film inside against the acrylic top. That lasts maybe 5 minutes before everything inside is a blur. They give you 5 spares, but you may as well save them until you actually wear through a sheet. The nozzle inserts are some pink stone/ceramic stuff that the places that sell these cabinets want a fortune for. I found a seller online and bought 10 for less than the local place wanted for 1. I buy local when I can, but not at that price.
There is a little pleated paper filter on the right side of the box, supposedly to let the air out but not the dust. That clogs up in about 10 minutes. Then I noticed that there is a similar hole in the back at the top left, with no filter at all, just a offset plate so you don't squirt garnet straight out the hole. This lets all the nasty fine dust out, where it gets in your eyes, up your nose and even in your ears, so wear a full tyvek suit and a full face respirator. Definitely makes it a good job to do in Winter. I chucked the pleated filter and stuck a 90mm computer fan over the hole, to force air in. This makes it a lot easier to see inside, if you stop blasting for a few seconds, as it pushes all the light powered garnet out the hole at the back. I stuck a 2" plumbing elbow over the hole on the back and run it to my ancient shop vac that gets used for all the messy jobs.
With the vac outside and the blasting cabinet in the little shed, I found that if I closed the door so it was really dark, and laid my LED floodlight on the top of the cabinet, off to the side, I could actually make out vague shadows inside the box, until I started blasting. Huge improvement.



Before and after. These are the trailer brake fittings from the F1. The red paint came of easily. That yellow stuff is really tough. I had to chip and scrape at it with a screwdriver tip, to flake it off in chunks.
Where its on the chain, I'm going to try using the wire wheel on the bench grinder and see if that works, before giving it all another quick touch up in the sand blaster.
I also had a go at one of the pulley sheaves from the rear winch roller guide system, but it was a bit much for the sand-blaster. I need to knock the worst of it off with the grinder and wire cup brush first. Maybe tomorrow.

Greg.

Offline dugite

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #346 on: September 13, 2020, 06:39:23 PM »
You're certainly a worker Greg - I'm glad that you were able to arrange that tent with some lighting

I'm sure that we all enjoy your updates.

Thanks mate!
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Offline Chazza

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #347 on: September 19, 2020, 08:57:54 AM »
Nice to hear of progress Greg.

Years ago I made a sand blaster cabinet a bit like yours and experienced all of the same problems. It went to the tip a few years ago in a clean-out and now I de-rust all of my parts in molasses,

Cheers Charlie
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Offline Ravvin

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #348 on: January 07, 2021, 05:22:34 PM »
Just a minor update, as I seem to have been doing everything BUT work on the truck lately.

A while back, after I sandblasted, primed and repainted those air fittings, I noticed that I was getting a lot of hydraulic oil dripping from somewhere on the second ram of the Abbey crane. After spraying everything with degreaser and wiping it down I found that it seemed to be weeping through cracks in the hoses. As you can see in the pic I posted below, from the last drama I had with the extending jib hoses, there are 2 that go in through the hole in the boom, to the second ram. I think that's the boom. Not too sure on the correct terminology on cranes.



The 2 hoses are the same length. One goes down to the far end of the ram and the other curls around in a tight loop and goes to the pivot end of the ram body. I wanted to take one hose off so could take it in to get a pair of new ones made up, so I fired up the truck and wiggled the crane around, inside the shed, to where it was positioned as you can see in the pic below. The end of the jib is resting firmly on the ground.



I followed the hose from the bottom of the ram back to the valve box and carefully cracked the line, to release any pressure and caught the oil in my drain pan. I undid the hose and drained it out as well as I could. I couldn't get it back through the hole in the boom as the hoses were cable tied together, so I figured I would undo the far end and then reach up and cut the ties. Standing on the chassis rails in shorts and thongs, I realised I had undone the wrong hose at the valve box when a big fan of hydraulic oil sprayed out all over me, the chassis rails and the wall of the tent. Seems the 2 hoses had crossed over somewhere up in the box body of the boom, before coming out the hole.
Once I re tightened the hose, I went back and undid it from the valve box and finally got it out. In doing so, I dropped one end, which of course fell down and hit the oil drain pan that was sitting on the chassis rail, catching the dripping oil from the ram. This fell down and emptied itself onto the nice clean black plastic sheet I have under the truck, to catch dropped tools and small truck bits. After I got the worst of it soaked up, I cleaned myself up and dropped the hose in to get new ones made. It was only when I got back and walked into the tent that I realised that running the truck in the shed was not a good idea. It reeked from the exhaust. I'd never noticed it earlier. The truck only ran for a few minutes, but it runs rich, needs the tappets adjusted, the timing set and all fluids changed. Working on oily chassis rails in thongs probably wasn't a good idea also.
So, after all that, I decided I needed a way to pipe the exhaust outside. Bunnings sells a 4" aluminium ducting, like a vacuum cleaner hose that stretches out to 6m. It can handle temps up to 150C, so should be fine. I planned to tape it to the muffler outlet with the aluminium tape that the HVAC guys use and run the ducting out under the side of the tent. When I got down there to tape it on, I realised that the old muffler was stuffed.



