Author Topic: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck  (Read 144002 times)

Offline Chazza

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #360 on: August 09, 2021, 09:58:07 AM »
Good work Greg.

I found the carburettor cleaner by CRC works quite well at getting the grunge off,

Cheers Charlie

PS just remembered; the best solvent for getting anything off, is eucalyptus oil; available in supermarkets. Even acetone can't move what eucalyptus can.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2021, 10:00:05 AM by Chazza »
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Offline john.k

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #361 on: August 12, 2021, 08:43:04 PM »
Wasnt the kit I sent you for a twin carb layout.......Ive sold lots of them for holdens  falcons and conventional inters......only part I know of is different is the float valve ...or brass body ,to be exact.,needle is the same.

Offline Ravvin

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #362 on: August 13, 2021, 04:36:40 PM »
Yeah, I checked the numbers on the box and your kit is for the single carb on my MK3. The gaskets might be the same, but both carbs on the F1 need rebuilding.
I'll check the throttle body on the MK3 and see if it is also a BXUV-3. I probably just need the gaskets and accelerator pump anyway. The jets would be different between the MK3 and the F1, but I doubt they will need replacing.
The local part store that specialises in older car parts and upgrades thinks they can find enough bits to suit if I pull the carbs apart and clean them up.
I tried contacting the Classic Carbs place and left a full description of all the numbers on my carb, hoping they could identify which rebuild kit it uses, but they never replied.
I did see on their page that he is trying to sell all the stock as a bulk lot and that he doesn't rebuild them any more. There is a link to a place he recommends, so Imight try them.

I was looking at getting an ultrasonic parts cleaner, around 6 to 10L. Pretty much all I found online are the Vevor ones, which I think are just a rebadged China special.
There are hundreds of listings on eBay, but they are all the same 3 units. There seems to be an earlier version with a flat black control panel, a newer version with an angled blue front plate and the newest "upgraded" unit with an angled black front plate.
The blue one seems to have a bad reputation for letting all the smoke out. The newest black fronted unit is supposed to have a better reliability, but nobody has them listed in Australia.
I can get one, but it will come from China, so good luck getting warranty when it blows up.
I tried the local places but they all wanted a minimum of $1500 for a 10L unit. I could buy 6 of the Chinese units for that.

I'll try the places in the next town over, tomorrow. Maybe they have something there.

Greg.

Offline john.k

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #363 on: August 13, 2021, 09:45:38 PM »
Ive still got a container load of stuff in the other yard.....I sold the yard last year,with 12 months to get my stuff out.......thought it would be a breeze......but its not.....im too old .....Anyway ,im hoping to get some machines from out of a 40 ft container moved next week.......but I hadnt counted on the lockdowns .....Ive got a new big shed built in my yard ,but it has council approval for domestic uses,garaging of vehicles ,and nothing else ,as the private certifier explained to me ...about five times.......im fairly sure the other container has a lot of green  tagged carbies in it .....I know there is a big lot of starters in it......not new,but usually only one thing is wrong with them ,and you can make one from two.

Offline Bluebell One-eight

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #364 on: August 15, 2021, 10:45:11 PM »
Hello Greg, good to see you are still on the job. The 1 9/32 is the venturi size. The BXUV 3 is a truck carb,It is also used on 300 Bedfords.It was not used in cars, most of them were BXUV 2s. The only one that matches the venturi size the the one used on Ford 250s, but they are a much squatter unit to fit under the bonnet. I think the BXUV 3 is sought after by some of the speedway crowd. With the fuel pumps some had retainers to hold the valves in with 2 screws to secure the show, they make changing the valves easy. Keeping the brass strainer has to be a plus. keep at it.

Offline john.k

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #365 on: August 20, 2021, 04:36:34 PM »
The early AC pumps had the valves retained by a brass retainer and two screws.....but they gradually got cheaply made ,and the valves were staked in .....and sometimes fell out ,bringing progress to a halt until fixed.......In the US the Inter sixes also had the sealed Carter fuel pumps ,which had to be replaced as a unit ......some of the US Ford lift pumps had a tab punched out of the diaphragm that served as one valve in the lift pump.

