Author Topic: VTF Notation in the ARN Database  (Read 7463 times)

Offline zulu delta 534

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VTF Notation in the ARN Database
« on: March 22, 2013, 07:54:03 PM »
There are a number of abbreviations that should be explained as well which appear in the recrods.

    VTF - Vung Tau Ferry, AKA HMAS Sydney, an aircraft carrier used to ferry vehicles to and from Vietnam.


This abovementioned statement shows up on the Vietnam Landrover pages and I cannot quite make any sense of why the Sydney would be mentioned in notations in the BBB in this way.
The majority of our vehicles travelled over on the HMAS Sydney whilst a fair number also travelled over on the Jeparit and also, in the case of Engineer equipment, via the Vernon Sturdee, Harry Chauvel, Brunell White  and the other LSMs and small ships, and none of these modes of transport get a mention in the notes.
I suspect that more than likely the VTF possibly stands for something more along the lines of "Vietnam Task Force", the vehicle's destination as being different from the more common Ordnance Corps distribution points in Vungers. I note that a lot of the vehicles with that particular notation seem to be shipped over "less canopies and bows" which also tends to add to the argument.
I know for a fact that all of 1 Coy's vehicles travelled over on the HMAS Sydney and none of them have that VTF notation besides them.
Just a thought to keep you all on your toes.
By the way, everyone's efforts in the site itself is greatly appreciated by the majority of us mere mortals I am sure, and the above notation I have added is by no means a criticism, but perhaps more a suggestion.
Regards
Glen

Offline Phoenix

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Re: VTF Notation in the ARN Database
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2013, 10:32:41 PM »
Ok, the website link I actually included in those pages as there was a narrative of one soldiers experience in vietnam, but I never saved a copy of the page, I can't find an archived copy of it either.  I somewhat regret that now :(

The VTF notation was before my time, and I don't recall what it replated to from the ARN Ledgers, I will have to look at a page to see what is said.
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Offline Phoenix

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Re: VTF Notation in the ARN Database
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2013, 10:40:45 PM »
I have always tried to use plain language rather than abbreviations in my ARN notes, or well known abbreviations.  Otherwise I have copied the wording form army documents.

Ok, using 112-787 as an example.

Quote
112-787    88    1963    -    Land Rover    Series 2A    6005M    Truck, Utility, 1/4 Ton, GS (less hoops, canopy, doors & Tailgate)    25141762C    24303319A    -    750x16       WA. VTF. V2AOD. AWM photo P0869/105/097, P00869.097; tacs '79' MPs.
Second Archive Photo in Vietnam    19.08.69    -

This vehicles is noted as a WA issue, VTF, V2AOD an AWM photo and one other photo.

There is no VTF notation made within the ARN ledger at all, or any indication of such.  Carzee may be able to confirm, but I presume the notation was added because they were noted as being less hoops, canopy, doors and tailgate and therefore presumed to have been shipped to vietnam.  Not an unrealistic presumption mind you, but there is no specific wording supporting that.

Also of interest, on that same page a number of vehicles are noted as having been sold to the RAAF, but the notations have not made it on to the ARN database, must fix that some time.
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Offline Phoenix

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Re: VTF Notation in the ARN Database
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2013, 10:53:33 PM »
There is a AFV note on that arn as well, whcih I presume is Army (or Armed) Forces Vietnam??

ARN Pages for Reference.



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Offline Mike C

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Re: VTF Notation in the ARN Database
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2013, 08:44:17 AM »
VTF: an unofficial abbreviation for Vietnam Task Force.

AFV: an official abbreviation for Australian Force Vietnam.

Mike C

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Re: VTF Notation in the ARN Database
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2013, 09:14:11 AM »
Mike !!!

It's great to hear from you & welcome to the new REMLR forum.

