Registry of Ex Military Land Rovers
Vehicle Variants => 106 MM RCL, aka The Gunbuggy => Topic started by: Tommy on May 21, 2012, 04:56:52 PM
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ARN 110-
110-395, 110-412, 110-423, 110-447, 110-501, 110-506, 110-518, 110-537, 110-542, 110-715, 110-720, 110-724, 110-776, 110-780, 110-785, 110-786, 110-797, 110-807, 110-849
ARN 111-
111-132, 111-552, 111-578, 111-613, 111-650, 111-660, 111-661
ARN 112-
112-243, 112-245, 112-246, 112-253, 112-254, 112-255, 112-256, 112-257, 112-258, 112-259, 112-325, 112-333, 112-334, 112-335, 112-336, 112-337, 112-371, 112-372, 112-373, 112-374,
112-375, 112-376, 112-377, 112-378, 112-379, 112-510, 112-512, 112-514, 112-516, 112-517, 112-578, 112-655, 112-722, 112-723, 112-724, 112-725, 112-726, 112-727, 112-728, 112-729
112-730, 112-731, 112-732, 112-733, 112-734
ARN 113-
113-253
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110-395
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/110-395g_zps90f2d16c.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/110-395b.jpg)
The following two images courtesy of Carzee :)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/110-395e_zpsd4239186.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/110-395f_zps1e55c061.jpg)
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110-412
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/110-412.jpg)
110-447
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/110-447CRGB_zps3bf3ee00.jpg)
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110-506
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/104Sigs-35_16.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/104Sigs-35_16a.jpg)
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110-518
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/110-518.jpg)
110-537
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/110-537_zpsb97ec4e7.jpg)
110-715
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/110-715_zps92117a56.jpg)
110-724
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112-724.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112-724a.jpg)
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110-786
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/110-7863.jpg)
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110-797
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/110-797b.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/110-797a.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/110-797d.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/110-797c.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/110-797.jpg)
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110-807
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/110-807.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/110-807a.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/110-807h_zpscd3c5ce4.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/110-807c.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/110-807g.jpg)
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(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/110-807b.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/110-807e.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/110-807f.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/110-807daa.jpg)
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110-849
Image courtesy of Carzee :)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/wl-lue-auction-gb_zpsb0251f6e.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/110-849.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/110-849a.jpg)
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111-552
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/111-552a_zps51397d6b.jpg)
111-578
Sitting in 87 Transport Platoons yard, SVN.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/111-578n_zps1fcfacbf.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/111-578l_zpsbc1e1cb5.jpg)
Without cable deflector/cutter post.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/111-578b.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/mpviet6.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/111-578h.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/111-578ii.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/111-578j.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/111-578a.jpg)
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With cable deflector/cutter post.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/111-5782.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/111-578.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/111-578d.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/111-578f.jpg)
"When 1 Coy and 87 left country they were replaced by 5 Coy and most of the vehicles were passed on (except for the teaspoons - they were replaced by F2 tippers) and the Tac sign showing on the left guard of this vehicle is the SAIF (Stay Alive In Five) Turtle emblem that this unit adopted."- Zulu Delta 534
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies/112-378.jpg)
On HMAS Sydney with 106mm RCL.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/111-578Sydney_zps682404c0.jpg)
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111-613
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/111-613.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/111-613c.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/111-613b.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/111-613d.jpg)
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111-660
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/111-660a.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/111-660fdf.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/111-660b.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/111-660dd.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/111-660ddf.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/111-660.jpg)
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111-661
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/111-661.jpg)
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112-245
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies/112-245.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112-245b_zps8e435908.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112-245a_zps85c50c4a.jpg)
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112-257
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112-257.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112-257a.jpg)
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112-258
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112-258.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112-258a.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112-258b.jpg)
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112-259
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112-259.jpg)
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112-333
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112-333.jpg)
112-335
As found on a Toodyay farm June 2012.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/112-335.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/112-335a.jpg)
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112-336
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112-336.jpg)
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112-337
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112-337.jpg)
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112-372
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112-372d.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112-372.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112-372a.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112-372b.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112-372c.jpg)
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112-373
In SVN.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/GB112-373_zps78bb1f4b.jpg) (http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/GB1_zpscf101a6b.jpg)
Fremantle, WA.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies/112-373.jpg)
Perth, WA.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/lr1.jpg)
112-375
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112-375_zpscef86d97.jpg)
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112-376
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112-376.jpg)
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112-510
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies/112-510.jpg)
