Sticky gears

[Carzee]

  Spoke with Bearman via PM in the last couple of days.

Today the rain stopped so I got the gearbox top cover plate off. I thought a photo record could be useful for other gearbox newbs sometime.

Here we go with Bearman's helpful PM:
"Firstly take the gearbox tunnel rubber cover off and then take out the 3 shouldered studs that hold the gear lever into the top of the gearbox. There should be a neoprene washer above the ball of the lever under the round plate with the 3 shouldered studs."



"Have a look down the hole with a torch and see if there is anything in the selector jaws that could be causing it and also inspect the flattened end of the gear lever for any damage. Then take the four bolts out that hold the two hi/lo lever brackets and remove the lever by undoing the nut on the adjustable rod pivot."

I couldn't see anything much at all.
I moved the brackets out of the way and began the top cover removing job.





"Undo the breather pipe banjo bolt and move the breather out of the way."



"Then take out the remaining studs on the top cover and gently prise the top up."



"Be careful as you lift the top cover as there are three selector springs that are partly engaged into it and will fall out or down into the box unless you are careful.
Make sure you lift it up evenly all around.
When you have it off, pick the three springs out and keep the reverse one separate (the one on the passenger side) it's a little different to the other two."



"There are three ball bearings, one under each spring, and they should stay in their holes
- make sure they do -
as its a box out job if they go down into the works.
Put a dob of grease down each hole to hold them in there."



"Now you can see the selectors and the tops of the gears. Have a look at the drivers side selector (1st and 2nd). The synchro hub itself looks like a straight cut gear (it is actually the reverse drive part of the mainshaft)."

"Stick a flat screwdriver between the synchro hub and the gear in front of it which is 2nd, and see if you can move it towards the front of the box. It should have hardly any movement. If it can move a couple of mm forward then the problem is the snap ring in front of 3rd gear on the mainshaft and its a box out job to fix. In this case what happens is the gear moves forward when the synchro hub tries to engage it and won't select.  If there's no movement there have a good look over the selector and pads and move the selector by hand back and forwards onto 1st and 2nd gear and see what's happening. You should find the problem there somewhere."

I have moved the driver side selector from one limit to the other. This would be similar to sitting in the vehicle whilst stationary and being able to select gears as normal. I could select 2nd and then pull away and go up through the gears ok, but once on the move 2nd gear was locked out.

"Where you have the screwdriver is 1st gear. 2nd gear is in front of the selector hub and under the rear of the selectors."


The brass looking "synchro cones" move by hand or screwdriver at least 4mm, plenty of slop. But I think they may be designed to do that.

[Phil B]

Carzee,

Great post and even better photo's.
Keep them coming!!

Regards,

Phil B

[BEARMAN]

Thats the synchro hub not first gear Carzee. 1st gear is the helical cut gear at the rear and 2nd is the one in front of the synchro hub under the rear of the selectors. You can see it just under/behind the cross bit of the casing with the springs and ball bearings. And yes the brass rings are the synchro cones which float quite loosely on the front tapered face of the gears.

[Carzee]

Ok, I will fix that. Thanks a ton Bearman.

I just went looking for 2nd (helical gear) and used the screwdriver tried to lever against the selector and against the start of the synchro hub for movement. No movement found so far.



Where to now?

"If there's no movement there, have a good look over the selector and pads and move the selector by hand back and forwards onto 1st and 2nd gear and see what's happening. You should find the problem there somewhere.""

[Carzee]

Carzee, Great post and even better photo's. Keep them coming!! Regards, Phil B

Its my HTC smartphone from 2012 - its been 3 years and it hasn't been swimming in the toilet yet.

[BEARMAN]

Try the screwdriver against the front of the gear and see if it will move backwards and if it does then go back to the rear of it and see how far forward it will move. If you are sure it is ok then try moving the selector back and forward from 1-2 and watch the gears to see if 2nd is selecting properly. The outer synchro hub should go right over the synchro cone and fully engage the dog teeth on the gear. 2nd gear shouldn't move when you try to engage it.

[Carzee]

Thanks for that. I will have a go after work tomorrow. After this long weekend (I'll be in downtown Frankston Vic).
In the meantime I have been looking over the 1st and 2nd ROPS.

see att.

