178-065 " MR WORKSHOP "

[Phoenix]

Could have been that certainly.

The series 3 bar was unique to the army series 3, so was certainly different. It was manufactured here in Australia by Land Rover, as was the lift / towing points.

[Diana Alan]

Could have been that certainly.

The series 3 bar was unique to the army series 3, so was certainly different. It was manufactured here in Australia by Land Rover, as was the lift / towing points.

Although the actual point have the same general size and shape as the points on the MoD lightweights and 101s, only the mounting plates are different the Brit ones held on with two bolts while the aussie ones with four

[zulu delta 534]

I have been following this thread with interest for a while now and I must say that on the whole it is looking pretty good, although one or two things worry me a bit that this restoration has veered slightly off course as an historic restoration and is now following a more imaginative and fanciful tack.
For a very late S2a, the ATU's on the guard stand out like the proverbial dog's bits as being 100% out of place on this more recent vehicle. One wonders about the logic of placing recovery CES mounts on the guards and then plonking an ATU right in the centre of them rendering them absolutely useless. This sort of inaccurate overkill tends to turn an honest restoration into a bit of a fanciful "wannabe" in the eyes of this average ex-serviceman... a bit like wearing medals one is not entitled to wear!
As for the bar, its mounting points and tow rings, why is the discussion about S3 bars instead of what I would have assumed originally to be a S2a bar? The rear two holes of the towing "D"s should align with the bumper mounting bolts that go right through the chassis dumb irons and the front two much shorter bolts simply correspond with two holes drilled through the bumper bar itself, about half an inch or so behind the brush bar. These towing "D"s were also used to locate a specially made towing A frame usually carried by the recovery vehicle of any packet.
Apart from that it looks pretty good as I said earlier, and I hope you are getting a lot of fun out of the exercise.
Regards
Glen

[Diana Alan]

I have been following this thread with interest for a while now and I must say that on the whole it is looking pretty good, ....

... This sort of inaccurate overkill tends to turn an honest restoration into a bit of a fanciful "wannabe" in the eyes of this average ex-serviceman... a bit like wearing medals one is not entitled to wear! ...
Regards
Glen

Hi Glen

While I take your point on accurate Vs fanciful restoration, it is a discussion to be had by itself, but at the end of the day it is the choice of the vehicle owner.  We're not all trying to be the AWM after all.

Where it differs significantly from wearing medals one is not entitled to wear is that the wearing of the medals is an actual crime, instead of something that may be offensive to some.  On that respect the display of any military vehicle is offensive to many people and painting an ex-mil Land Rover majenta or lime green would be offensive to others.

So in respect of Justin's vehicle the finish he has achieved is excellent and apart from some modifications many would not notice it is still something he can be proud of.

Diana 

[Tommy]

As for the bar, its mounting points and tow rings, why is the discussion about S3 bars instead of what I would have assumed originally to be a S2a bar?

G'day Glen

The S3 brush bar was an evolution of the 'late' S2A bar. In other words, the S3 and 'late' S2A brush bars are exactly the same (apart from the addition of lifting eye flat bar protectors and lower corner convoy light brackets on the S3).

[Diana Alan]

As for the bar, its mounting points and tow rings, why is the discussion about S3 bars instead of what I would have assumed originally to be a S2a bar?

G'day Glen

The S3 brush bar was an evolution of the 'late' S2A bar. In other words, the S3 and 'late' S2A brush bars are exactly the same (apart from the addition of lifting eye flat bar protectors and lower corner convoy light brackets on the S3).

Hi Tommy

Are you saying that the late Military SIIa (Suffix H) had the chassis extension brackets where the bar bolts on with 8 short bolts through the front face like the SIII military?  i.e. not the same as the earlier SIIA ones where they were held on by 4 long bolts dropped vertically through tabs on the bar and the dumb irons of the chassis rails.

Do you have any images of the late SIIa chassis ends?

Diana

[DennisM]

I know how hard they are to straighten, I borrowed a very small porta power jack and used it to straighten out the bracket section (RHS mount) on 113-372, luckily for me I suppose everything lined up as it should have, ?? maybe I was just dead lucky LOL, anyway cheers Dennis

[zulu delta 534]

[/quote]
So in respect of Justin's vehicle the finish he has achieved is excellent and apart from some modifications many would not notice it is still something he can be proud of.

Diana 
[/quote]

I agree wholeheartedly with your sentiments Diana. The finish is excellent and a credit to him, and definitely something of which to be well and truly proud.
My point is that he has gone to a lot of trouble to do the right thing and a simple time/accessory lapse such as the ATU detracts from that finished result to those, (a minority I know), who DO know the difference.
This was not at all meant as a criticism of Justin's workmanship, or of his vehicle, but more an insight into how some may view an over zealous application of available bits and pieces.
Regards
Glen

[Tommy]

As for the bar, its mounting points and tow rings, why is the discussion about S3 bars instead of what I would have assumed originally to be a S2a bar?

G'day Glen

The S3 brush bar was an evolution of the 'late' S2A bar. In other words, the S3 and 'late' S2A brush bars are exactly the same (apart from the addition of lifting eye flat bar protectors and lower corner convoy light brackets on the S3).