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112-512
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112512low.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112-512d_zpsb67f2a2f.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112-512b.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112-512c.jpg)
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112-516
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies/v106rcl.jpg)
112-516 is the lead vehicle.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112516a.jpg)
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112-517
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112-517e_zpscc145118.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112-512a.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112-512.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112-517b_zpsffbcd2f0.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112-517a_zps6666067f.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112-517b_zps901a4e79.jpg)
We know this Gunbuggy is 112-517 as it has exactly the same paint scratch on the aluminium plate cover over the fuel cap on the RHS of tub as shown in the photo above.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112-517a_zpsbaffe83e.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112517low.jpg)
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112-655
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies/112-655a.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112-6552.jpg)
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112-722
In service, SVN.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies/112-722a.jpg)
As it looks today.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/glen_1_zpsf943c217.jpg)
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112-723
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112-723.jpg)
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112-724
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112-724s_zpsde550953.jpg)
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112-725
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112-725a.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112-725.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112-725b.jpg)
112-727
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/112-727_zps592503c1.jpg)
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112-728
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112-728_zpsdc060cb4.jpg)
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112-729
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112-729.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112-729aa_zps6ec53d05.jpg)
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112-730
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112-730g.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112-730b.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112-730.jpg)
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112-731
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112-731.jpg)
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112-733
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112-733a.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112-733b.jpg)
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113-253
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/113-253a.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/113-253aa_zps2b172ffe.jpg)
Soldiers posing in front of 113-253. You can just make out the '113-' on the ARN plate.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/bairnsdale20106rcls.jpg)
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Just a quick interruption in this thread to say THANKS TOMMY!
Of the variants available I lean slightly towards the Gunbuggy as being the best (in my opinion, some may already know of my favouritism!)
Recording them like this is brilliant, the fact you have collected (in most cases) multiple photos of vehicl es in service and out gives a great snapshot of these
in service and in different stages of service. For a variant with (I believe) only 69 units manufactured they are a rare and valuable piece of our history..
(That said If anyone finds one, trust me you dont want it...just ring me...anytime....... ::) )
Cheers Again.
Digger
:)MMMM GUN BUGGY MMMM :)
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Tommy, where's that pic of the GB with the .30 cal?
That's the one I like best!!!
Digger....I'm getting the next one!!
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G'day all,
the picture your refering to, is in the Anzac steel website, cheers Dennis
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Gunbuggies mounting the 106mm Recoilless Rifle. ARNs unknown.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/16880_1204274028270_1271194799_486768_3874297_n.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/image-277775289.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/aaa.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/dv.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/gun20buggy.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/DSC_6142.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/gbs.jpg)
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(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/qq.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/P06259.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/landrover16.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/lrswb14.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/lrswb2a09.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/lrswb2a10a.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/gga.jpg)
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(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/z104Sigs_68-4.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112-373.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112-512.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112-512a.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112-729a.jpg)
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Gunbuggies mounting the M60 MG. ARNs unknown.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/mpviet6.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/mpviet8.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/q1.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/sports-car.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/unknown.jpg)
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(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/ConvoyNuiDat01.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/87TPTJOHNGUNJEEP.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/4205150853_59af5b8cbf_b.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/320AussiesBRobinson.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/buuuu1.jpg)
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(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/gunbuggy1.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/wrviet6.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/wrviet5.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/z01.jpg)
Dash mounted .30cal MG.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/lrswb2a10.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/lrswb2a11.jpg)
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Gunbuggies without weapons. ARNs unknown.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/LR0005.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/LR00062a.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/bug.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/30_1.jpg)
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Miscellaneous.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/2120Cammo20or20Vine.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/Tailendofconvoyof62truckstoNuiDat1968.jpg)
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Gunbuggies mounting the 106mm Recoilless Rifle. ARNs unknown.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/16880_1204274028270_1271194799_486768_3874297_n.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/image-277775289.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/aaa.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/dv.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/gun20buggy.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/DSC_6142.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/gbs.jpg)
SA4 belongs to Richard (69gs elsewhere) so the arn for that is available..
