Registry of Ex Military Land Rovers
Vehicle Variants => Hard Topped Vehicles => Topic started by: Tommy on April 12, 2013, 08:26:30 PM
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In another thread, Juddy asked if any hardtop Carryalls were used in Vietnam.
The following photos show these vehicles in SVN.
112-829 (thanks Glen :) )
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Hardtop12_zps69c8f9c5.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Hardtop6_zpsd77ec0d6.jpg)
Interestingly, this 1964 Land Rover was 'disposed of' in 1968. A short four year service. As a relatively new vehicle, it could only have been 'struck off charge' due to a serious accident.
The hardtop on the Land Rover shown below looks identical to that of 112-829 (no window glass and rear door). Was this hardtop removed from 112-829 after an accident? The Land Rover the hardtop is sitting on is 114-4?8. I believe the vehicles have been prepared for repatriation back to Australia.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Hardtop8_zpsb8ef8064.jpg)
The following photo shows a Panel Van at a US airbase in SVN. No ARN unfortunately.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Hardtop7_zps871a36c5.jpg)
This Panel Van is seen parked outside the FWMAO Building: Free World Military Assistance Organisation building in Saigon, SVN. There appears to be a second white roof hardtop Land Rover in the centre of the five Land Rovers located to the right corner of the parking lot.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Hardtop4_zpsa7310094.jpg)
This military Carryall was commandeered to perform Royal Mail duties during it's time in SVN.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/1AFHPersonnel0011_zps366780a3.jpg)
The following photos show civilian hardtop land Rovers in SVN. It would be easy to misidentify these vehicles as military as they were seen in all areas of the Australian involvement in SVN.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Hardtop9_zps87d3a61c.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Hardtop3_zps6344ba44.jpg)
Sign on side of hardtop says - ???? of Australia. Any ideas?
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Hardtop2_zps40a19d56.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Hardtop10_zpsfe3a42b2.jpg)
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Great words and pictures Tommy, thanks for sharing...
Was the carryall continued with the Series 3 and late series 2a?
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YMCA
JAYCEES
ASLSC -- it is a beach is it not? Badcoe Club?
ASLSC is mentioned in awm95-4-4-33.pdf of may68
From the same para in the doc above, could also be these initials:
AFVAAWU
"AFV Amenities And Welfare Unit" at the Armed Forces (Badcoe) Club."
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Hardtop2_zps40a19d56.jpg)
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(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Hardtop10_zpsfe3a42b2.jpg)
A: News story: Demonstration of SLR strength - "Even when wedged against the back of a Land-Rover being winched, the heavy duty SLR doesn't not budge".
B: Officer wearing his beret like an idiot is invited by fellow officers to fix it with a nearby SLR...
C: Officers turn away and enjoy the joke when a nearby sailor parades without long pants.
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Between the silly hat and the silly smile and glasses is a view of a Landy.
Is the thing above it a 106 barrel with cover or someone's arm and shirt sleeve?
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See, also, M&D pages 26, 158, 167, for more on hard tops in SVN.
Interestingly, the hardtops in the image on page 26 belonged to the Dental Unit, which correlates nicely with one of 'Tommy's' images.
Mike C
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It is a gun buggy cheers Dennis
Ps either going to Sth Vietnam or returning,,. DCH-534 early Sallymans vehicle???.
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I was of the understanding that the windowless carryalls, were actually nomenaclatured as Panel Vans?
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Also, on the "Non Army" vehicles, in the 108 range of registrations there is a number of US vehicles "borrowed" for use in the vietnam warand retrned afterwards. 108-651 and 108-652 belonged to Campaigners For Christ and the YMCA respectively. Both were nomenaclatured as carryalls.
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I was of the understanding that the windowless carryalls, were actually nomenaclatured as Panel Vans?
Changes made. Thanks Richard :)
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There are also Truck, Panel with window.
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DCH 534 was a Salvation Army vehicle. From Grenville Motors records.
Chassis 25303144a; Engine 25140672c; Ign Key FS 913, others 717, 707; Olympic All Purpose Lug (APL); to SALVATION ARMY; 3.9.63
Will have a look for any others.
Bob
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In another thread, Juddy asked if any hardtop Carryalls were used in Vietnam.
The following photos show these vehicles in SVN.
The following photos show civilian hardtop land Rovers in SVN. It would be easy to misidentify these vehicles as military as they were seen in all areas of the Australian involvement in SVN.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Hardtop9_zps87d3a61c.jpg)
This one is a Salvation Army vehicle - see red door decal. See also the Salvation Army decal on the map of Australia above the hut door.
This one too - see my previous post.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Hardtop10_zpsfe3a42b2.jpg)
Similar vehicles, both have civilian drop tow-plate - maybe as supplied and later ones were repainted OD?