[Carzee]

Well the melbourne trip is over. We took the Yaris. Before we left last Saturday i had checked the 2nd gear for movement and didn't find any in any direction. This morning i put the cover on the LT95 and drove it over to repairer without a passenger floor -noisey, a bit. Should have a diagnosis soon.

[dugite]

Learn all you can and take notes Ross,  it'll be good specialist knowledge to have on The Trek 

[Carzee]

Re the Trek I'm reading all and sundry on the Simpson Desert routes when I can.

Re G'box experience...

Lets talk about the side plate I discovered:



Seen there, low down the side of the gearbox, is the 23 or 24mm gearbox oil filler plug. Can't remember which size it was. The filler plug is on a removable  (4 bolts) (squarish shape) inspection plate.

Why am I talking about the side plate?

When you are in a rush you make mistakes. I tried to place the gearbox top cover plate on in a bit of a rush. I went to bolt it up but it was not sitting level... and in doing some investigation of why it was not level.... one of those three pesky selector rod springs (the ones that sit vertically on top of a ball bearing) dropped in and went for a swim. I heard it splash as it dropped into the pool of dinosaur juice (gearbox oil).

The top cover problem (not sitting level without effort) was that I hadn't put the selectors "home" in an aligned position (after all that trying to find a fault and gear movement), so that a 2 inch long pin sitting on the inside of the top cover plate was fouling the selector mechanism.
Oh well.
I drained the oil out the drain plug into a clean container. Once it was low tide in there I used my good torch and could see that the runaway spring was actually beached beside the drain plug hole.

I tried coat hanger wire to hook up the spring. No go. Because of the chassis position I could not see straight into the plug hole from the side. But I did note that the plug and the main filler plug are mounted on a simple bolt-on removable side plate. I unbolted the plate (will need a new gasket but its good enough for 25km drive to Roverworks) and I had the spring in my hand quickly.

I then replaced the side plate and the plugs. I carefully put on the three springs and the top cover on correctly (will need a new gasket etc) and then put on the breather banjo connection and then the HiLo lever brackets.

Before putting on the main gear lever (with its three bolts) I refilled the gearbox oil (from the temporary container) using the top cover hole/mount for the main gear lever.

I then warmed it up and drove the 25km drive to Roverworks.

In a trek scenario, say 200km from a town somewhere out in the red dunes, the blown sand would have made the situation very difficult. Not to mention flies and heat.

Anyway, I got a little lesson as you say.

[Carzee]

I drove the Perentie to Roverworks to get the work done - again, the only hassle is selecting 2nd gear on the move. That was Sept 2nd. I got a call on the next Monday, Sept 7th, to say the gearbox would have to come out and be dismantled to find the fault. On Monday Sept 14th I called in to chat. The box was away getting rebuilt by a specialist who does their gearboxes somewhere in Canberra. The box will have a 40,000km warranty. And the gearbox specialist said the oil pump was worn.

I still don't know exactly what failed in the box. It was left to me to put the dots together. All this winter, for the first few km after a early morning (frosty neg temps), the 2nd gear was almost impossible to get. But only when it was dead cold. Other gears were no so bad when it was dead cold. As it warmed up I would double clutch to get 2nd and then after a few Km all was normal. If the oil pump was failing to lube the 2nd gear synchro perhaps that explains the main fault which appeared late last month. As seen up thread, when the MTF was put in the box at Roverworks in late June, the cold gearbox problem disappeared.

So, the vehicle may be ready in a week's time for the LR Expo. My recon. slave clutch will be put in as well.

Re the Expo, we're booked and paid up for the whole weekend. Paying 5k for a rebuild and fitting is depressing and annoying to say the least, but to take 20+ days and to miss the Expo on top of all that would be too much.

... and yes, the MTF is going in the box. Hopefully we are one more dependable component closer to a relaible vehicle for the lap of Australia.

[Carzee]

Not looking good for the griefbox.
I rang last week and the office asked to me to check with them Tuesday, 22nd, as thats when it was meant to be "going in".
When I rang the date was shifted to Wednesday 23rd (3 weeks exactly after I drove it up to RW workshop).
Yo yo is still in bits I'm afraid.

[fc101]

$5K for a LT95 rebuild - surely they are having a lend of you but I am not surprised - they are an expensive place.

[BEARMAN]

I would have done it for $3500!!

[Carzee]

The cost is unknown as yet, as is the reason the box developed a problem. Everyone is just too busy to chat like the good ol' days.