It's home made. Just a tube with the old ends from a proper muffler welded on. The outlet pipe extends back inside to about midway, but the 2 inlets just open directly into the muffler tube. You can see the patches over the large hole and ding where they hit something. There is another hole eaten through on the back. When it was running, I used to think it was a lot louder than the MK3, but put that down to running the dual carbs and being way out of tune. Guess not.
Previously I had painted up one of my new NOS mufflers that I got from Bushman, using a full can of high temp engine paint. I pulled the muffler off the old MK3 and noticed that the paint had oxidised a bit, so thought I would give it a respray. I scuffed it down with a green scratchy pad and went to wipe it down with wax & grease remover. The old paint just wiped off! Right back to bare shiny metal. I think these mufflers may be tinned on the outside. Its not zinc and there's no sign of rust on this one or the other one stashed away until I need it. The texture on it looks very similar to what I found when I cleaned the paint off the fuel tanks, which are definitely tinned. Anyway, I cleaned the whole thing back to bare metal and gave it a few coats of Rustoleum High temp BBQ paint. Says it will handle up to 1200F, or 93C. Americans.  ::)



Looks pretty good. It's going to stink when I run it next, so I'll wait for a northerly and open the front of the tent. The bracket that supports the end of the muffler was bent way back, probably from when it got the big ding in the front. I had previously made a new hanger for the MK3 as the old one was almost rusted through. Mine is a lot more sturdy, so I will use it. The tubular bash guard that protects the muffler doesn't seem bent, so I'm not sure how the muffler got hit. When I removed it to get to the muffler, only one of the bolts sheared off. There may be just enough to weld a nut onto the end, but if not, I'll heat it up with the oxy and try to drill it and use an easy-out. Not too bad, really, as on the MK3, every single bolt sheared off.
The twin down-pipes are pretty rusty, but they can wait for now. When I was working on the MK3, I found that it's pipes had been replaced recently as they had no rust at all. I cleaned them up and painted them with high-temp paint, and they are still rust free, so I'll use them later when I work on the engine. They need to come off as I have to remove the exhaust manifold to put a new gasket in. I noticed when I first ran it that it leaked from there and found that some of the studs had been screwed half out and left. I tightened them up, which seems to have worked, but the gasket is probably stuffed and I want to replace it.

Plenty to do, just need to find the time, money and willpower to get started.

Thanks for following along on this stumbling trip from problem to problem.  ;D I'll post up more when I get something achieved.

Greg.

Offline Ravvin

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #349 on: January 08, 2021, 03:11:37 PM »
And another issue.  ;D

I fitted the muffler this morning. I looped a couple of ratchet straps around the muffler and bits on the truck to support it while I struggled with the bolts and those rings that seal the muffler to the pipes. I got it on, with the flanges lined up perfectly and the rings centred, but something is wrong.



As you can see in the first and second pics, its very close to the radiator support plate and the chassis rail. As in under 10mm gap too close. The bracket straps that I made for the other truck appear to be almost 4" too long, yet I compared them to the bracket on the old knackered muffler and the spacing between the holes is exact.

I'm thinking that maybe the previous owner had new down pipes made to suit his aftermarket muffler. I can hang off the end of the muffler and drag it down so that the bracket fits, but that puts a huge strain on the pipes. I could cut the brackets back about 3" and re-drill the holes. This would still put some strain on the pipes, but not as much, and I would have a bit more room between the top of the muffler and the chassis rail. I'm worried that when the engine twists on its mounts with all that awesome IH torque, that the muffler will get crushed into the chassis rail.  ;D
I considered loosening the pipes up where they join the exhaust manifold, but that's a real pain to get at and there's a very good chance the damn bolts will just shear off. If I was going to attempt that, I would need someone here to help from up in the cab, and if bolts started snapping, I think I would just rip the pipes out and use the ones off the MK3, as they aren't anywhere near as rusty and I know they fit this muffler.