Hi Tommy

Are you saying that the late Military SIIa (Suffix H) had the chassis extension brackets where the bar bolts on with 8 short bolts through the front face like the SIII military?  i.e. not the same as the earlier SIIA ones where they were held on by 4 long bolts dropped vertically through tabs on the bar and the dumb irons of the chassis rails.

Do you have any images of the late SIIa chassis ends?

Diana

Diana

No S3 brackets. The dumb irons are standard S2A. The actual 'late' S2A brush bar is the same as the S3.

This photo shows 180-899 after I dropped the original 'late' S2A brush bar so that I could clean out the mud muck. The other photo shows a new bumper with replacement S3 bar after cutting off the lifting eye protectors. The S3 bar bolted straight up to the dumbirons without any problems .

[juddy]

Ok hold on boys....  First of thank you Diana for your kind words.

The journey so far as been very Interesting to me and I have learnt so much about these land rovers, I have also received some valuable help from some of our members, and a couple of parts all so came my way, and then there was Mick who was at the start of all this down in Victoria, for his help the lucky man got a Merc.

Also for the recored this is not a concourse restoration by any means, and theres better stuff out there, it was never meant to be that, its good but its not perfect by any means, alot of this is the time, I get bored easy, and always want things done quickly than maybe they should be, so a little more time would have achieved even better results, saying that everyone who's seen it says it look fantastic, and that makes me happy, as does owning a Workshop and a late S2 at that.

Now Glen must be going crazy with the thought of my workshop having a ATU on the wing, well I have to side with him, it looks out of place with the tool holders 100%, and Don't tell him, but its not even fixed its just sitting here, because I wanted to see what reaction I got with it.   

Leaving the ATU off would leave the Workshop as it was in service, but I wanted to be a little different and have a radio in the thing, I know the early series 2s were fitted with Larkspur so I thought that would be a nice little addition and kind of keeping with what was fitted, yes mine was a late one, but I did not want to fit a clansman box either because that was too modern, I do however have clansman radio that I will fit in the middle seat area, I may have fitted a larkspur set if I had one but I dont. The experts will notice that it should not be there, but Jo public will not have a clue, and I just want to be different, as time goes on I may do something else.  I have considered a front mount antenna , and have been offered one in exchange for the larkspur, and I may still go with this option. Back to the ATU, I did not want to remove the tool mounts at this stage, and if I do then I will put rubber blanking plugs in and the ATU will sit better.

The D Rings did not fit due to the winch, even thought the winch mount plates are shaped like the D ring base plate, I can tell you they did not fit, so as my friends Dormobiles got the D Rings on the front ( and passed a QLD roadworthy ) we went for that option.  Again as time moves on and I can put them in the proper place I will, as for the winch, I think it looks fantastic, I have never seen a Workshop with a winch, so mines a bit different, and thats what I was aiming for.

We now have a modified section for land rovers, maybe I should be in there?

At the end of the day, I have done what I wanted to do, knowing full well what should be the correct period fittings etc, I have done this to please me, no one else, its my land rover and like someone else said I could paint it pink if I wanted. 

At least I have taken the time to restore this land rover and share my journey.  And now people know why I have deviated form what should be original.

Wait until its towing a British army cooks or Electrical trailer.....  I will be in the brigg for that....

[Diana Alan]

Diana

No S3 brackets. The dumb irons are standard S2A. The actual 'late' S2A brush bar is the same as the S3.

This photo shows 180-899 after I dropped the original 'late' S2A brush bar so that I could clean out the mud muck. The other photo shows a new bumper with replacement S3 bar after cutting off the lifting eye protectors. The S3 bar bolted straight up to the dumbirons without any problems . 

Hi Tommy

I was confused I thought you were talking about the bumper bar, while you were actually talking about the brushguard.  Yes I was aware that the suffix H SIIa brushguard was a modification of the design of the earlier SIIa brushguard to allow for unobstructed  headlamps.

The Suffix H SIIa brushguards were modified again for the SIII by the addition of the "U" shaped flat bar protrusions above the lifting points.

Diana

BTW Pete, maybe these bar discussions should be moved to a separate technical discussion.

[Diana Alan]

Tommy

Here are some images of my bumper bar, just to clarify about the different mountings.

Top view of the chassis dumb irons and extension brackets, there are no tabs on bar and no bolts here to bolt bar onto chassis. (Note no bolts through extensions because they are welded onto chassis)


The protruding flat bar over the lifting points.


Three of the four bolts holding the bumper bar (and exhaust protection bar) onto the chassis extension brackets.  The fourth is hiden behind D shackle.


Only the SIII civilian bumper bars are the same/similar to SIIa bumper bars.

Diana

[juddy]

whats the 2 holes for in the first picture?

[Diana Alan]

whats the 2 holes for in the first picture?

I would imagine the chassis extension brackets were designed to be bolted on, however when the lifting rings were invisaged the bolts were insufficient to support the weight of the vehicle so the brackets were welded on in production.

I plan to install the bolts when I retrofit the Bamford winch.

[juddy]

ah I see.

and all those spider webs, is it in a bat cave?