Author Topic: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck  (Read 158702 times)

Offline Ravvin

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #45 on: August 20, 2016, 06:22:14 PM »
Thanks for that. Iveco may have a listing for one of those.

I managed to get some more done today, between the rain showers.
During the week I primed and painted the slave cylinder and handbrake linkage pivots.



They came up looking really good. Now I just need to keep the brake fluid off them.
I made a replacement seal out of a piece of rubber from a blown skidder tube. That stuff is tough, but when it gets staked, it splits open like a balloon.

Before refitting it all, I poured about 3 litres of clean kero into the diff and spun a tire on the intermediate axle to mix things around. After doing that for a while, I realised I could start the truck and run it in first for the same effect, but a lot less effort. Sounds good, but the damn thing wouldn't start. It's pretty cold, but even with the choke on it didn't fire once. After checking for any wires I could have knocked off, I found the glass fuel bowl was empty. Oops. I knew it was low but I didn't want to top it up as I want to pull the tanks off to get them steam cleaned before I repaint the outsides. Oh well, back to spinning the tire by hand.
After a bit, I drained the kero into the clean oil pan and it was now almost orange. There were chunks of what seem to be curdled oil in it. I expect that's from the water contamination. I strained the kero through some paper towel and it came up a lot cleaner, so I put it back in. I did this 4 more times, and by then the kero wasn't getting any dirtier and I wasn't getting any more chunks or rust particles. I have left the pan under it, with the bung out so it can fully drain. Hopefully it is now clean enough.

After that, I bolted the slave cylinder and expander back on and refitted the brake shoes and springs.



The first pic below is one I took ages ago, of the passenger's side rear. That's the one that was dragging the most, and the one where the slave cylinder piston wasn't returning properly.
See anything wrong in that pic?
I only spotted it because I went to replace the brake shoes on the driver's side and couldn't remember which way round they went. I eventually found the pic below in the MK3 Workshop manual, showing the direction of rotation and the position of the adjuster bolts.



As you can see, the bottom brake shoe is around the wrong way. It should have the bare "tongue" on the other end. I'm not sure what effect this would have, but I'll be putting it back on the way it's shown in the manual.

I still have to repaint the back of the hub, so I couldn't refit that yet. I started working on the slave cylinder for the passenger's side next.



The boot is still in good condition, but the whole slave cylinder will need a good clean and repaint. As you can see in the second pic, the piston is stuck and not returning. When pulling it apart for cleaning, I found a build-up of black greasy stuff under the block-off bolt. The bleeder it also one of the original types, with a flat base and a small ball bearing that closes the passage. The bleeder has a very fine hole to let the fluid pass when it's loosened, but this is rusted closed. The one on the driver's side had been replaced with a more modern type, with a tapered base and a large bleed hole, instead of the ball bearing, so I will try to find another like it.

I cleaned up the rusty gunk on the outside of the piston and dribbled some CRC down the side, then tapped it back in to give me room to pull the alloy adapter plate away from the slave cylinder enough to remove the internal circlip that holds the guts in. It turns out that they had a go at this before, and managed to break the end off the circlip. I got what was left out, but it still wouldn't come apart. Once again, I had to put it in the press. It only took a few pumps and it started to slide out.



As you can see, its a real mess. The bore seems ok, with no corrosion, just a ring of stuff from the brake fluid around the base. This cleans off with acetone. I'll clean it all up during the week and repaint it all, ready to go back together next weekend, if I get the time.
The rubber seal is stuffed. I think they put it in wrong last time it was apart. It should go into the recess, and have the spring sit on top. I'll make a new one up and see how it goes.

While I was under there, I got tired of belting my head, so I took the metal mudguard off. I should have done this right at the start, before I even took the wheel off. It gives you a lot more room. It's pretty rusted and has a few dents, so I'll give it a clean up and repaint, then refit it before I put the tire back on.

Greg.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2017, 06:15:22 PM by Ravvin »

Offline john.k

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #46 on: August 24, 2016, 11:05:08 PM »
I assume that you all know that these are a Pommy brake and were fitted to Commers,Austins,Leylands,Albions etc.The idea is that the brake is twin leading shoe in either direction,and they do work very well when properly adjusted and maintained.Be very careful when assembling that the pushrods dont fall out of the rocker sockets.If you have brakes that sort of half work,and drag,then its a good bet this has happened.Later versions of this system had wire clips in the shoe webs to retain the rods,but Inters dont.The rocker adjusters are taken up just enough to eliminate free play in the system,all adjustment of the shoes is by the square peg on the expander.Regards John.

Offline Ravvin

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #47 on: August 25, 2016, 08:26:37 AM »
Thanks for that. Yes, the rear brakes, the "puller" type, were also fitted to the Coventry Climber. There used to be a guy on the UK eBay site selling NOS rebuild kits for them. Same part number as in the MK4 & F1 RPS. Typically, he hasn't got any left now. The actual seals are PBR P621 and I got 4 for $5 each, so I don't need the kit now as the outer rubber boots are in "as new" condition.

