180-971 F1 Crane Truck

[Lionelgee]

Hello Greg,

Instead of sacrificing a spanner could you use a length of thin tie-wire fed through the hole and out the end of the box section? Then without obstructing the bolt thread could you superglue or Loctite the tie wire to the threaded-end of the bolt. Pull the wire up through the hole as you draw the wire up out of the hole? Once the nut is fed through and done up a couple of threads the bit of wire could be snipped off.

The other option is to use bolts pre-drilled for castellated nuts designed for split pins and use the tie-wire through the bolt hole to draw the bolt through the hole

Kind Regards
Lionel

[Ravvin]

Yep. The only problem then is stopping the bolt turning while doing it up. 

Of course, I could tack a piece or rod or wire, similar to that used in concrete reinforcing mesh, across the head. Make it long enough so the bolt can't turn.
There's a market each Sunday just 5 minutes away and there are a couple of stalls there that have baskets of old mixed spanners and other tools for $1 each or so. I just have to check what size the bolts are. The RPS says they are 1/2", so that should be a 3/4" or 7/8" head. Will check this afternoon if it isn't raining again.
I had a quick look last night, and there are 6 bolted cross-members across the rails, so 12 holes to drill.
I'll mark the new rails off one of the rusted ones.
Just have to check if any of my contractors has a magnetic based drill I can borrow. Don't fancy trying to drill 12x 1/2" holes through 6mm steel freehand with my cordless, and the beams are too heavy and unwieldy to bring into work to do on the pedestal drill.

Greg.

[Chazza]

A really good tool for drilling those holes is a step-drill; I drilled a 24mm hole in 20mm plate with one last week, use plenty of soluble oil.

Your spanner welded to a long pole is a good one; if you tear strip of paper and place it in the ring spanner and then push in the head of the bolt it will stay in place while you manoeuvre it,

Cheers Charlie

[Ravvin]

Well, it was a very satisfying day, although it was blowing 50+km for most of it.
I started at the back, jacking each side up, a bit as a time. I had to raise the tray about 200mm, so the rails would clear the winch sheaves and rollers at the back when I drove out.
I noticed that as it went up, the tray seemed to slide back. Not good. The drums I was using seemed a bit unstable. They tilted back when I jacked the tray up. I should have filled them with water first, but thought I might need to move them. Yeah, that was a mistake.



The tray slipped sideways at the back. The front started to go, but hooked the dome of the winch housing. I was able to get a jack under the corner and lift it back up a bit, then I hooked my Tirfor onto the tray and the neighbours tree and got some tension on it. That's the point I was at when I took the pic above.

I got my sister to come over and give me a hand, and things went a lot easier. We got the back realigned and jacked up, then supported it on stacked timber, but it was too unstable and the tray started sliding back again. The drums were tilting as well. The yard looks flat, but actually slopes back. With the back jacked up higher, supported on sleepers and my truck stands, we were able to start on the front.



Using the steel beam was a mistake. We tried to jack the front up enough so that the blue beam would clear the rear winch rollers, but that put the tray on an angle again, and it tried to slide away again. The rear drums were at a precarious slope, so we ran some ratchet straps from the tray to the crane legs and pulled it back.
We first had the beam through in front of the winch, but that didn't work as we couldn't lift it high enough to clear the top of the winch housing. We chocked it and moved the beam back to just behind the winch. It was too close to the point of balance for my taste, but there was no other option.
We got it fairly stable and I started the truck and crept forward. My observer was so intent on filming the truck creeping along that she didn't notice that the blue beam hadn't cleared the winch rollers at the back and was sliding along the tray rails. I actually heard it, even over the engine, and stopped before it slipped out too far.
A new plan was thought up. We chocked the tray, moved the beam right up to the front edge of the tray and jacked it up again. Then, I drove forward until the beam was aligned with the front of the rollers. We chocked the tray and moved the beam and drums to just behind the rollers and realised we had run out of light, but the wind had disappeared.
We ran a chain across the front of the tray and hooked the Tirfor between it and the Abbey crane and pulled the tray back enough that the rear drums were sitting level again and left it for tomorrow.

Earlier, while waiting for my sister to arrive, I got to have a look at the top of the winch.
Very interesting!