Offline Ravvin

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #366 on: March 30, 2022, 07:57:07 PM »
Hi all. It’s been a while but I haven’t really gotten much done.
I did buy an ultrasonic parts cleaner. Turns out they do an awesome job, but don’t run it where you can’t get away from the sound.
One tip I can give anyone thinking of buying one of these is to decide what size you need and then buy at least one size bigger.
You can always clean smaller parts, just add more cleaning solution. You can’t clean bigger items if they can’t fit in the tub or be covered by the solution.



I started off with just water and dishwashing detergent. I left the carby complete and let it run for 15 minutes on coarse mode. (The cleaner has 2 modes, coarse and fine. Coarse is supposedly for heavy duty cleaning and fine is for the final delicate cleaning).
Within 15 seconds, the water went from clear to a grey murky soup. After 15 minutes it shut off and I pulled the basket out to drain. The pics below are what it looked like at this point.



I then dismantled the carb and put it back in the cleaner. This time I went with a cleaning solution that is meant to go in regular parts cleaners. I think its just a basic water-based degreaser.
I gave it 15 minutes and then turned all the bits over or onto their sides, and gave them another 15 minutes. Once this was done I pulled the bits out and found there were still a couple of spots where the mud and grease were caked.
I poked at them with the tip of a screwdriver and broke them open. A quick scrub with a toothbrush and the carb bits were spotless.



One thing I found from doing this is that once parts come out of the cleaner for the last time, you need to immediately give it a good rinse and spray down with something like WD40. If you don’t, the next day you will find that your cast alloy carb is covered in a white powdery coating which I expect is aluminium oxide. I’m tempted to etch prime and paint the outside of both carbs, but not sure what I could use that is fuel and heat safe. There obviously is something suitable, as both carbs still have a few patches of pale green paint, but only on the steel throttle base.
I managed to get a couple of rebuild kits specifically for the BXUV-3 carbs. They come with a whole lot of different gaskets for the different versions and I found the correct ones. It also came with new needle valves and accelerator pump plungers. The problem I have now is that the replacement plungers are shorter than the originals.



As you can see, the original is 61mm long and the replacements are only 50. The shaft diameters are different also. The original is 5.5mm and the new ones are 5mm. This may not matter as the top of the shaft goes through a hole in a pushrod and then has a retaining clip to stop it slipping off. New clips were in the kit and seem to fit the new shaft properly, so if I use these plungers I may just have to put a small washer between the clip and the top of the pushrod.

Something I just realised is that the original plunger may not actually be the correct one. I just loosely assembled the cleaned carb, putting the old worn out plunger in, and when I measured the total movement distance of the plunger, I found that it only moves 3mm before bottoming out. If I measure the total possible throw distance, I get 11mm. The spring system in the carb means that once the plunger hits bottom, the push rod can still go down further but won’t do any damage as the spring just compresses. From what I can see, the metal piece on the bottom of the plunger blocks the hole in the bottom of the accelerator pump chamber.
From my understanding of the way you drive these trucks, you would use that 3mm of travel before you reached high enough revs to not stall the truck. It would block the hole at the bottom of the chamber and prevent any extra fuel going to the jet. I’m wondering if this was done deliberately by the army to limit acceleration. It would explain why every rebuild kit I can find has these shorter plungers.
If I put the new shorter plunger in, I would have a lot more actual accelerator pump travel, I think. It wouldn’t block the hole in the bottom until you were about ¾ throttle. Not sure if that would be an issue.

I remember reading a really old post on the AULRO forum where someone commented that the carbs on the army Inters had this longer plunger. They never mentioned why though.
Has anyone got any thoughts on using these new shorter plungers?

Greg.

Offline Chazza

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #367 on: March 31, 2022, 08:19:58 AM »
Nice to hear from you again Greg.