Thanks for the pics
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Tommy and Co, Great Images. :D :D :D I share your love of GB's guys.
Great motivation for a day of LR play.
R
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Hey Richard, which of your Gunbuggies is SA4....112-336 or 112-337?
Thanks for the heads-up Digger ;D
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A couple more...
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/New%202012/wal191.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/New%202012/Wal.jpg)
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Thanks for the great pictures.
Wayne
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Close-up of the pedestal mounted M60 on the Gunbuggy.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/M60a.jpg)
Same pedestal mounted M60 on the patrol GS. The pedestal has an inner sleeve so that it can rotate and extend. The round bar bracket that hold the ammo can appears to be made at unit level as it shows signs of basic engineering. The ammo can remains in a fixed position but the M60 can be elevated approx 45 degrees. Not sure how the belt feed is affected when in the fully elevated position. The white 'parade' rifle sling would hold the M60 in position whilst not in use. The Gunbuggy M60 has a more rudimentary cord type tie down.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/med_V55XuyenMoc3airfield-Jan1970.jpg)
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Can't believe how many pics of these you have tracked down ;D
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"Tommy"
On my 112-723 it appears that the firewall has been replaced in-service with a later model firewall, the type with the cable wipers and the OEM windscreen brackets have not been removed. My belief is that it was an in-service replacement because the firewall and ID plate have been overpainted OD and then subsequently in AusCam.
There are also bolt hole evidence of the MG mount on top of the firewall directly in front of the passenger, of the same type as seen on XXXXX.
In your photo investigation of unknown buggies, these two factors may be clues to the identity.
Diana
G'day Diana
Can you either email me or post up some photos of the bulkhead. It appears that the dash mounted MG was a very late modification/experiment and used prodominantly on AUSCAM Buggies such as 112-245, 112-725, 112-730 and 113-253. These Buggies tend to have the S3 jerry can holders mounted to the front bumper.
Stuart
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Can't believe how many pics of these you have tracked down ;D
Thats easy to answer....too much spare time on my hands :'(
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Too much spare time?
I got a LRPV and alot of sandpaper!
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On the old REMLR forum, the following photo of a Gunbuggy created some discussion in relation to it's ARN. After some valued opinions, it was decided that this Gunbuggies ARN was 110-501.
I now have a better quality photo that clearly shows the ARN as 110-506 :D. I have amended the ARN and posted this 'new' photo into post #4 of this thread.
Old photo.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/110-501a.jpg)
New photo.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/104Sigs-35_16a.jpg)
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Will take some images during the daytime, these ones I have had for a while, you can see the main bolt hole through the top rail, which seems very similar to a bracket I thought you posted some time ago.
Are you suggesting that the bracket is affiliated with the MG setup? If so, it surely must have an attachment to the top or front of the bulkhead for added strength. What does the bracket look like after the windscreen has been removed?
This is the Gunbuggy with the similar bracket 112-245. The dark fixture to the top of the bracket may be a simple rudimentary piece of 25mm water pipe or a home made platform bracket for the M60. It looks as if it may be in a vertical nose down position.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112-245.jpg)
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This second (poor) image shows the hole the bracket was bolted through the grab rail. There is a second rail that I feel may have been added post service as there was a similar item on Numpty's buggy.