It's a bit hard to see, and I'll get getter pics tomorrow, but that's the end of the air actuator you can see in the pic. It's not connected!
Someone has removed the pin, dropped the piston off the winch actuator arm and replaced the pin and split-pin.
No wonder the winch won't work. I have to see if it is engaged or disengaged tomorrow, once we get the tray sitting level and stable.
It's going to make a huge difference, being able to get at everything from the top.

More info and pics tomorrow.

Greg.

[Ravvin]

Got the tray all the way off this morning.



This is how I left it last night. The cable stopped it going back any further, as it was trying to. The back drums had a lot of angle on them this morning.
We put a drum in the centre, between the rails, and lacked it up enough to remove the side jacks. We lowered it down as low as we could and left it sitting on the drums.
We moved the 5th drum to the rear and took the weight while we stabilised the 2 rear drums. They had been leaning way back as the ground sloped away.
We levelled the ground with timber and put down a steel sheet to help spread the load, then lowered the back of the tray down so the whole thing is close to level.
I'll fill the drums with water later, which should help stabilise it.



With the tray off, I was able to have a good look at the chassis, winch and bits.



Something really likes snails. The cross-member was full of empty shells with holes chewed through them. Good on whatever it is.
I put a big shifter on the winch actuator arm and was able to move it a tiny amount, just enough to know that the rod isn't stuck in the alloy housing like the one on the MK3 was.
It looks like either the big worm drive or gear is stripped, or the dog clutch/main shaft spline is stripped. I can probably work out which. If I spin the drive flange, the main shaft should turn.
If it doesn't, then the worm drive/gear is stripped. If the shaft turns, then it's the dog clutch/main shaft spline that is stripped.



The two pipes in the first pic run to the tractor protection valve (second pic). These are the ones with the hole in them that stops me building any pressure.
I'll replace them once I clean all the crud out of the rail and treat the rust between the double layered chassis rails. I see I have to replace the brake lines and fittings too, which I expected.
I see one of the wires is off the sensor on the tractor protection valve. I wonder if this is why my low air buzzer doesn't work?



Lastly, while packing everything up before the rain, my sister looked up and saw the Abbey plate on the crane. She asked if that was the truck's name and didn't understand why I was laughing.
Looks like it's name is now Abbey. 

Greg.

[Chazza]

...
Something really likes snails. The cross-member was full of empty shells with holes chewed through them. Good on whatever it is...

Looks like it's name is now Abbey. 

Greg.

Rats do that; I found a ceiling full of them once!

First girl truck I have heard of – I like it!

Cheers Charlie

[Murray Mk4 Inter]

Great work, well done.
I always look forward to your updates.

Cheers Murray

[Ravvin]

Just a quick update.
I finished work early and picked something I thought I might get done before it gets dark. I wanted to get the winch roller assembly apart so I could free the eyelet on the end. It had been pulled in with so much force that the eyelet had taken a chunk out of the lip of one of the pulleys.

It took some effort. I even had to go back into town to get a couple of heavy duty sockets. There are 8 bolts with 15/16" heads that were really tight. I had a standard 1/2" drive breaker bar and had to put a pipe on it for extra leverage, and still a couple wouldn't let go. I could feel that I was close to splitting the socket or shearing the 1/2" drive end off. There are also 3 big bolts through the pulleys with 1-1/2" heads. I had to be careful here as the heads are all drilled and tapped, with grease nipples in them. I didn't want to shear a grease nipple off if I could avoid it. Typically, I didn't have a socket big enough. Luckily, the place in town had both sockets available in 3/4" drive. With the new sockets, my 3/4" drive breaker bar and my length of pipe, I was able to get them all out without breaking anything.



The 3 big bolts that go through the pulleys will be reusable, with a good clean and a die run over the threads. The others will all be replaced. The heads are pitted and the old nyloc nuts chewed out pretty badly.

It's still a bit cool for paint to cure properly, so I will just give the pulleys and upper and lower plates a bit of a clean up for now. The top plate will need some heavy-duty panelbeating. I might be able to use the press to get it back into shape. It's pretty heavy steel. I'm not sure what the deal is with the rear roller. There doesn't seem to be a way to remove it, other than grinding through the welds. I'll have to have a bit of a play and see how its set up.