Those damn push rods! I had a hell of a time trying to get the shoes back on without them falling out. Once I got them on, I then had to remove them again as I realised I had one of the back springs on backwards, which meant it sat out from the shoe, rather than tucking inside. If I left it, it would rub against the backplate bolt heads, so it had to be fixed.
Anyway, the rear driver's side is on now and I should get the bearings and hub packed and refitted Sunday. I've started cleaning and painting the passenger's side bits after work each night and they may be ready to go back on too. Then I can start on the intermediate axle. Same brake slaves on it as on the front, so hopefully the rebuild kits for it are easier to come by.

I will update you all after the weekend.

Greg.

Offline john.k

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #48 on: August 25, 2016, 08:57:40 PM »
Forty odd years ago,in Nth Qld,two mechanics got six months jail each for letting the pushrods fall out in the rear brakes of a Albion bus.Regards John.

Offline Ravvin

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #49 on: August 27, 2016, 07:03:26 PM »
Hi all.
I got home and it was raining, so no outside work today.
You may remember I posted the pic below at the start of the thread. It shows the tac plate holder with the blue spray paint across it, matching the squirt on the passenger side windscreen.



I have removed the tac plate holders and had them out the back on the bench. I had painted some brake parts an was washing the brush out in thinners when I noticed that some of the blue paint on the tac plate holder was running where I spilt some. I dipped a rag in clean thinners and found that the blue paint wiped off without touching the other layers underneath.
I figured I better take a few pics before totally wrecking them both.



Driver's side Tac Plate Holder (before)                                                                                                                 Passenger's side Tac Plate Holder (before)

The driver's side seems to be "98". The passenger's side could be anything.
I started cleaning the driver's side holder with thinners and a rag. With a good rub, the top layer came off and showed 1" high yellow numbers and letters across the top and 3" high numbers below.
The passenger side one was a lot harder. The top layer of camo green was very thick and rough. The red letters underneath wiped away with it. Under that were 4" high white letters on a dark bronze green background.



Driver's side Tac Plate Holder (after)                                                                                                                 Passenger's side Tac Plate Holder (after)

The driver's side looks like it has "7C020/01" at the top and "98" in larger numbers below. There is a black dot between the 9 & 8 and it is actually slightly indented into the metal, as though someone has made a recess with a hammer and bolt so the paint would fill it.
The passenger side one is "?2". I can't tell what the first number/letter is. The dark green paint may even be earlier writing, but it comes off a lot easier that the top layer of paint, so it's hard to tell.
The 2 is obvious. The thing beside it may be a diagonal slash, I suppose. The only number I can think of in that font with a leg angling down like the one here is maybe a 7. so 7/2?

Hopefully, someone out there might know what these plates mean and sees this post. I can't find any info on any of the F1's with the Abbey cranes, other than the list of ARN's. Were they ordered and delivered with the cranes or were they an in-service mod? Did they go overseas at all? Where were they stationed and most importantly, does anyone have operating instructions for the Abbey crane? :)

Greg.

« Last Edit: December 02, 2017, 06:18:36 PM by Ravvin »

Offline GGG

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #50 on: August 28, 2016, 07:18:58 PM »
Greg, as far as I know cranes only started to be fitted in the seventies so they were not original equipment. I will leave it up to the rivet counters as to whether they were Abbeys or not or if the Abbeys came later. They would not have seen service in Vietnam but may have gone elsewhere.
Geoff.

Offline Diana Alan

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #51 on: August 28, 2016, 08:34:13 PM »
Hi Geoff

We've had this discussion previously
There are two census for the F1 with cranes.
  • 6221/B-10    Truck, Cargo, 5 Ton, GS, With Winch, Crane, Truck Mounted    -    Mk.5 with 6,000lb Hiab Crane    Mk.5 with 6,000lb Hiab Crane
  • 6221/B-11    Truck, Cargo, 5 Ton, GS, With Winch, Crane, Truck Mounted    -    Mk.5 with 4,000lb Abbey Crane    Mk.5 with 4,000lb Abbey Crane
So both Hiab and Abbey were fitted, the Hiab with higher crane capacity.
Have no idea if they were retrofits, but I have the RPS for the F1 with Abbey out at the Chook Shed.

I seem to remember a thread of a Mk3 with crane which may have been in SVN.
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Perentie FFR 50-422, SIII FFR 30-146, SIIA GunBuggy 112-726, Mk3 Inter 170-437, ex-SADF SIIB/SIII Radio Relay,
Army Trailers: No5 x 2, W/S x 2, PT1-1.2, Horndraulic ATR dog trailer.
Civilian: MY85 RRc HiLine 4.6, MY51 ex-RACQ 80", MY91 Defender/Reynolds Boughton 6x6, MY12 D4 SDV6

Offline Ravvin

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #52 on: August 28, 2016, 09:07:22 PM »
Hi.