I'd like some opinions on what you all think is the best way to go. If possible, could someone with an F1 or F2 with a genuine muffler check their setup and give me some measurements? I'm after the clearance above the rim of the muffler and the radiator support plate, the gap between the muffler and the chassis rail and the distance between the 2 bolt holes on the metal bracket straps that support the muffler. And maybe a measurement between the outer rim of the muffler and the front of the tyre, so I know if it needs to angle forwards or back. The muffler that came off was pushed right back close to the tyre and the bracket was all bent out of shape. On the MK3, the bracket straps dropped straight down from the rubber bushing, so I expect that is it's proper orientation.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks, Greg.

Offline Ravvin

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #350 on: January 26, 2021, 02:16:03 PM »
Well, that was a lot of wasted effort.
I tried loosening the bolts that hold the 2 exhaust pipes to the exhaust manifold, hoping to get some clearance for the muffler. The heads of the bolts had sections of steel rod welded to them to stop them spinning. As soon as they spun around and made contact, they snapped off. The rods that is, not the bolts. On checking, it looks like they were brazed. Luckily, I can get a spanner on some and a socket on the others, so I will definitely change them out with the ones off the MK3.

I put my expanding duct pipe over the muffler outlet and taped it up with the aluminium tape. I ran the other end out under the bottom of the tent shed to outside.
This proved to be a waste of time because as soon as the truck turned over and fired up, it just blew it apart. I tried patching it and angling the ducting so the exhaust blew along it instead of against the side but it made no difference.

Another issue now is the truck wont keep running. Its got fresh fuel, but when it fires up, I can run it up to about 2000 rpm and hold it there, but after a few seconds the revs drop and it coughs and splutters and if I don't pump the accelerator, it cuts out. It also sounds and feels like it is not firing on all cylinders. I've never had it do this before. I feel it is a fuel issue, either the lift pump isn't working properly or there's an issue in the carbies. I gave them both a good tapping, in case the needle and float are sticking, but it's looking like I need to pull them off and clean them out. Both show signs of a long term leak around the top plate, so I will see if I can find a couple of rebuild kits.  I've never worked on carbies before, and watching videos showing people stripping them right down and rebuilding them and being able to tune and adjust them later doesn't really fill me with confidence for this job, where one is fixed and the other more your regular style. I can definitely pull them apart, clean them and put them back together, but the adjustment part is where I will have issues.

Not sure which fuel pump I have. The manual shows 2 types. The "current version" seems to be made by Goss Gasket Manufacturing in Victoria. Seems they are still around and there were lots of hits on a google search for the G594 model number. The rebuild kit is a Goss 199VC, and there are lots of links for these. Seems they are the same as the kits for the Holden red 202 motors. Prices ranging from $69 to $98. I might give Goss a call tomorrow and see what they say, as they list the rebuild kit on their site.
The early pump was made by AC Delco, but there are no google listings for EEP63191A. I'll look up the NSN numbers and see what they say.

I have brand new spark plugs and leads in the MK3, as well as a new distributor cap and rotor, and I know they worked well. I'll swap them over and make sure it still runs the same or better before I touch the carbs.
I also need to do something about the ventilation in the tent shed. Just running it for those few minutes, however roughly, totally stunk the place out to a point I had to leave. There is a large zippered door in one end that I can open and roll up, but I need to see if I can get one for the other end so I can get a good flow through. Its blowing 30km/h from the W-SW now, which would be perfect if I could open both ends.

Oh, the main reason I was going to run it today is I realised that I could pull the main pivot pin on the top of the ram on the Abbey crane and slowly extend the the ram, which would ease the main body of it up out the top of the arm to where I could get at the leaking hydraulic line I need to replace. If I had a truck with an Abbey crane on the back, I could use it to reach over and pull it out.  ;D

Offline STDDIVER

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #351 on: January 26, 2021, 04:13:36 PM »
Hi Greg - I am not 100% sure, but I might have a carby kit somewhere - no promises - but mine had a sticky needle and seat, hated to idle until changed out.   Cheers buddy - Frank

Offline Ravvin

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #352 on: January 26, 2021, 07:07:12 PM »
Hi Frank.
That would be great if you did, but even knowing the kit part number would be a help. I have one here I got from another forum member, back when I first got the MK3, but I just checked and its different to what is in the F1 carbies.

Well, quick update on the fuel pump. I decided it was the first potential issue in the line, so I pulled it out.