Give the short plungers a go, the worst that can happen is that you will have to change them. I think you are probably correct about the long plungers being the wrong ones,

Cheers Charlie
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Offline john.k

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #368 on: April 03, 2022, 11:43:03 AM »
Ive got an unopened kit here,and the acc pump shaft is approx 5.5mmx 58.5mm......I also managed to save the last container ,unfortunately it was so heavy ,I had to get some helpers to dump about 4 ton of stuff from the front so the tilt tray could load it.......Mostly GM 4/71 and IH TD 15 dozer stuff,...but most of the transfer case gears and shafts had to go too...

Offline Ravvin

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #369 on: September 02, 2023, 10:22:35 PM »
Hi all. Its been ages. All sorts of things have been happening and, honestly, I've really been struggling to find any enthusiasm for working on the truck.
That may have changed now. We'll see how I go. :)

Anyway, I have this little shed out the back that I suspect was once an outside thunderbox and later cot converted to a small chook shed, going by all the boxes screwed to the walls.
I've just been using it to store random stuff in, but decided to clean it out and see what I could do with it.



So I emptied it out, pulled out all the old chook boxes and all the nails and screws that were used to hang things on, and then lined it out with some 7mm ply sheets that I got as seconds. Before putting them up, I painted both sides. Made a huge difference.



The shed is 9' x 6' on the outside. It looks a lot bigger in these pics as I took several shots and joined them to make a single image. It stretches things a bit. By my calculations, it should be big enough to squeeze a decent size lathe in. So I did.
It was coming up to the end of the financial year and the Machinery Warehouse mob usually run some decent package deals around that time every year.
With the discounts they were offering, the package I could afford, along with the extra bits I wanted, was actually a couple of steps up from what I had originally been looking at.
In the end I got the Hafco AL-356V with the digital read-outs, an upgraded tooling set and Jacob's chuck. I also got some decent levelling feet and a magnetic base indicator gauge.

When it got here, I backed it into the yard but there wasn't room to manoeuvre the car and trailer around, but it turned out to be balanced well enough that I could drag it by hand, most of the way.



The last bit was soft dirt and a bit of a slope, so I used the crowbar to creep it forward, into position.
The only issue I had was that when I unboxed it, I found it was facing the opposite direction to what the markings on the crate said.



With a couple of sheets of heavy ply, a high-lift jack and some pipe rollers, we got it out of the trailer and turned around. The lathe weighs 650kg and it was bolted to a thick plywood skid.



We jiggled it around and finally got it into its place. Not a lot of room at the tailstock end, but there's roughly 18" between the end wall and the head end of the lathe.