Thanks for that info.

I think mine started out as a plain F1 and got the Abbey fitted later. The plate on the dash just shows it as "Truck, Cargo, 5Ton, GS. F1"



There is no mention of the Abbey Crane, except for the faded instruction plate screwed to to roof behind the turret hatch, and even that looks a bit dodgy.



The plate appears to have been cut off and then the end screwed on separately.

Greg.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2017, 06:22:46 PM by Ravvin »

Offline GGG

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #53 on: August 28, 2016, 10:00:51 PM »
Diana, It would be interesting to know more about that Mk.3 with the crane. I never saw anything like that but the Australian Army in 1970 was a big place. It would have been very handy though when you look at how high off the ground the tray is. I used to jump off the back of the truck and hit the ground running. Now I would fall off and just hit the ground :'(
Geoff.

Offline Diana Alan

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #54 on: August 29, 2016, 10:01:58 AM »
Hi Geoff

I suggest you read the thread started by Tommy in this board http://remlr.com/forum/index.php?topic=1454.0, going by Mike C's posts it seems that it may have been an in service modification.

Remember the Mk3 4x4 were replaced by F1 as the Vietnam conflict progressed, the Mk4 4x4 were not routinely transported to SVN, although I seem to remember an image of a 4x4 in country with the later cab (Mk4/F1/F2/F5) although this may have been an local repair with a F1 front.

Diana
« Last Edit: August 29, 2016, 10:06:52 AM by Diana Alan »
REMLR 240.
Perentie FFR 50-422, SIII FFR 30-146, SIIA GunBuggy 112-726, Mk3 Inter 170-437, ex-SADF SIIB/SIII Radio Relay,
Army Trailers: No5 x 2, W/S x 2, PT1-1.2, Horndraulic ATR dog trailer.
Civilian: MY85 RRc HiLine 4.6, MY51 ex-RACQ 80", MY91 Defender/Reynolds Boughton 6x6, MY12 D4 SDV6

Offline STDDIVER

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #55 on: August 29, 2016, 03:20:09 PM »
Hi Ravvin - I have sent you an email with an attachment you might find very handy - use as you will!

Cheers   Frank


Offline Ravvin

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #56 on: August 29, 2016, 05:50:29 PM »
Thanks for that, Frank. That's a nice clear copy.

The front of the MK4 RPS had all of the supplier codes listed with the actual supplier names, so it was easy to work out who's part number I was looking for.
All of the F1 RPS's that I have seen only list the NSN number. I just have to find out how to convert the NSN numbers to a supplier's name and part number now.

Your RPS has all the serial numbers listed at the front with the corresponding NSN.
All of the parts in it are listed the same as the one's in the MK4 RPS, with the supplier's number and then the serial number. The problem is that many of those supplier numbers aren't in the list from the MK4 RPS. Not many hydraulic parts in the MK4 I guess.
I'll work it out.  :) I have a LOT of o'rings to replace to stop all the leaks before I can get it registered.

After looking through the REMLR ARN list, I'm getting even more confused.
Chassis number 3588, which is definitely what is stamped on my chassis rail and on the nomenclature plate, is 180-971. The ARN page says it is a "Truck, Cargo, 5Ton, GS. F1", which matches what is on the nomenclature plate. The ARN page says it was 1972, but the plate in the truck says June 1969, census number 6221-B. All the trucks listed as being from 1969 are in the 176 ARN range. I haven't actually checked to see if the engine number matches yet. I have to degrease it all first.

Does anyone know if other F1's with the Abbey or Hiab cranes had it listed on their nomenclature plates?

Greg.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2016, 07:56:50 PM by Ravvin »

Offline STDDIVER

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #57 on: August 29, 2016, 08:52:12 PM »
Hi Greg - No worries mate - Happy to help out.
My FI has had a chassis change but does have the words - Truck, Cargo, 5 Ton, GS, With Winch, Crane, Truck Mounted.  It is a bit confusing as when I have tracked the two chassis numbers they come up to one original ARN and the other to another ARN.  I could potentially have either! I am going with the REMLR data. 

I have found an old Hella flood light casing like the ones on your and my F1. I am experimenting with a fully LED insert into the existing outer Hella Casing. If this works I will send you photos and one for your unit. The inner replacement will look from the outside just like the original light, use far less power being 9w LED and be far superior. Hopefully there will be less heat build up in this system than the original and you never need to replace a globe again!

Frank

Offline dkg001

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #58 on: August 31, 2016, 03:37:58 PM »
Courtesy of 104 Sigs website. Photo of F1 with crane  96-6.   RAEME 106 Field Workshop at Nui Dat.  Photo supplied by Nev Haskett [1971]

Offline GGG

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #59 on: August 31, 2016, 07:16:23 PM »
Well, there you go. Like I said, never say never. It would be interesting to hear more about this one. A unit level mod perhaps?
Geoff O.