Thanks for the clarification mate, it's greatly appreciated  :)

Cheers,

Pete

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Re: VTF Notation in the ARN Database
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2013, 10:00:28 AM »
Thanks for the Clarification, and welcome to REMLR.
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Offline Diana Alan

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Re: VTF Notation in the ARN Database
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2013, 10:27:04 AM »
Hi Mike

Yes a very warm welcome.

Diana
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Offline Mike C

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Re: VTF Notation in the ARN Database
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2013, 12:56:37 PM »
Thanks ... gotta start somewhere I suppose!

I have just noted the complete line opposite 112787 which is:

W/O = Written Off
2AOD: 2nd Advanced Ordnance Depot, located at Vung Tau, South Vietnam.
ADOS = Assistant Director Ordnance Service
MEMO = Memorandum
R2300-1-13: memo reference number on file (the file should be in the R2300 series, but not necessarily -1-13)
19/8/69: date written off.

Any notation with '2AOD' indicates a Vietnam location/processed by 2AOD in SVN. Similarly, anything transferred to the 'US Produce Office' (or 'USPO') is a Vietnam write off, such as 112798 on the page shown.

Anything with the suffix 'M' to the census code indicates it was issued sans doors, canopy, etc, ie destined for service in South Vietnam. The 'M' was a special suffix issued only to 'stripped' vehicles headed for SVN, at least I have not seen it applied to any other issues, and I have a reference to the commencement of the special suffix for stripped vehicles for SVN ....... somewhere .....

Shipping: HMAS Sydney, Jeparit, John Monash and the four LSMs Brudenel White, Clive Steele, Harry Chauvel and Vernon Sturdee were the only ships transporting vehicles for AFV to SVN. Harima Maru carried vehicles to SVN destined as aid to Cambodia (1 voyage), and transported vehicles to Australia on 3 voyages in 1971/72. Two other ships (Boonaroo and Helma Taylor) transported supplies but not vehicles.

Mike C

Offline Diana Alan

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Re: VTF Notation in the ARN Database
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2013, 01:06:15 PM »
Thats great info Mike.

There was a thread about Haflingers in SVN, you may have seen it.  It seems to be an urban myth as to date we have not found evidence and yes we have checked your M&D book.  Do you have any idea how the rumour started or if there is any truth in the matter?

On a similar note, did the RAAF ever carry vehcles to SVN?  IMHO it would have been an expensive logistical effort for seemingly little purpose.

Diana
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Offline Mike C

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Re: VTF Notation in the ARN Database
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2013, 01:23:40 PM »
BTW, all replacement Army vehicles entered SVN via 2AOD (or its predecessors), before being released to a unit on a 'one for one' basis as required, or as authorized increases in Unit holdings of a particular type. The exception was some engineer plant, which went direct to the engineer vehicle park.

Army Vehicles taken on charge by a unit in Australia as unit equipment prior to deployment to SVN were not processed through 2AOD, but were the responsibility of the holding unit, who took charge of them upon arrival.

All Army vehicles being RTA-ed were processed through 2AOD (except some engineer plant). The possible exception was the withdrawal phase, when vehicles were returned to Australia direct to units that had them on charge in SVN, but even then, their 'out-processing' appears to have been handled by 2AOD staff.

D: Haflingers in SVN? Never seen evidence for that, and don't know where it may have originated from. It probably came from the same source that started the rumour that Australian Ferrets and Saladin A/C's were used in SVN as well!!

Air transport was a 'high priority cargo' method. Urgent needs of the Task Force, including vehicle parts, were dispatched via C130 from Australia, or even commercial air (QANTAS 707) as needs be. Turret kits for M113A1 APC, artillery spares (M101A1, ie M2A2 gun buffers), Centurion spares, and such like, where the efficiency/operability of the Task Force was at stake, were sent in small quantities by air to tide them over, with the bulk then assigned to sea transport. The C130s were also used in-country to ferry some Army vehicles about in 1965-66, but I have not come across any such use later in the deployment. The RAAF may have transported their own vehicles into SVN - 'Ronnie Raaf' was/is a law unto himself, so anything was/is possible, as 'expense' doesn't seem to vector into their thinking - but with the strain on that particular resource, I somehow doubt it was a common practice, if at all.

