Author Topic: Photo research: SVN and other in-service pix  (Read 76035 times)

Offline Carzee

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Re: Photo research: SVN and other in-service pix
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2013, 06:44:59 PM »
Scott sent me the link to the 4RAR Museum:



I think a photo search of the AWM On line would bring up similar.

But for orders - commander dairies for Borneo/Malaya:

This overview http://www.awm.gov.au/atwar/emergency.asp

links to same familiar minesite
http://www.awm.gov.au/collection/records/awm95/

Tommy

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Re: Photo research: SVN and other in-service pix
« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2013, 07:27:35 PM »
I found these photos taken during the Vietnam War.

All the Land Rovers on board HMAS Sydney appear to have the windscreen bars. Interestingly, some bars have been applied vertically and some horizontally.

There are different coloured bars:

Pink?, red, pink?
Lime green, white, lime green
Red, blue, red





This workshop retains it's windscreen bars. Yellow, brown?, yellow.



Whereas this workshop has the bars painted on it's guard side panel. GS also has the same bars.





This photo shows equipment unloaded from the Jeparit in 2AODs depot. Note the bars on the wooden crate. Black, red, black.







« Last Edit: May 06, 2013, 07:32:37 PM by Tommy »

Offline Mike C

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Re: Photo research: SVN and other in-service pix
« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2013, 04:40:19 AM »
The three colour bar system & unit four-digit designator was for all Unit equipment and personal baggage, hence all items large and small were supposed to be marked in this way. Thus the box marked with the three colour bars.

Great images!

Mike C

Offline Carzee

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Re: Photo research: SVN and other in-service pix
« Reply #18 on: May 12, 2013, 09:58:15 AM »
Thanks Mike. Those colour bars would be in orders, perhaps movement order SOPs -- ? -- are they somewhere in stack at the AWM or with the Navy records for those SVN cargo manifests (? perhaps listing vehicles transported and destination unit?)

Offline Carzee

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Re: Photo research: SVN and other in-service pix
« Reply #19 on: May 12, 2013, 10:13:02 AM »
This photo's always been a tad mysterious:



Formation tac is 1ALSG. Unit tac is RAAOC under a 410 which is 709 Sigs.
At the same time its got a flashing beacon on the guard and signage for EOD: Explosive Ordnance Det./Depot/Disposal/Delivery (?something like that).

Offline Mike C

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Re: Photo research: SVN and other in-service pix
« Reply #20 on: May 12, 2013, 01:56:40 PM »
Explosive Ordnance Disposal - its a 'priority' sign to ensure speedy access in an emergency (like when someone reports a bomb/dud/etc)

C4 was regularly used by US infantry in small chunks cut from the larger block as a heating fuel for rations: it burned far hotter than Hexamine, so the process was quicker. I suppose the practice caught on to the point where the powers that be objected. An infantry Coy would go through a lot of C4 on a patrol if used in place of hexamine on a regular basis.

Smoke Grenades were used to mark a spot on the ground, then the pilot would be zeroed to the enemy by radio directions, eg 'Confirm yellow... Yellow confirmed ...Roger Bushranger 24 ... place ordnance 200 plus of my smoke' etc

Mike C

Offline Carzee

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Re: Photo research: SVN and other in-service pix
« Reply #21 on: May 12, 2013, 05:26:36 PM »
Thx Mike re the C4 and the EOD.

Re the photo,

the EOD tac is what I don't understand. Ordnance Corps ok, but the Sig det. ref?

Also, the EOD Landy is a 1967 manuf. and
Landy 3/4 ton GS 114-340 is not noted as "less doors, canopy, bows & tailgate" in the BBB...
Landy 3/4 ton GS 114-339 is noted as "less doors, canopy, bows & tailgate" in the BBB.

These two Landys make the case that the Landy entries in the BBB marked "less doors, canopy, bows & tailgate" were not the only ones to go on the VTF, although by '67 I had thought they all had those canopy parts removed as a default.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2013, 09:00:05 AM by Carzee »

Offline Mike C

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Re: Photo research: SVN and other in-service pix
« Reply #22 on: May 13, 2013, 01:34:21 AM »
The notations in the BBB are far from perfect, so I don't think this is sufficient proof on its own that complete Land Rovers were still being sent to SVN alongside the stripped version. Images taken aboard HMAS Sydney would be the best bet to resolve that question, but the image in question sure does make the case for both 'types' being shipped.

Yes, now you point it out: the 410 etc is a bit of a 'mish mash' from what we currently know. This deserves some digging....

The colour bar system was the continuation of what was used in WW2. Each unit had its own four (or, in WW2, up to 6) digit unit code assigned by HQ, and the colours for each numeral were a table published by HQ. While the colours were specified, the actual shade of a colour varied from application to application. Upon being signaled for embarkation, units simply equated the last two figures of their unit code with the three bars required, and painted these onto the equipment, baggage, etc. They were supposed to be removed once landed, but were often left in place. Placement was also specified (horizontal bars, number above, on the windscreen, left side for B Vehs), but was often not followed, with placement being almost at random. I have a list of the digit (0 to 9) and corresponding colour somewhere - give me time and I'll find it.