Since then, a lot of other things got in the way, but I've been watching a lot of YouTube channels and picking up tips and tricks. I've also been spending too much money on useful stuff.
Its surprising just how much these things cost. I now have a full set of outside micrometers, telescopic bore gauges, centre drills, inside/outside callipers and digital vernier gauges. :)
I've recently picked up an engineer's level, a set of 123 blocks and 20L drum of way oil, which brings me up to now.
I spent half of Friday trying to level this damn thing. I set the 123 blocks on the cross-slide and sat the level on them. I'd then get down on the ground, hold the threaded rod and turn the adjusting nut, then get up and see if anything would change.
The level is accurate to 0.002" over 10", so towards the end, it would only need microscopic movements of the adjusting nut to move it too far. Once I got the head end level, I'd crank the saddle down to the tailstock end and go through the same steps, then wind back to the headstock end and find it had moved slightly, so I'd tweak it a bit. I finally got both ends showing as level and was packing everything up for the day when I noticed a bead of oil that I had sprayed on the cross-slide to prevent rust was creeping along, heading for the back of the lathe. How could it do that? I'd just spent ages levelling it. I put the level back on and it showed as level. On a hunch, I spun the level 180° and saw it was so far out, the bubble was hard over one side and I had to lift the end close to 3mm to get it to come back. I was not happy.
I took it inside and tried making sense of the instructions, but while the words were mostly English, they didn't actually make intelligible sentences. YouTube to the rescue again. After a quick search, I actually found a video from the original manufacturer. One of them, at least. From what I can tell, they are all made in the same factory and then each company sticks their name on them. Anyway, their video shows that you remove the end cap and adjust the two little collars that run on a long threaded rod. You don't actually turn what looks like the external adjusting screw that you see on the outside, which is what the paper instructions seemed to imply. When I popped the end caps off my level, I found that they had never screwed the top collar down, which locks everything into place. The end of the level was free to move up and down about 5 threads on the threaded rod. I then watched another video on adjusting engineer's levels, which shows how you place the level on a flat surface, like my desk, then rotate it until the bubble is centred. Then you block it in place so you have an exact position that you can come back to, which I did by using my 123 blocks. You then flip the level 180° and see how far it is out. You adjust the collar until the bubble is roughly halfway back to the centre, then flip the level and rotate it until it is centred again. You keep repeating this until you get to the point that there is no change in the bubble's position when its flipped. This took me ages, as the house I am in is ancient and everything moves. I had to sit in one exact spot and not move. And I have 2 cats. Ever noticed how if you have to do something that requires concentration, stillness and precise, minuscule movements, that this is also the time that said cats decide that its a great time to wake up and come to see what you are doing? Usually involving lots of jumping around, head-butts, nose-prods and foot-pokes. Eventually though, I got it levelled and locked off.
Today, I went back out to the shed and managed to get the lathe levelled in just 10 minutes. I figured I'd start with something simple. I recently moved stuff around in the laundry and found the main shaft out of the truck winch was leaning up against the wall behind the door. I had a nasty case of surface rust from dust and moisture settling on it over the last couple of years. I figured I would put it in the lathe and spin it up while I wet sanded it clean again.



It looks a lot worse in this pic than it actually is. What I noticed was that, as I tightened up the 3-jaw chuck, the tail-stock end was trying to move off to the side. I tried loosening it off again, rotating the chuck a bit and re tightening it, but it still kept trying to move off centre. I thought it might be the weight of the shaft doing something weird, so I pulled it out and put in a piece of heavy-walled stainless pipe that was 18" long and found it was doing exactly the same thing. I set up the magnetic-base dial indicator and found that right at the chuck, it was showing as 0.3mm out and at the far end, it was 1.6mm out.
That seemed a bit excessive. I have a live centre for the tail-stock, but that much run-out would put a lot of strain on things. I decided that, for now, I would swap over to the 4-jaw chuck and see if it was any better. It took me 15 minutes to get the 3-jaw chuck off as the marks I thought I was lining up were not the ones I was supposed to be lining up.  ;D Once I went and checked the manual, it only took a bit of levering with a pry-bar, smacking with a dead-blow hammer and some additional swearing to get it off. When I tried to put the 4-jaw chuck on, I couldn't turn 4 of the 6 cam-locks that hold it on. Not even a quarter turn. When I checked it out, I found that those 4 studs that the cam-locks gripped were lower than the 2 that worked. After reading the manual, I worked out that I could adjust them by removing a small lock screw and backing the studs out a bit. After checking with the verniers, I found those 4 studs were all shorter by 1 or 2 threads than the 2 that worked. I adjusted them and it went straight on the lathe. Now how does that work? They held up shipping for over a week, as they said they had to assemble the lathe, adjust and test everything before shipping. They even included a sheet with a lot of numbers and ticks, showing how accurate everything was. How did they get great figures on the 4-jaw chuck when there was no way they could have even mounted it? Now I have doubts about everything else they claim to have tested.
I noticed that the jaws were in the chuck, but set up for external clamping of larger pieces. I started winding the first jaw out, to flip it over, but it was really rough and gritty. I got it out and found that the threads and side dovetails were full of old thick oil, metal filings and casting sand. I cleaned the first one out and it now runs fairly smoothly, but I really need to totally dismantle the chucks and clean and lube them up properly. I'll do that tomorrow. Hopefully, the 3-jaw chuck will run a bit truer as well.
I worked out how I will make the metal cups that hold the rubbers for the suspension bushes for the transfer case and I managed to pick up a 2m length of 55mm diameter solid rod (mystery metal), to turn them out of, so they will be my first real projects. The winch shaft will get sanded clean and I will probably need a couple of speedi-sleeves where the cable drum runs as those areas are pitted from sitting. (Before I got it).