I notice that Gunbuggy 110-849 has a very similar hole in it's dash. Same size and position but around 20cms to the right of yours. If you can gain access to this vehicle, it might pay to have a close look at this hole and any other associated holes. May give some idea of a MG setup.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/110-849dashhole.jpg)
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This second (poor) image shows the hole the bracket was bolted through the grab rail. There is a second rail that I feel may have been added post service as there was a similar item on Numpty's buggy.
(http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m2/Auntikinus/Rock%20Art/DSCN0308.jpg)
I notice that Gunbuggy 110-849 has a very similar hole in it's dash. Same size and position but around 20cms to the right of yours. If you can gain access to this vehicle, it might pay to have a close look at this hole and any other associated holes. May give some idea of a MG setup.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/110-849dashhole.jpg)
Isnt that hole a long way further right than on Diana's GB?
Cheers and loving the thread
Digger
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Most military GS vehicles including gun buggies have the hole in the dash that is pointed out by the arrow in the shot of 110 849 as it is a standard hole on a militarily modified 6005, drilled to receive a captive nut used to secure the added dash panel that carries the map light, map light switch and fuel gauge switch to the left of the original Rover dash panel, (missing on the vehicle in the photograph!). There should also be a hole in the bottom rail that secures the bottom edge of this panel as well.
112 722, Onslow has the remains of a swing away MG mount fitted to the left side of the firewall, bolted on where the door hinges originally fitted, but so far I haven't been able to find any supporting photos on the subject. One of the bods here at our local RSL was the Support Comany Sgt (first tour) and WO (2nd Tour) with Anti tank Platoon with 6 RAR and knows Onslow pretty well. I am pumping him for info.
Regards
Glen
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Here is a picture of the firewall in question, you can clearly see the hole.
Peter
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112 722, Onslow has the remains of a swing away MG mount fitted to the left side of the firewall, bolted on where the door hinges originally fitted, but so far I haven't been able to find any supporting photos on the subject. One of the bods here at our local RSL was the Support Comany Sgt (first tour) and WO (2nd Tour) with Anti tank Platoon with 6 RAR and knows Onslow pretty well. I am pumping him for info.
Glen
Can you post up a photo or two of the mount remains showing area around front and rear of bulkhead/dash?
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Here is a picture of the firewall in question, you can clearly see the hole.
Peter
Peter
I notice that there are no lower holes for the panel. It would seem that this Gunbuggy was never fitted with a panel.
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The top Right hand hole which is the larger of them all, if I remember correctly is used in a GS (and civvy 2 and 2a) vehicles to locate the panel that houses the vent controls. In a gunbuggy of course the vents are sealed in the closed position and the wipers relocated, therefore this hole wouldn't have been used in a S2 buggy.
Onslow only has the one screw in his map light panel on the top and it utilises this hole. There are two on the bottom. Daisy the 88"GS uses two holes, one sharing the vent control panel, and the other to the left hand side of the panel.
Onslow my gunbuggy has a pipe (swivel) mounted on the door hinge nuts (captive in the firewall) and on this was mounted an arm that came across the vehicle to a position in front of the crewie in the left seat, where there was another swivel upon which the GPMG mount was fitted. This is the best shot I have of what remains of it today and its raining at the moment, and I am not going to get soaked just for you Stuart, you will have to make do with this one.
(http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/glenpats/064.jpg)
My firewall, when I got the vehicle (first rego out of service) had one hell of a depression in the centre where the constant pounding of the 106 barrel over the most of its life had bent it into a banana shape. Not only was the top rail bent but the support under the barrel lock had transferred the impact to the lower level. Possibly one of the reasons that it was converted to a MG vehicle in its later portion of its 32 year service life. A bit of a job to straighten it all up.
Regards
Glen
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G'day All,
If we are talking about 110-849, it wouldn't have had a map light panel as it was originally a S2 C/R, my S2 C/R is ARN 110-850 cheers Dennis
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I found this photo showing the same hole on Richard Os Gunbuggy 112-337.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/Picture261low.jpg)
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Here is better picture of the bracket on Onslow.
Peter
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The MG bracket shown on the Gunbuggy above shows that it is secured by two bolts through the vent. My thoughts are that the two bolts holding your vent closed are the bolts that originally held the MG bracket in place. Same position and size :).