Hopefully, I will have Sunday to get some work done. Hoping it doesn't rain. I want to get the Karcher in and clean all the mud and rubbish out of the chassis rails so I can see what needs replacing. The 2 air lines running down to the tractor protection valve are high on the list. Once that's sorted, I will try releasing the winch and pulling the cable out, but I'm fairly certain something is stripped inside. Lucky I have the one off the MK3 in pieces and all cleaned up. If I have to drop the winch to dismantle it, I will get the Abbey crane working. Should make it easy.

I had a look at the control gear the other night, looking for where the leaks might be coming from. I found this.



It's a bit hard to see, but the base of the second control valve body has something missing. It is an open hole. I'm betting that is where all the oil is coming from.
I'll disconnect, cap and label all the hoses going to the control unit and see if I can remove it. Once off, I can clean it up and see what needs replacing. We have quite a few hydraulic service places nearby, servicing the forestry machinery, so I should be able to find someone who knows their stuff.

More on Sunday, hopefully.

Greg.

[Mick]

Greg,

When you get this truck on the road I'll vote for you to be Prime Minister.

Keep up the good work 👍👍

[Bluebell One-eight]

Hi Greg, with the winch drive I think that there is a shear pin on the input shaft to the winch itself ( between the drop box with the cutout switch and winch shaft) It's so long since working on these it's a bit vague! This pin will hopefully all that's wrong. I can't remember how it's accessed, but I'm sure you'll be able to work it out. John

[Ravvin]

Mick, why would you wish such a terrible fate on me?

John, the MK3 and 4 had the shearpin. The F1/2/5 is set up a bit differently.
The MK3/4 is driven from the front, with the brake box on the back of the winch housing, on the end of the worm shaft.
The F1/2/4 has the worm shaft poking out the back and it is driven from there, through a chain drive box, similar to the power dividers on the rear axles. The brake box is on the front of the winch housing. There is no shearpin. Instead, it uses an electric cutout that shuts the engine off.

The reason that I think something in the box is stripped is that I can rotate the input shaft and see the other end of the worm drive turn, where it pokes through the brake box. I know the winch dog clutch is in the Engaged position, as I can see the actuator arm now that the tray is off. By rights, turning the drive shaft with the winched Engaged should turn the drum, but it doesn't.
Before I cut the jammed winch cable, I really swung off it and tried levering it with a crowbar and the drum never moved a millimetre.
What I have to do now that I can see it clearly, is spin the driveshaft and see it the main shaft through the drum is turning. If it turns, the worm shaft and gear are fine and either the spline on the main shaft is damaged, or the dog clutch has stripped its guts. Another possibility is that the 2 big plates that bolt to the end of the winch drum that the dog clutch engages could have sheared their bolts.
If the main shaft through the drum doesn't turn, then the worm shaft or drive gear is stripped. Either way, I have the parts to fix it, but I'll have to drop it out.

It's interesting that the winch overload device didn't cut the engine out before they did so much damage to the sheaves on the back. It's also odd that they disconnected the winch air actuator, put the pin back in the clevis and also put the split pin back. The way the transfer case and winch are positioned, you can't actually get your hand up there. So I have no idea how they managed it. Or why.

Greg.

[Bluebell One-eight]

Hi Greg, The pin I'm talking about when it fails would disconnect the drive where the chain box motion is connected to the winch worm shaft, there is a hole through the worm shaft like the Mk3, 4. Check and see if turning the PTO flange also turns the shaft where the brake is. If it does there is an internal failure in the winch. If it doesn't it is the pin or chain that has failed. The micro switch as the army called it was notorious for failure, because water and / or dust entered it and caused corrosion. I have an F1 winch without the drop box and will check when I'm out there. The winch will turn the opposite way because of the way it's driven, so there may be internal differences between 4X4 & 6X6s. the manufacturers did make left and right winches. Anyway it would be nice if it's only a pin rather than an internal failure. John

[Mick]

Sorry to offend Greg, just reckon if you can save your old girl you can do pretty much anything.

😊👍👍👍😊

[Ravvin]

Sorry to offend Greg, just reckon if you can save your old girl you can do pretty much anything.