Another vehicle supplied by Grenville Motors to the Salvation Army:
Chassis No 25316101C; Engine 25247354H; HardTop; Ign Key 914, others 717, 934; Olympic APL; Rego EEE285; Supplied 29/7/66. There is a notation that is "Recolour".
Bob
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Diannaa,
"There are also Truck, Panel with window": that's a new one to me: where did you see that, please?
Army lists as far as I'm aware, show either 'Truck, Carryall' and 'Truck, Panel' but I've not seen 'Truck, Panel with Window', for Series 2/2A, (which I suspect would really confuse the Ordnance Clerks!!)
The Salvoes 'sub-unit' that provided the Sallymen and their Land Rovers was 'Red Shield Defence Services'. There was an agreement between each Philanthropic organization and the Defence Department that governed what was supplied by each organisation, how the reps were paid, what was not supplied by Defence, and so on. They are quite detailed. The reason that the majority of organisations chose Land Rover is pretty obvious: the Defence logistic support that could be readily provided while in SVN.
Mike C
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Hi Mike,
I'm not sure if Diana was quoting a cencus or describing it.... I have found two within REMLR's cencus list that fit such a description:
6100B Truck, Panel, 3/4 Ton, GS, Sig Centre Notes: Was Carryall instead of panel
6100C Truck, Panel, 3/4 Ton, GS, With Winch, Sig Centre Notes: Was Carryall instead of panel
If these have were to have Truck Panel on the vehicles cencus plate, but were infact a Carryall (windows), then Diana's description would be appropriate I think.
Cheers,
Pete
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I wasn't aware of any windowed panel census, that is a carryall by definition I thought....
The census lists are transcribed from the book holding ALL census codes, only some are used for land rovers. The book at bandiana makes for interesting reading actually (We have an electronic copy thanks to bandiana in the form of photos of each page).
The ones noted as being, was this or that, is where the census codes have been changed with changes in vehicles I believe. IE, they got new vehicles, and changed an old census instead of making a new one to apply to that vehicle. Or perhaps a wholesale change to a fleet, such as removing windows.
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found another angle, att to entertainment group
(http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4086/5062315022_1b51cc37a8_o.jpg)
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112-829 (thanks Glen :) )
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Hardtop12_zps69c8f9c5.jpg)
A friend was in the 33rd Dental Unit - the Vietnamese were awed by the fact we had thirty-three dental units and must have had an enormous army! The dentists and techs went along with it except some vietnamese wag explained that Aussies had rotten teeth.
Bob
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I have been looking over commander diaries in the AWM collection and read that (contrary to what would be expected), the Topo Survey variant was not used in SVN...
...by "Section A 1 Topographical Survey Troop RASC" which had a manned strength varying between 15 and 20 (total Officers and OR).
There are detailed monthly diaries from arrival in country in late May '66 until RTA in late Sept '71. The annexes detail all the tasks and items in their stores.
On June 7 '66, at 1500hrs, after the unloading of HMAS Sydney at 1200hrs, they get their vehicles which are 2 x 3/4 ton Landrovers and "4 trailers cargo". The Landy ARNs are 111-434 (6006) and 113-130 (6028). Trailer ARNs are not noted. The unit loaded them direct from their Randwick on May 23rd.
In July of '69 the 113-130 (6028) is in a MVA and gets a BLR. In Aug '69 a replacement vehicle "was received" and its 174-406 (6028) complete with "Part 1, CES 2007".
In Sept of 71 the troop gets their RTA order and mentions the 2 x 3/4 ton vehicles but not the specific ARNs. IMHO its safe to assume they are 111-434 and 174-406.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-vK5hbKR07w0/UW_bdqkeuFI/AAAAAAAAC_g/meDfR31-VyM/s1024/1Topo-rta-30sep71.jpg)
I find it curious that they didn't use at least one Topo Landy.
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The code 6006 doesn't sit well with me, what with the Unit being a Survey Unit. 6006 and most of its derivatives usually mean a FFR/ FFT (depending on the equipment it carried) and I can't see much necessity for a specialised radio vehicle such as that being of any benefit to a Surveyor.
Some of the 6028 range would fit nicely, perhaps someone a bit slack left the last letter off the census code???
The photograph of the carryall on the back of the Mk 3 on the back of the trailer fits in well with the quotation;
"In July of '69 the 113-130 (6028) is in a MVA and gets a BLR. In Aug '69 a replacement vehicle "was received" and its 174-406 (6028) complete with "Part 1, CES 2007"."