Stuart
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I am absolutely positive that your Buggy had exactly the same MG bracket. MG bracket holes always had vibration damage no matter how tight they were done up.
Stuart
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(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/Lavis-07.jpg)
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Thanks Stuart! :)
Any idea about the ARN of the DBG/CamoGreen camouflage painted buggy?
May give me an idea who's images I stole! :'(
Diana
You 'stole' them from here ::)
http://www.mvca.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?f=282&t=90
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110-720
Meandarra Museum
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/110-720a.jpg)
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This photo shows three Gunbuggies on convoy/patrol duties. The three are lined up next to each other. The Gunbuggy to the left has the M60 mount whilst the other two (centre and right) still retain their 106mm RCL.
Of note are the yellow triangle signs attached to the left Gunbuggys mud flaps. Maybe this denotes convoy lead vehicle.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/104Sigs_41-2.jpg)
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110-720
Meandarra Museum
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/110-720a.jpg)
Can anyone confirm the ARN of this museum Gunbuggy? It has late square cut guards which would put it in the '112-' ARNs. '110-' Gunbuggies would have the rounded guard wheel arch. It's possible the guards have been replaced.
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Stuart,
eagerly awaiting any GB news or pictures?? (hint hint) :)
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Yeah Stuart.....do tell!
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Yeah Stuart.....do tell!
OK I will ;D. Dang, theres someone at the door. I'll have to finish this story some other time Cliffy :P
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Arrgghh......c'mon man! I can tell by Digger's post you maybe onto something??!!
Don't keep us hanging!! :P
-
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/buga.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/fga.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/asdfsfAa.jpg)
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:-\ 112-72?
Having trouble reading the last digit on the ARN plate.
Doesn't look like 2, 4, 5, 7 or 9. 112-722, 112-723, 112-724, 112-725, 112-726, 112-727, 112-728 or 112-729
I'm leaning towards 6 or 8 (sorry Diana :().
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/4205947612_c6e357d0e7_oac.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/4205947612_c6e357d0e7_oaa.jpg)
Inverted.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/4205947612_c6e357d0e7_oaaa.jpg)
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I'll keep looking Diana. 723 will show it's face one day ;)
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Spot the Gunbuggy.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/SpottheGB.jpg)
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Spot the Gunbuggy.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/SpottheGB.jpg)
MMM right there in the guts smiling at ya!
I cant wait til you tell me the rego... :)
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112-517
Who owns this one??
9 RAR website
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112-722??
9 RAR website
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112-722??
Thanks Cliff. Great website :D
Looks like it :D
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112722a.jpg)
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This photo shows 112-516 leading 112-512.
Although the ARN plate on the leading Gunbuggy is somewhat hard to read, I am certain it is 112-516 as the other ARNs in the 5** sequence (112-510, 112-512, 112-514, 112-516, 112-517) do not match. We also know that it is not 512 as that one is in the photo ;D.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112516a.jpg)
112-512.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112512a.jpg)
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112-517 added to it's ARN post :D
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112517a.jpg)
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(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/gfcabdda.jpg)
This photo shows a Gunbuggy with the distinctive yellow triangular signs on it's mudflaps. The same signs can be seen on the Gunbuggy in the following photo as well.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/gfc.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/104Sigs_41-2.jpg)
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Two photos showing the 106 separated from Gunbuggy 112-517.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112517b.jpg) (http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112517c.jpg)
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Yeah, score of a picture hoard but where's the in-serivce pics of 112-335?? :'(
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This photo shows 112-512 to the left. We know it's 512 as it has the 'SA4' plate mounted to the radiator mesh, same TAC plate and TAC plate holder position. Note the Gunbuggy to the right.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/gfca.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112-512a.jpg)
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another one found....
that starts to reduce my chances again... :(
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Two photos showing the 106 separated from Gunbuggy 112-517.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112517b.jpg) (http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112517c.jpg)
No wonder there isnt any aero screens about especially if they fire over them like that... :o ::)
:D
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...112-728
....found a cleaner/cleaner version of the AWM pic in your collection:
(http://www.awm.gov.au/collection/images/screen/P04546.009.jpg)
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I went to the Lue Auction when Warwick L was relocating (as did many people). Was it about '99? I have forgotten. Scott is in the photo as well and looks to be somewhere around year 7, which would be about then.