Anyway, that will do for now. I'll do up a post when I get the chucks cleaned up and see if I can get some decent pics of the lathe shed.

Greg.

Offline Chazza

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #370 on: September 03, 2023, 10:45:01 AM »
Great to hear from you again Greg.

HAFCO have a poor reputation in my workshop. My drill press had a 0.25mm bow in the table and the lathe lost drive to the lead-screw, which will require me stripping all of the bottom half of the machine, to find out what has gone wrong.

In case you haven't seen Quinn's advice on Blondihacks, here is a link to her Youtube channel. I have been fooling around on lathes since 1978 and every time I watch her movies, I learn something new.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLY67-4BrEae9Ad91LPRIhcLJM9fO-HJyN

Hang in there with the trucks; most people's enthusiasm wanes at some time,

Cheers Charlie
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Offline Ravvin

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #371 on: September 03, 2023, 04:40:25 PM »
Thanks for that. :)
Blondihacks, Abom and Inheritance Machining are all in my Subscribe list. I've worked through all of their videos, except for a few of Abom's that got a bit drawn out. Now I want a milling machine too.  ;D
Inheritance Machining showed a pretty good method of heat treating parts that I think may come in handy.
I've been collecting metal for a while now, but I can see it might get expensive if I have to buy new. Years ago, while working in the bush in the North-East somewhere, I found a section of solid hydraulic cylinder rod. It's 90mm across and just under a metre long. I also picked up a 2m length of 55mm rod that appears to have been machined. $30 at the local scrap yard as he thought it was tube. :) Stuff like aluminium and brass are a bit harder to source locally.

There was another channel that had a guy buy a new lathe and then strip down the chucks, tail-stock and saddle to clean, hone and lube everything, but I can't find it now. I'm guessing the chucks will be pretty self-explanatory, as I pull them apart. The saddle and tail-stock operate pretty smoothly, so I'll leave them alone for now. One issue I have found is humidity/dampness in the shed, especially through Winter. I've had to make sure I wipe everything down and re-oil it all every week or so. I didn't realise how bad it was at first, and just had the thin plastic bag that it came in covering it. Within a couple of weeks, even oiled up, I had fine surface rust on sections of the ways, cross-slide, tail-stock and both chucks. One chuck had a nearly perfect hand-print of rust. I cleaned it all off, but there doesn't seem to be a way to get it back to its original silver colour.
I have to replace the roofing iron on the shed this summer, so I think I will also pull the sheets of ply off and fill the cavities with insulation batts. I'll try to get it all as air-tight as I can and maybe run a low-wattage heater on a timer or maybe a dehumidifier. See how that goes.

As for the truck, I've sort of had hold-ups in a couple of areas. To finish the chassis end off, I need to move the transfer case that is sitting on top of it, right over the bogie drive. To move that, I need the Abbey crane operational. I have the new hoses, just need to pull the rear pin on one ram and push the cylinder body out about 200mm to get at the couplings. To do that, I need to have the engine running. To do that, I need to finish rebuilding the damn carbies. :)
They are both clean now, and I just need to sort out the issue with the accelerator pump plungers. I'm going to see if I can work out how the brass bit on the bottom can be removed, and then just replace the old leather bucket and spring with the ones off the rebuild kits. It must either be screwed on or held with some sort of Loctite. Or both. Heating it with the torch should do something, if I can hold the parts tightly enough. But first I need to work out where I put them. I remember putting them in a bag with all the old clips, jets and other bits that I replaced with new bits from the kits, but I think I put it in a "safe place" so I wouldn't lose them.
Anyway, I'll post up again when I have something worth mentioning. :)