(http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/glenpats/0026_P182_zps00938956.jpg) (http://s262.photobucket.com/user/glenpats/media/0026_P182_zps00938956.jpg.html)
I would suggest that perhaps that carryall may have belonged to the Survey Corps, perhaps the boss had a toothache and his vehicle was photographed outside the Dental Unit, and photographed again at Nui Dat after he had recovered, (More plausible than the dentist travelling up to the Dat to do a job when his more comfortable surgery was at Vungers) and that this vehicle was the one that was involved in an accident and RTA'd under BLR and once again photographed in transit from the Ordnance Depot to its awaiting homeward transport.
Someone somewhere looks to have left a letter off the census code in some part of the recording process.
The photograph Mike C referred to on p26, to me, shows a different coloured roof (white ivory) compared to the pictured vehicle's O/D.
Regards
Glen
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I have been looking over commander diaries in the AWM collection and read that (contrary to what would be expected), the Topo Survey variant was not used in SVN...
...by "Section A 1 Topographical Survey Troop RASC" which had a manned strength varying between 15 and 20 (total Officers and OR).
There are detailed monthly diaries from arrival in country in late May '66 until RTA in late Sept '71. The annexes detail all the tasks and items in their stores.
On June 7 '66, at 1500hrs, after the unloading of HMAS Sydney at 1200hrs, they get their vehicles which are 2 x 3/4 ton Landrovers and "4 trailers cargo". The Landy ARNs are 111-434 (6006) and 113-130 (6028). Trailer ARNs are not noted. The unit loaded them direct from their Randwick on May 23rd.
In July of '69 the 113-130 (6028) is in a MVA and gets a BLR. In Aug '69 a replacement vehicle "was received" and its 174-406 (6028) complete with "Part 1, CES 2007".
In Sept of 71 the troop gets their RTA order and mentions the 2 x 3/4 ton vehicles but not the specific ARNs. IMHO its safe to assume they are 111-434 and 174-406.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-vK5hbKR07w0/UW_bdqkeuFI/AAAAAAAAC_g/meDfR31-VyM/s1024/1Topo-rta-30sep71.jpg)
I find it curious that they didn't use at least one Topo Landy.
I'm not sure if you have seen this document Carzee. It lists all units and year they were deployed to SVN. May help with your research.
Page 271 lists Det 1 Topo Svy Tp 66-71.
http://remlr.com/forum/index.php?topic=215.0
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Thx Tommy, those dates re Topo Survey Tp match up.
That is a great doc, good bit of reference (well, it doesn't get much better- it dates from May 72, a few weeks after the last to RTA, HQAFV 15mar72).
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Very dangerous thing, assumptions.....
113130 was pronounced BLR, but remained in SVN: written off 17/1/1972 by 2AOD, and junked at the US Produce office in VT.
111434, an FFR, was w/o in March 1969.
174406 was involved in an MVA in 1969 while serving with 26 Tpt Coy; transferred to 2AOD, reissued to 1 Topo Svy Coy as a replacement vehicle, who promptly pranged it in July 1970; replacement issued, pranged vehicle transferred to 2AOD as stock.
That leaves 1 Topo Svy with replacement transport from (1) March 69 and (2) July 70, for the rest of their tour.
Carzee states....
'The Topo Svy was not used in South Vietnam'[/i]: I think I listed that it was in the table in M&D: don't you believe me???????
Took me years to work out what 'BMSS' stood for!
Mike C
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So much for assumptions based on a unit diary.
In another thread we discussed that (some) specialist units repatriated their stores/vehicles differently; separated from other stores.
Other units returned their stores/vehicles to 2AOD before RTA.
Mike has supplied 2AOD info that 1 Topo no longer had the vehicles mentioned by ARN in their unit diary up to Aug 69; that at some time after Aug 69 and during 70-71 they changed vehicles. Cool.
Why they did not list the specific ARNs of those vehicles when shipping their stores/vehicles back to Sydney is anyone's guess. They recorded the vehicles ARN when they left Sydney, but when they return, they bring 2 replacement vehicles ARNs unk.
Back to the table in the book, as yet I haven't got M&D.
Now I have the book and the tables say... 3 Topos, 5 Panels, 4 Carryalls (deployed w dental detachmt).
(http://www.newholland.com.au/products/images/9781741107678.jpg)
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BMSS
Brewing Machine Stainless Steel?
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:)
Boxes Metal Shipping Steel
http://www.awm.gov.au/glossary/result.asp?browse=b (http://www.awm.gov.au/glossary/result.asp?browse=b)
Pete
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Funny, I thought it was...
Boxes, Metal, Steel, Shipping.
ie What it is,
What its made of
What type of metal
what its for...
Mike C
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I suspect we are really talking about footlockers?
That would imply the current NSN would say "box, plastic, plastic, shipping"?
http://www.frsa.com.au/index.php/472-ftlk-1-footlocker.html (http://www.frsa.com.au/index.php/472-ftlk-1-footlocker.html) (example supplier)
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A 260 cubic foot foot locker would carry a lot of personal gear, close to 7400litres. Perhaps issued to a civvy female it may be adequate.