There were a few buggies sold off. I snapped this when walking around after the auction as people were loading their purchases.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-YwS5KfrSx7c/UXddxNOLwoI/AAAAAAAADG8/33xWF2oxrt8/s720/wl-lue-auction-gb.jpg)
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I have also dug out and re-scanned photos at the RAINF museum gunbuggy -- 110-395.
They would've been taken about 2000 as well I guess.
I think I'll send them to Richard to replace the pics on the website.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-wD3Etc7YH28/UXdb0MA9gCI/AAAAAAAADCU/2cOTFQB3ZOU/s800/110395-ax1200.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-klppjWfkz9k/UXdcITv-I0I/AAAAAAAADDM/1FhXMbE3aPo/s640/110395-dx1200.jpg)
...additionally:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-OsRZooRpAGA/Ucg-EvGVfdI/AAAAAAAADg0/oX7XQPdS5PE/w728-h508-no/110395-fire.jpg)
...from an article about Gunbuggys, publ in Army magazine 8/2002, written by Michael Cecil: http://www.remlr.com/documents/Articles/Army%20Aug%202002.pdf
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I went to the Lue Auction when Warwick L was relocating (as did many people). Was it about '99? I have forgotten. Scott is in the photo as well and looks to be somewhere around year 7, which would be about then.
There were a few buggies sold off. I snapped this when walking around after the auction as people were loading their purchases.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-YwS5KfrSx7c/UXddxNOLwoI/AAAAAAAADG8/33xWF2oxrt8/s720/wl-lue-auction-gb.jpg)
Fantastic Photo Carzee :D.
That Gunbuggy is 110-849.
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I went to the Lue Auction when Warwick L was relocating (as did many people). Was it about '99?
2000
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Fantastic Photo Carzee :D. That Gunbuggy is 110-849.
ok, I'll bite. How do you know the ARN just from that pic?
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Fantastic Photo Carzee :D. That Gunbuggy is 110-849.
ok, I'll bite. How do you know the ARN just from that pic?
Go to page #1 of this thread and scroll down the page until you get to ARN 110-849. I took the liberty of adding your new photo to the post ;D
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Oh very cool. :)
..and here's those scanned 110-395 RAINF Museum photos as a link for Richard to download and edit/adjust etc.
I could've emailed them, but its almost as easy now to make a page:
http://www.camerajuice.com/110395/ (http://www.camerajuice.com/110395/)
eg
(http://camerajuice.com/110395/110395-jx1200.jpg)
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I went to the Lue Auction when Warwick L was relocating (as did many people). Was it about '99?
2000
(http://c1005.r5.cf3.rackcdn.com/2011/01/John-Laurie1.jpg)
(mumbles "...young --- whippersnappers!"
... puffs pipe)
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Oh very cool. :)
.
http://www.camerajuice.com/110395/ (http://www.camerajuice.com/110395/)
eg
(http://camerajuice.com/110395/110395-jx1200.jpg)
OK, I'll bite. I gather that switch in the lower centre replaces the headlight parklight switch, but who pinched the ignition switch?
Regards
Glen
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G'day Glen
Here is a close-up of the instrument panel. You can just make out the 'IGN' toggle switch to the right and a 'start' label to the bottom of the panel. There must be a switch or similar under the dash.
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...112-728
....found a cleaner/cleaner version of the AWM pic in your collection:
(http://www.awm.gov.au/collection/images/screen/P04546.009.jpg)
That image is much clearer :). Thanks.
I did notice that that the Buggy has an unbuckled seat/lap belt attached to the rear of the tub.
So why did the army fit these belts to the Gunbuggy?