Greg

Offline Chazza

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #372 on: September 04, 2023, 09:25:37 AM »
Someone on Blondihacks recommended this;
https://conservationsuppliesaus.com.au/product/renaissance-wax/

I haven't used it but it would probably help in your situation. I wipe my mill and lathe with engine oil after using them,

Cheers Charlie
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S2A 109" GS '63
S2A Fire Truck '64

Offline Ravvin

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #373 on: September 09, 2023, 10:24:22 PM »
I had a bit of time this afternoon, so I pulled the 3-jaw chuck apart to see if I could smooth its action out a bit and hopefully get it running a bit truer.
It came apart pretty easily. The socket head screws were all random torques, from finger-tight to locked up so much that I thought I was going to strip or snap a couple of them.



I found a lot of fine metal flakes and really stinky oil inside. I sprayed it out with degreaser and wiped it all down with clean rags. From what I can see, the actual scroll plate and main body where the scroll contacts has been really well machined and ground or polished. Any area not making contact with moving parts has just been rough machined, with obvious cutter marks. This shouldn't be an issue, I suppose, but I wonder if chips and junk that get in will catch on the rough surfaces and cause problems, at some point. I'll just have to keep an eye on it and clean it out occasionally.

The actual jaws are another matter.



Its hard to see in these pics, but the clearance cuts in the grooves that remove the shoulder left from milling are razor-edged. The cutter they used to make these grooves seems to have been a bit loose. They ground the bottoms of these slots, but in places the metal was machined out too deep and the grinding didn't remove all the milling marks. I put the micrometer on them and where it was ground on both sides, it it very consistent. When I get to the areas where there is milling marks, the thickness of the remaining metal varies a lot, but is always less than the ground section. Just poor quality control, I guess. Built to a price, not a spec.

In the chuck body and scroll-plate, I did a bit of work on the sharp edges with some emery paper. There are still sharp edges, but they are less likely to split off into little bits of razor sharp wire. I degreased it all again and wiped it out with a clean rag soaked in way oil. That stuff is messy. Looks like hydraulic oil but has that sticky stuff you get in proper chainsaw bar oil. Tackiness modifiers. Like playing with molten mozzarella, but you probably wouldn't want to lick your fingers.
With the jaws, I tried taking some of the sharp edges off the inner lips of the slots with emery paper, but I need to find or make a couple of tools to wrap the paper around. The jaws are hardened and I need to be able to put the pressure on specific edges to have any effect with the emery paper. A triangular file that doesn't taper would be perfect, but I don't have any. For now, I just cleaned them up with degreaser and gave them a coat of way oil and put them back in the chuck.
I put it back on the lathe and clamped onto the piece of stainless pipe I used last time. This time, with just 2 taps of the copper hammer, the dial gauge showed only 0.22mm of run-out at 450mm from the chuck. Previously it was 1.6mm. That's a huge improvement and should be fine to work with when I can support the end with the tail-stock.
Really happy with this outcome. Next job is to turn a couple of spots on each end of a piece of bar and make sure the ways are parallel to the work in the chuck. Blondihacks and Inheritance Machining have both made good videos on this, so I'll watch them again before giving it a go.

Greg.

Offline Lionelgee

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #374 on: September 09, 2023, 10:44:15 PM »
G'day Greg,

Despite your issues with your new lathe, it is great to see you posting here again.

How is that shelter tunnel going that you brought to park the Inter under?

Also, since your experience with the ultrasonic cleaner and working with carburettors... would you still recommend someone buying an ultrasonic cleaner for working on a Holden Stromberg carburettor from the 1970s? Two of my Series Land Rovers came with 202 Holden motors fitted by previous owners. The carburettors could certainly do with a good clean prior to having a rebuild kit put through them. On my last one I just used different cleaning rods and a can of carbie cleaner. I also have a number of other carburettors that could do with a new kit being put through them.

Kind regards
Lionel
« Last Edit: September 10, 2023, 10:40:56 AM by Lionelgee »