What weapons are these?

[Diana Alan]

I'm researching my SADF SIIB Radio Relay Truck and came across this image.



What are the weapons leaning up against the side of the truck?

[Mike C]

I think the South African R1, the SA version of the FN-FAL, which we and the Brits know as the Rifle, Self Loading, 7.62mm, L1A1 - the 'SLR'. The versions of the SLR produced in different countries all differ slightly, but are all based on the FN-FAL. Known disparagingly as the 'Mechanical Musket' - a term I disagree with greatly, having owned and fired an FN-FAL, and fired the Aussie L1A1 many times. I liked the weapon.

Mike C

[Diana Alan]

Thanks Mike

I know quite a few current and former soldiers who preferred the SLR over the Styr so so you're not an isolated opinion.

Diana 

[bobslandies]

Could be original FNs - I think the SA version (R1) had a black nylon?? or plastic stock. R2 has the folding skeleton stock. For close use the 223 was found to be much better (and you could carry more ammunition). SA later adopted it in the R4.

Bob

[mzungumagic]

As Mike said, the weapons are SLRs or the FN FAL.  I've never heard the term "mechanical muskets" despite a bit of experience with these weapons and would also say that it was not a fair description of the rifle.  It was simple, very effective and a favourite with the troops.

The calibre was was very suitable for a military weapon and these days, it seems that there is something of a trend to revert from 5.56mm to 7.62mm, or at least include some of the larger calibre weaponry in combat groups, when it may be needed.

Interestingly, I believe both sides in the Falklands War used this rifle as their basic infantry weapon.  The difference was that the Argentines had the automatic version.  All things being equal (which they weren't), it should have made a major difference.

I've seen the plastic stocked weapon in use with the Ghurkas.


Jack

[Mike C]

The Argentine's standard FN-FAL was a selective fire rifle: safe, semi-auto, full auto. The Brit's (et al) opted for safe and semi-auto only in the L1A1 version. I agree with you about 'knock down power': even Vietnam vets maintain the 7.62 was a better weapon for shooting through jungle and still knocking down the enemy - but it came with a weight penalty when compared with the M16A1.

Mechanical musket was, I gather, a Brit term that came into use at the time of transition from bolt action .303 to semi-auto 7.62. Quoted in Swenson's, 1971, book on the history of the rifle.

Mike C

[rednjoey]

If there is one thing I love as much as old Land Rovers, its old 7.62 mm Military rifles like these.

Being hit by a projectile from one of these would be the ballistic equivalent of being run down by a Series Land Rover

If only......

[AGAS 5]

I loved the SLR...  my 300m group was about 70-80mm 👍 Nowadays with the Steyr it's about 103mm ... with a scope .... go figure !! 👀

I think it's because you realy had to apply the theory of small arms fire with the SLR ... if you didn't, there was a good chance you'd miss the target !!

By far the biggest butt kicking, hip slapping kickback I've ever fealt was fireing the grenade from the SLR... that ballistite cartridge was on steroids I reckon !! 😝

Pete

[Barefoot dave]

Ahh 7.62 RlsNATO, back in the days when you didn't need a CNS hit to slow them down.
When my mates got bumped in Somalia, it took all of 2 seconds to decide which was better!
After engaging the patrol, old mate took 7 rounds to the CoSM and kept running. Didn't survive, but he could still shoot as he ran away.
1 tap with the SLR and it would have been a different matter.
In the firefights, the psycological effect of crack-thump, crack-thump BOOM- Thud when a 30.06 Garand came into play was huge on our fellas.
Took until Op Anaconda until the big boys took note of a one sided firefight with the Red team dancing around laughing 600m out, as the 5.56 dropped short or (barely) harassed only, and they returned with 7.63x39 

Funny about the Argis haveing full auto. I did too, when I had a match stick, 1minute and no-one was watching. 3 round bursts, no panic mags and you didn't need the weight penalty of an L2A1.If you could even convince the system a very long range patrol needed something more than Semi and a Wombat gun!
IIRC, there may have even been a couple of L2A1 select fire assemblies around the traps for 'Stay behind operations'.

Hands up the Infanteers that are twitching every time they look at the OP photo and see the rifles leaning against the vehicles?
 

[Mick]

Hey Barefoot Dave,

Hilarious post mate, the SLR and match stick, the panic mag, and a rifle lent up against a vehicle - classic post mate. You got a laugh outta me. They were the days.
Cheers,

MICK

[Barefoot dave]

Cheers Mick.
Glad to get a smile.
Dave.

[John H]

Dave,they issued us with a box of 50 warerproof matches that rarely worked for their intended use.They were a good thing to make a RAEME range shoot finish quicker.I probably followed the same drills as many others,only with the support of the senior armourer.Stories of the 50cal can wait till an appropriate post.