Mike C

Offline Carzee

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Re: VTF Notation in the ARN Database
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2013, 03:28:48 PM »
I have always tried to use plain language rather than abbreviations in my ARN notes, or well known abbreviations.  Otherwise I have copied the wording form army documents.

Ok, using 112-787 as an example.

Quote
112-787    88    1963    -    Land Rover    Series 2A    6005M    Truck, Utility, 1/4 Ton, GS (less hoops, canopy, doors & Tailgate)    25141762C    24303319A    -    750x16       WA. VTF. V2AOD. AWM photo P0869/105/097, P00869.097; tacs '79' MPs.
Second Archive Photo in Vietnam    19.08.69    -

This vehicles is noted as a WA issue, VTF, V2AOD an AWM photo and one other photo.

There is no VTF notation made within the ARN ledger at all, or any indication of such.  Carzee may be able to confirm, but I presume the notation was added because they were noted as being less hoops, canopy, doors and tailgate and therefore presumed to have been shipped to vietnam.  Not an unrealistic presumption mind you, but there is no specific wording supporting that.

Also of interest, on that same page a number of vehicles are noted as having been sold to the RAAF, but the notations have not made it on to the ARN database, must fix that some time.

Hi Richard, and hello Mike.
I don't know that you would remember me, we met briefly at your office at the AWM and then you showed me around and we ended up at the AWM "stack" area.
This was some time ago (2001?) Mike went to the stack and got the Big Blue Book of ARNs. As I recall we leafed through some pages and found the Land-Rover pages. Mike explained the columns etc and the remarks about the "less hoops, canopy, doors & tailgate" in red and I think Mike may have explained to me it meant they were used by the Vietnam Task Force. So VTF came from that most probably. Also, we looked at the back end of the BBB entries made for all the civvy vehicles and motor bikes and implements on the streets that were commandeered by the Army in Darwin environs in WW2 when it was under attack. That was really historic.
Thanks to Mike I really got the bug for mil heritage.
It turns out the bug is very contagious. THX Mike. :)

Offline Mike C

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Re: VTF Notation in the ARN Database
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2013, 05:48:42 AM »
You are most welcome!

Long time and another continent ago now.....

Glad you enjoyed the chat.

Best regards

Mike C

Offline bronzie66610

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Re: VTF Notation in the ARN Database
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2013, 08:14:42 PM »
Hi Mike C
In the diaries on 17 Const. Sqn. REMARK 406 indicates it was BEYOND ECONOMIC REPAIR and possibly RTA as was 112 951 on 28 th Feb. 1971. It was employed since 1966.
This may have some interest to members.
David
1 Series 2a (Civ)
1966 S2A GS ARN 113-990
1964 S2A GS ARN 112-951
1964 S2A GS ARN 112-915

Offline Mike C

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Re: VTF Notation in the ARN Database
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2013, 01:39:07 AM »
Not quite: the '406' notation indicates that the workshop had decided it was beyond their resources/repair level to fix, so it was either Beyond Local Repair (BLR) or Beyond Economic Repair (BER). BER were generally junked in country (there were expensive exceptions, like AFVs) while BLR were RTA for further assessment in Australia when pulled down.

The '406' is the number of the RAEME form that was filled out to sentence the item, but does not indicate its fate: simply that the particular workshop was unable to return it to a useable condition. There were all sorts of parameters applied in arriving at that conclusion, some of which changed during the course of the deployment. Eg, any AFV was automatically sentenced '406: BLR RTA' on reaching a certain mileage, battle damaged or not. Very few AFVs were sentenced 'BER' in South Vietnam - most badly damaged AFVs were RTA and stripped for parts at least before being written off. Not so for B vehicles like Landies: once they reached their use by date, most were '406: BER' and off to US Salvage!

Mike C