A book was released recently in the USA that 'decodes' the colour bar system used by US Forces on D Day. Surprise! It is the British Commonwealth system that had been in use since the beginning of the war 're-invented' by the US Army for the D-Day landings with some minor tweaking.

Tommy: nice shot taken from Sydney of Replenishment at Sea (RAS) operations: Sydney, then the Oiler (HMAS Supply?) then a Brit-designed escort  - maybe Vampire, Vendetta, etc? You do pop up with some interesting images! 

Mike C

OK: found it (the index must be better than I thought!)
1 = Red, Bright, GS
2= Blue, GS
3=Yellow
4=Green, Light, GS
5=Grey
6=Buff, GS
7=Red oxide of iron (which is dark red, I think)
8=Service Colour, GS (whatever that is!)
9= White
0=Brown, Dark, GS

Three bars are: last two digits of the unit serial number. The 'tens' appears twice, above and below the single digit, eg unit serial '6549' would have a three colour bar of
Green, Light GS (4)
over White (9)
over Green, Light GS (4).

Clear as mud, eh??

Mike C
« Last Edit: May 13, 2013, 01:50:51 AM by Mike C »

Offline Carzee

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Re: Photo research: SVN and other in-service pix
« Reply #23 on: May 13, 2013, 09:20:21 AM »
"Tommy: You do pop up with some interesting images!" - Mike C.

I'll toast that! And ZuluDelta (Glen H) probably has as many too. And there are others as well - we are grateful for sure.

In both the photos of the RAS, many of the Landys have ropes over the canopys.
?



I've looked at them and I guess its either a safety measure in case of a typhoon or anti-pilfering.
Anyone else have a guess?

Off topic, but ...
Mike I notice the AWM collection search function throws up many references to their 8mm films or home movies of SVN theatre.

To your knowledge was there a digital transferal project put on the agenda. Perhaps AWM could have its own channel on Youtube or similar?
Have any been done or only the official PR stuff?

Offline Carzee

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Re: Photo research: SVN and other in-service pix
« Reply #24 on: May 13, 2013, 10:03:54 AM »
Thanks carzee

The Land Rover is British MoD, did ours go over also or only the trucks?

Yes we had Landys there for FARELF in the mid sixties '64.'65.'66 but earlier on I think its possible we had some MOD gear on loan.
I think its a question for the 4RAR people. IMHO the whole campaign is not given much coverage; the bit on the AWM is about all I've seen to date.

Offline Mike C

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Re: Photo research: SVN and other in-service pix
« Reply #25 on: May 13, 2013, 11:31:55 AM »
Carzee....

"Off topic, but ...
Mike I notice the AWM collection search function throws up many references to their 8mm films or home movies of SVN theatre.

To your knowledge was there a digital transferal project put on the agenda. Perhaps AWM could have its own channel on Youtube or similar?
Have any been done or only the official PR stuff?"

Short answer is I do not know: suggest you send a query to the Photo Film and Sound section Duty Curator at photographs@awm.gov.au

Mike C





Offline master chief

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Re: Photo research: SVN and other in-service pix
« Reply #26 on: May 13, 2013, 11:52:02 AM »
"Tommy: You do pop up with some interesting images!" - Mike C.

I'll toast that! And ZuluDelta (Glen H) probably has as many too. And there are others as well - we are grateful for sure.

In both the photos of the RAS, many of the Landys have ropes over the canopys.
?



I've looked at them and I guess its either a safety measure in case of a typhoon or anti-pilfering.
Anyone else have a guess?

Off topic, but ...
Mike I notice the AWM collection search function throws up many references to their 8mm films or home movies of SVN theatre.

To your knowledge was there a digital transferal project put on the agenda. Perhaps AWM could have its own channel on Youtube or similar?
Have any been done or only the official PR stuff?

Hello All,

Hey Carzee, I would think the ropes are to prevent the canvas from becoming sails in the event of a stiff ocean breeze!, note the workshop canvas in the middle front of the pic is already suffering the normal gap between the concertiena (spelling!) and the over flap, it should be neatly tucked under but they never seem to stay there.

MC
2A Workshop 172-559 Tasman Warrior

Tommy

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Re: Photo research: SVN and other in-service pix
« Reply #27 on: May 13, 2013, 06:18:54 PM »
Note that one Land Rover has it's headlights covered as well. I would presume that all would have the same treatment.

Offline Carzee

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Re: Photo research: SVN and other in-service pix
« Reply #28 on: May 14, 2013, 08:54:44 AM »
Why the headlight glass but not the windscreen glass?

Definitely some strange goings on for sea movement of vehicles (as mentioned before) the horn removed, the blinkers greased, etc.

Tommy

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Re: Photo research: SVN and other in-service pix
« Reply #29 on: May 14, 2013, 06:14:47 PM »
Why the headlight glass but not the windscreen glass?

Definitely some strange goings on for sea movement of vehicles (as mentioned before) the horn removed, the blinkers greased, etc.

Surely there would have been an official directive from the bosses upstairs in relation to these protective methods. All we need to do now is find the piece of paper they were written on.