Fairly easy to get at, just filthy. From underneath, there were just 2 bolts to undo, then up in the cab and the inlet hose and hard outlet line came off. The old fuel really stank, so that may have been a big part of the problem.



Even though it has AC all over it, it is definitely the newer type of pump supplied by Goss. The early model has an internal lever that connects to the plunger shaft by hooking into 2 recesses in the sides of the shaft. Mine has a bar that goes through a hole milled into the shaft. Mine also has a secondary seal that keeps the oil out of the housing, just under the diaphragm. This makes me believe that the 199VC kits for the Holden fuel pumps might be the one to get, but I'll compare all the innards before I spend the cash.



I gave the outside a good scrubbing with degreaser and then removed the bowl.



That stuff you see there is like a fine red dust. Its all through the cab as well. The truck had one of the common in-line plastic filters just before the pump when I got it, and I have one almost the same on the line from my boat tank, and it is still clean. This means the silt is either fine enough to get through the filter, or its been there a very long time.



Everything got a clean with degreaser and then rinsed in wax and grease remover. It came up really clean and I can't see any problems with the main components, but I need a new diaphragm and the seal under the glass bowl. The seal under the bowl was painted when they sprayed the engine and pump with that minty green paint and it must have been wet when they put the bowl on as it stuck to it. When I removed it, some of it remained stuck to the glass bowl. The diaphragm is a bit tired. No holes in it, but it doesn't flex much when the plunger is pushed in. You can also see some small cracks in the surface around the edge of the centre plate. The valves seem to work. I can blow into the inlet with no real resistance and suck through the outlet as well. Only problem, if it actually is one, is that I can also suck on the inlet and blow into the outlet and there is a tiny amount of leakage. Air flows easier than petrol, and this is a 50 year old design, and probably parts too, so not sure how big a deal it is. With the speed this diaphragm is moving, I don't see it losing much pressure due to leakage. The issue I see here is that it could let the fuel slowly leak back to the tank, as the carbies would have breather vents and allow air in, once the fuel in the bowls evaporated a bit and allowed the needles to drop down. If I have to replace the valves, it will be interesting, as they are pressed in and then staked. The earlier pump had valves held in with a small plate and 2 screws.



Now that I have it all apart and clean, I'll take it into the local non-chain store parts place that the local mechanics use and hope to get them at a quiet time. Hopefully one of their more knowledgeable staff might take the time to match it up with something in their kits.

The whole side of the engine is covered in oil and grease. Its coming from the side covers and tappet cover. I degreased and pressure washed the sump cover a few years back and because I haven't run the truck much, there's been no new oil leaking down to protect it from rust. The damn thing is just an oversized Land Rover. I think that, before I touch the carbies, I will give the engine a blast with the hot water pressure washer and then replace the gaskets in the side covers and tappet cover. While I'm there I will set the valve clearances and swap over the plugs, leads, distributor cap and rotor button from the MK3. I need to run it a while with an oil flush product in it before I can change the oil, so that has to wait a bit. Same with the radiator. It has green stuff in it, but who knows how old it is. It's likely to have lost all its protective properties by now. I just know that once I flush it and replace it with new coolant/antifreeze/corrosion inhibitor, that the damn water pump will fail or the radiator will spring a leak. But I'm ready for it this time. The radiator in the MK3 is freshly re-cored and I rebuilt the water pump just before I realised the chassis was too far gone. If the F1 tries to give me any issues, it will get a transplant.

Offline Lionelgee

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #353 on: January 26, 2021, 09:49:19 PM »
Hello Ravvin,

I am not sure how much of a stickler for genuine parts you are on the Crane Truck? An option for the fuel pump could be getting an electric fuel pump and blanking off the mechanical fuel pump with a plate. I did this in a 202 Holden motor fitted to a Series 2 Land Rover. I added a hidden switch for the electric fuel pump that provided an anti-theft device at the same time.

Kind regards
Lionel

Offline Ravvin

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #354 on: January 26, 2021, 11:17:31 PM »
Hi Lionel.
I have also considered an electric fuel pump. I think the issue would be I would either need it to be really low pressure, or would need some sort of regulator. I think most of the cars that use electric pumps have a return system to handle the excess. The system on these trucks is very basic. The only thing restricting the flow of fuel from the pump is the float and needle in the old Bendix-Tecnico carbies. I don't think it would take much to overpower and flood them. The workshop manual for the MK3 shows an output pressure at the pump of around 4psi, maximum.

