101 Crankshaft Pulley

[fc101]

The crankshaft pulley/harmonic balancer on my 101 has developed a substantial wobble and I need to pull it off and check was the issue is.

The bolt head has an integrated dog that is engaged by the crank handle so long tube style socket needs to be used.  As such the hexagon head is deep inside the pulley where I cannot measure the head size.  The largest and longest socket I have is 32mm and this is not big enough so I have to buy the correct size socket but don't know what it is.

Anyone know what the correct size socket is?

Thanks

Garry

[Ravvin]

Just had a quick look through the RPS docs and I think its number 9 in the pic below.



If that's the one, the description is : NUT, CRANKSHAFT, HEX, I.D. 27 MM, PITCH 1.5 MM, THICKNESS 16 MM, A/F 41 MM, STEEL

Hope that helps.

Greg.

[fc101]

Thanks for your effort Greg but that is not a 101 diagram - looks like a standard 3.5 which is different.  The crank dog bolt is larger than 32mm.

[Ravvin]

Ah, oops.
I saw 101 and confused it with the 110.
I just tried getting the files off the REMLR site for the 101, but someone has made a mistake and the link points to a local file on the drive, not to where its actually stored.
One of the Mods with editing permits might be able to fix it.
All of the links look like file:///F:/Website/documents/RPS/02118%20-%20101/RPS02118.pdf.
Anyway, I worked it out and got them all.
If I have the right thing this time, it should be part number 23 in the pic below.



The description isn't promising though.
"STARTING DOG, CRANKSHAFT, STEEL, 2.812 IN. IG, 1ST END CLAW, 2ND END 5/8 IN.-18 UNF THD"

Is that any use?

Greg.

[fc101]

Thanks for your PM and all the information it contains.

I have since found out that the bolt/dog is 1 5/16" long socket.  Chased all the major tool shops in Canberra and could not find any suitable sockets - one place had a thick walled impact driver socket so I bought that on the offchange that the wall was not too thick and it seems to fit.

Next job is to remove the pulley and check for what has failed - is most likely the harmonic balancer which is unique to the 101 - of course it is and now listed as no longer available  .

I appreciate your efforts to assist me 

Thanks

Garry

[fc101]

Pulled the harmonic balancer off today.  The rubber and its vulcanising all seems OK but the keyway seems odd.



Looks like the metal has been machined out - I don't think that it is supposed to be like that as it allows the pulley to rotate by about 30 degrees on the crank before the crank bolt is torqued up. 

So not sure from here - new 101 harmonic balancers are basically made of unobtanium.

[Chazza]

Has the nut been loose at some stage and allowed the keyway to become flogged?

A good fitter will be able to fill the damage with weld and machine it back to a tolerable dimension I think,

Cheers Charlie

[Mick_Marsh]

I had that problem in my hybrid.
The solution: a machinist cut a new key way.

[fc101]

Thanks Charlie and Mick,

I don't think the pulley has been moving for the 7 years of my ownership as I have never had an issue in timing the engine - the timing marks are on the balancer so I think the movement if there was any is only recent - the balancer itself looks OK and the wobble was the entire pulley system not just out on the V belt pulley.

Last month I left Mildura at 9 in the morning and the engine was fine with no vibration - refuelled at Hay and engine was still Ok, refuelled in Wagga and engine seemed a little wooly and not as smooth as it was.  Arrived back in Canberra and engine still felt just a bit wooly but was running OK.  Stated next morning and there was a definite vibration ad a miss in the engine.  The miss proved to be dust in the dizzy and was fixed but the vibration persisted and I noticed the crank pulley had a bit of a wobble.

So this experience driving back home indicates to me that the pulley started to wobble between Hay and Wagga so has not been moving for long.  The damage inside the flange does not look new so I assume it happened a long time ago and that the pulley has been glued (loctited) in the correct position and the bolt torqued up really tight (there are a lot of bush repairs on my vehicle).  I did have major difficulty getting the bolt off with the starter motor method not initially working.  It only started to come undone after 3 sessions of about 20 starts each.  Then the pulley had to be bashed off with a mash hammer and drift - it was not aligned correctly so I assume there is wear between the balancer and crankshaft.

I guess that the "joint" compound that was used broke down and has allowed the pulley to wobble on the crankshaft causing the vibration.

So I think repair is either replacement or as mentioned machinework.

Stop the Press - Anthony Johnson at British 4wd Imports has just contacted me and they have a good second hand one which is now on its way to me.    Anthony has been my preferred supplier for 101 bits and other landy bits since I have had my 101 - a bit eccentric but very knowledgeable and pricing has always been competitive. So a positive vote for Anthony 

Garry

[Mick_Marsh]

Ah, yes.
If in doubt, ask AJ.

I must do another social visit out there soon.

[fc101]

Well I struck out with AJ - he sent me what he believed was a 101 harmonic balancer but it is most likely out of a standard 3.5 litre.  When all bolted up the pulleys are all in the wrong place.

The pulley on the left is the 24v 101 harmonic balancer and the one on the right is the other one. 



Note the different thickness of the balancers and the length of the flange that goes over the crankshaft.  The timing marks are also in a different position. I thought my balancer may have been replaced at some stage but it is exactly as the diagram in the parts manual.

If I want to use the new balancer I will have to put in a spacer (about 13mm) between the balancer and pulleys to space out the pulleys but that may place too much strain on the end of the crank or the balance flange because of its shorter length.  The alternative is to try to repair the old one but welding may damage the rubber.

Garry

[Scary]

Hi Garry,
What I have done in the past for similar keys at damage is one of two things.

Option one is to true the balancer in a four jaw chuck and bore it out until it has removed all damage (having marked the keyway timing). Then machine up a sleeve to fit on the inside with a new keyway. About 0.010" interference and heat (boil in coolant to not damage rubber) and freeze sleeve. This method was used on a 30t CAT excavator balancer and is still in use today after many years.

Option two is to place the rubber part underwater with keyway out and use maganese bronze to braze up the damage. Then machine bore to size and re-cut keyway. This method is not as good as option one and can be difficult to braze depending on the location/depth of the rubber.

Any good machine shop should be able to help, I have done many over the years....

I hope this was some help,
Cheers, Scary

[fc101]

That is a great idea - thanks for that.  The sleeving would be my preferred method.

Thanks

Garry