Regards
Glen
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A 260 cubic foot foot locker would carry a lot of personal gear, close to 7400litres. Perhaps issued to a civvy female it may be adequate.
Regards
Glen
No, I'm thinking a few pallets or stacks of the unit FLs. FL are not itemised anywhere else I see.
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BMSS
Brewing Machine Stainless Steel?
Bloody Military Senseless Slang ::)
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The hardtop on the Land Rover shown below looks identical to that of 112-829 (no window glass and rear door). Was this hardtop removed from 112-829 after an accident? The Land Rover the hardtop is sitting on is 114-4?8. I believe the vehicles have been prepared for repatriation back to Australia.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Hardtop8_zpsb8ef8064.jpg)
Another shot of the same hardtop.
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A 260 cubic foot foot locker would carry a lot of personal gear, close to 7400litres.
Regards
Glen
Like these Glen?
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The hardtop on the Land Rover shown below looks identical to that of 112-829 (no window glass and rear door). Was this hardtop removed from 112-829 after an accident? The Land Rover the hardtop is sitting on is 114-4?8. I believe the vehicles have been prepared for repatriation back to Australia.
<image removed>
Another shot of the same hardtop.
Actually I wonder if they removed the glass to prevent glass shrapnel injuries and reduce the heat inside the vehicles?
Glass is incredibly difficult to identify in a wound.
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BMSS
Ok I have a Diary doc from 1ALSG in June 1970 advising sub-units of incoming freight on the Jeparit.
Very interesting.
These BMSS items are big as ZD said. And in quantity. There is no way in hell they could be pallets of F/L, there's way way way too many.
So what was in them?
Speaking of quantity, there is a provision of beer...
Also of note are the Land-Rover Carry Alls and the um, Station Wagons (GMH? Ford?)
(http://camerajuice.com/110395/cargo-jeparit-jun70.jpg)
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G'day Carzee
At least one army spec Holden HD Station Wagon was sent to SVN. It could be this or other similar vehicle the document is refering to.
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More beer than soft drink! 8)
I rather think the Iraq and Afghanistan vets would be rather jealous.
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Remember that the VW vans were carryals, and we know of at least two of them that were sent as well.
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The document refers to the station wagons and carryalls being assigned to RAAF Units (2 Squadron and 1 Operational Services Unit), so Holdens/Fords for the S/Wagons and most probably VW Kombi Vans or possibly Internationals (AB 120?) for the carryalls.
The 'Ute 3/4 ton' is probably a Land Rover.
Mike C
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108-651...109...1966...Series 2A...6022...Truck, Carryall, 3/4 Ton, GS...Vehicle property of Campaigners For Christ.
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Belonged to the 'Everymans' organization, I think the mil support arm/alternate but more common name of Campaigners for Christ (like 'Red Shield' of the Salvoes). Shipped to SVN Oct 66 on Jeparit, RTA Oct 71 on Sydney. Listed on page 168 of M&D.
Getting back to 'BMSS' for just a moment, AGAS 5 was correct: it is the Box Metal Shipping Steel, NSN 8115-66-025-8558. It was 8 feet x 6 feet x 6 feet 4 inches, with a volume of 260 cubic feet (volume was mentioned in an earlier post). Cargo loading was maximum 10,000 pounds. Officially introduced into service in late 1967. 250 in the initial purchase.
Nice pic: as always, Tommy, you come up with some significant images!
Mike C
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Hardtop in background.
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Hardtop on the Vietnam bound HMAS Jeparit. Note the DBG ambulances.
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Fantastic photo there stuart!
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Also published on page 69 of 'Voyages to Vietnam'. Image credited to John Ferguson.
Mike C
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BMSS
Boxes Metal Shipping Steel
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From my previous post....
"Getting back to 'BMSS' for just a moment, AGAS 5 was correct: it is the Box Metal Shipping Steel, NSN 8115-66-025-8558. It was 8 feet x 6 feet x 6 feet 4 inches, with a volume of 260 cubic feet (volume was mentioned in an earlier post). Cargo loading was maximum 10,000 pounds. Officially introduced into service in late 1967. 250 in the initial purchase. "
Mike C
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Better photo of the Australian Royal mail hardtop. Note that the tropical roof has been painted white. This gives us a clue to identifying this vehicle in other photos such as the one posted below.
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Here is a single cab hard top in svn. With 86 transport.
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t156/ice_spy/Mobile%20Uploads/SmartSelectImage_2016-11-14-16-34-39.png) (http://s159.photobucket.com/user/ice_spy/media/Mobile%20Uploads/SmartSelectImage_2016-11-14-16-34-39.png.html)