😊👍👍👍😊

Hehe no worries, Mick, I wasn't offended.
If I took the job, I'd be sacking so many from all sides that Centrelink would be swamped. 

John, I just got home and had a quick look at the diagram. I see the pin you mean. It's inside the torque box, locking the flange on the shaft that goes through the winch, the one I keep referring to as the worm shaft.
I went out the back and had a look at the winch. I can turn the drive shaft with a screwdriver through the uni joint yokes, and the brake wheel on the far side of the box is turning at the same rate.
This tells me that the torque/chain drive box is fine and that the worm shaft isn't snapped. I looked at the end of the main winch drive shaft, where it comes out through the back of the housing and has a big castellated nut and split pin, and it isn't moving.



This is the one from the MK3.

The fact that the main shaft isn't turning tells me that either the spline on the worm shaft or in the centre of the worm drive gear (shown above), is stripped.
It's also possible that the outer teeth on the drive gear are damaged, or the corresponding drive faces on the worm shaft are.

I would suspect it may be the outer teeth on the drive gear, as it seems to be brass. The worm shaft is steel and so is the insert in the worm drive gear with the spline.
Either way, the winch will need to come out. That means I need to get the crane operational. After I clean the chassis rails down. Tomorrow.

I was planning on disconnecting the 8 pipes that connect to the control valves and putting small plastic bags over the ends, held with rubber bands.
This should keep the moisture out until I can reconnect them. I don't think they will be full of oil as after I parked the truck when I got it here, oil started leaking out the filler/breather on the top of the hydraulic oil tank.
I think it drained back from the rams and lines as air was able to get in through the control valves after I played with the levers a bit.
I'd say I damaged an o'ring. It didn't start leaking until I played with it and it had been sitting there 6 months by that time.

I should have a good update tomorrow.

Greg.

[Ravvin]

Seeing as I need to drop the winch out in order to disassemble it, I figured I better get the Abbey crane running.
I knew it had been leaking badly, and I didn't want to do more damage, so I pulled the spool assembly out after work yesterday.
Most of the hoses use a 7/8" nut and as usual, I had every spanner except that one. No idea where it got to, as I am sure I have 2.
It made it a lot harder, having to use a shifter. If anyone else does this, you need a 1" spanner to stop the BSP to JIC fitting screwing out when you undo the hoses.
As I took each hose off, I put a plastic sandwich bag over the end and secured it with a couple of rubber bands, to stop any moisture or other rubbish getting into the system. I also stamped a small aluminium disk with a number and put it in the bag so I can work out which hose goes where when I put it back together.



You can't see it in the pics above, but there is a long pin that runs through the back of the blocks that the control rods all pivot on. You need to take the circlip off and tap it back with a hammer and punch, far enough to remove the left side control rod, before you can get a socket or spanner on the bolt that holds the whole spool block to the metal frame behind it. Be gentle, as the sections of the spool body that the pin goes through are cast and probably brittle. I can see on mine that 2 of the 4 are broken and missing. Hopefully, the others should be enough to hold it.

I took it into the hydraulics place that helped me out with the fittings for the MK3 air lines and he gave me all the red caps to block the inlets/outlets for nothing. I want to give the whole outside a good degrease and light sandblast before I disassemble it and the caps should keep any rubbish out. I just have the opening on the bottom of the second spool body to plug first. The guy said that these bits are just a cover over the bottom of the main spring, and the idea is that if the o'rings or seals leak on any of the control pistons, the oil would get past and sit in these cups. There is a small hole in the bottom to let it drip out, so you know it is leaking. After looking at the one with the missing cap, he said it is likely that someone has rebuilt it with an aftermarket part, or put it together wrong, as the insert is seated a lot further into the body than the others and shows a lot of old oil leakage. Only dismantling it will tell for sure.

I managed to track down a company in Australia that still had stock of the original rebuild kits for these units. I have a full set coming, so will make a note of all the sizes of the o'rings and seals, in case others need specific part info. The guy at the hydraulics place said that most hydraulic control units are pretty basic and there are loads of aftermarket parts. Ha said that he would be very surprised if they couldn't replace every part of this unit if they had to, which is good news.

I'll put up more pics once I get it all cleaned up and as I rebuild it.

Greg.