Saying that though, I would still consider it. I'd like it to look as original as possible, but I will make changes where reliability and safety can be improved. One of my next tasks is going to be replacing many of the old steel air lines with modern BrakeSafe lines and fittings. It won't be obvious without someone crawling underneath, but I feel its far safer and more reliable in the log run. So far, all of the steel lines that I have removed to get at the chassis rail have either been rusted through or have significant wear from rubbing.
I wouldn't mind fitting a radiator expansion tank too, as it seems to push over a litre of coolant out when it is run up to temp. It has a new cap with the correct pressure, about 7psi, so it must just be expansion. The system holds just over 20L.

From memory, Red Rocket on this forum had an electric pump fitted near the tanks on one of his MK3's, as it had a habit of vapour locking in the heat up Cape York. It was a manual switched pump though, and was only switched on to push fuel to the mechanical pump when needed.

Oh, after looking through the F1 Operators Handbook and the MK3 Workshop manual, I see I definitely have the newer style fuel pump, as the early one had a manual priming lever on the front. My MK3 also has the new type, so I can always pinch bits off it, if its in any better shape.

Greg.

Offline Chazza

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #355 on: January 27, 2021, 09:16:36 AM »
An old mechanic friend of mine once told me, that just about all of the mechanical pumps have the same parts inside them; usually it is just the arm which is different.

If the valves leak a bit, it can make for slow starting until fuel has been pumped up to the carburettor. eBay has anti-drain back valves which can be fitted into the fuel line worth thinking about,

Cheers Charlie
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S2A 109" GS '63
S2A Fire Truck '64

Offline Ravvin

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #356 on: January 27, 2021, 09:47:39 AM »
Thanks for that Chazza.
That's another option I hadn't considered. I was thinking about putting a decent filter in the line as well, preferably one that can be cleaned out or has easily changed elements, but the problem then becomes- where do I put it? If I put it close to the pump, its a pain to get at. If I put it back near the tanks, I have to fit 2 or only use 1 tank. Also, how much extra restriction can the pump handle? Its already dragging fuel around 2m, through a narrow pipe and the tank valve.
The lines from both tanks had rusted off just near where they passed under the cross-member behind the cab. I am considering replacing these sections with modern rubber fuel line, as well as the section from the tank valve to the pump. The only issue I see is I don't know if the rubber hose would work under suction. I think most cars use metal lines with a few short rubber sections where they need to flex or join to filters. I can make them out of steel tubing if I have to, as I have the bending gear and flaring tools, I just think the rubber hose onto barb fittings has less chance to leak or allow air into the lines. Far easier to route, as well.

I just realised something. The pump actually is dragging fuel from the tank through rubber lines. That's how I've been running it. I have a boat tank sitting on the front tank support, with the hose running up to the pump. It even has a rubber primer bulb in the line, to add a bit of extra restriction. The only difference would be that it would route up to the tank valve before heading around to the pump. The benefit I see is that it is easy to fit an in-line replaceable filter up on the top of each of the tanks, where its easy to get at, as well as being easier to plumb in and clip up, and it would probably handle the heat from the engine better than the steel lines, so less chance of vapour locking, although I don't see that as much of an issue down here in Tassy as it would be up north. And I can't see me driving this up north, unless I win the lotto and can afford to have a B-double fuel truck follow me around.

Greg.

Offline Chazza

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #357 on: January 28, 2021, 09:02:11 AM »
A filter is a good idea, the Ryco paper ones are cheap and work quite well.

Perhaps more importantly, is to stop any rust in the tanks. I lined my Land Rover tank with the glue used to bond PVC drain pipes, it works brilliantly at a fraction of the price of proprietary tank sealants. I can send you a word doc on how to do it if you PM me.

The filters come with short sections of hose. I think I would make steel pipes and paint them if I was in your shoes. I usually connect the pipe at the pump, with a short length of rubber from the filter-kit. This allows the engine to move on soft engine mounts, without straining the steel pipe.

Nice to see progress,

Cheers Charlie
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Offline Lionelgee

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #358 on: January 28, 2021, 10:28:39 AM »
Hello Ravvin,

Another approach is to have an electric fuel pump located  on the single fuel line close to the tanks and located before the mechanical fuel pump. The electrical fuel pump acts as a booster for mechanical fuel pump. The mechanical fuel pump will get the fuel it needs to be able to deliver the fuel flow and pressure that the carburettor requires.

Place a fuel filter on the single fuel supply line before any form of fuel pump. That way if the filter leaks you do not have presurrised fuel being sprayed over a hot motor.

Kind regards
Lionel