It appear that the belt sat in a horizontal position across the rear opening. There would not be enough length for the belt to be looped up over an object such as the 106mm RCL. This would therefore indicate that the belt was used to restrain either personal or gear from exiting the tub unceremoniously out the back open tailgate. As show in the photo below (although unbuckled), could it have been used to hold the gunner in place when firing the 106?
Does anyone have knowledge of the belt restraint?
I have identified 9 Gunbuggies (including 112-728) that exhibit the same holes in their rear tubs. There may be others.
They are -
112-245
112-512
112-516
112-723
112-725
112-728
112-730
112-733
113-253
This would indicate that the belts were an integral part of Gunbuggy modifications. It would be interesting to find out how effective they were at their chosen task.
This is the only other 'in service' photo I can find with the belt in situ. Unbuckled and hanging.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/v106rcl_zps842e4e78.jpg)
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This belt.
Never noted that before.
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This belt.
Never noted that before.
Thats the one Carzee ;)
You can see the same hole positions for the belts on these Gunbuggies.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112-725ba_zps73a4c73d.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112-512ca_zps173d9f11.jpg)
113-253
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/landrover_swb_recoillessrifle_bandiana_13_zps8c8ce8f8.jpg)
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Theres a horizontal seatbelt across the passenger door on Dinty?
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Theres a horizontal seatbelt across the passenger door on Dinty?
Dennis will be able to confirm it's military originality. Could be a modern day OH&S measure ;D
There are numerous photos of Gunbuggies with lap style seat belts. I suspect they may be late in service modifications. Unfortunately, I cannot find an 'in service' photo of the belt across the door.
The second photo shows a belt attached to the bulkhead that would span across the door opening. Again, unable to confirm if a military mod or not. Not sure who owns this Gunbuggy. Could it belong to Dennis?
Update - that is Dennis's Gunbuggy 'Dinty' :D
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Theres a horizontal seatbelt across the passenger door on Dinty?
Not sure who owns this Gunbuggy. Could it belong to Dennis?
/csi mode engaged/
all switches the same - check
2 black rings around instruments with brass centre ring - check
extinguisher near vent different OD to cab - check
rat pack box same OD as cab - check
ammo tin at feet another shade altogether - check
rope coil on floor next to tunnel - check
rust marks similar on knobs/vents - check
.. theres a high probability that this is it..
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There is also another hole just forward of the rear seats on either side which would have been to secure the other end of the seatbelt. These would have been fitted for the security of the two rear seat crew members when in transit rather than when firing the weapon.
(http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/glenpats/001-4_zps867530eb.jpg) (http://s262.photobucket.com/user/glenpats/media/001-4_zps867530eb.jpg.html)
By the look of the ragged holes in either side of Onslow I would hazard a guess that they were ripped (literally) out rather than daintily undone, pre disposal of the vehicle.
Onslow has a couple more holes that show the same type of rapid exit process of bolts securing similar ancillaries.
Regards
Glen
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Here are a few images of the ? Seat belt and seat belt holes in the tub of 112-655, the safety belt LHS
(http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu319/DJM110/17873fc43d0acef642d1bb07eba3f3c3_zps5d77e955.jpg)
and how it attaches at the rear, the tube for the hood stick is utilised
(http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu319/DJM110/c7cbe9e14736026df4a53345821eb7a2_zps234394a0.jpg)
There is no provision for this on the RHS of the vehicle as the tub edge was modified for the securing of the drivers personal weapon.
The holes in the rear tub on 112-655 have been put in using tools LOL
(http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu319/DJM110/eca989d1ea6e7707d44250a5c0f63725_zps0a90a1cd.jpg)
A neat 7/16" drilled hole to accommodate a 7/16"UNF bolt, the same hole as seen from the inside
(http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu319/DJM110/260e53165aa92f50a3b82dc67819f158_zpsfc3f3ac0.jpg)
And the rear of the tub, both R&L sides are identical
(http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu319/DJM110/4c70791e4e9148a4d11b874fbb9fe415_zps46b61a77.jpg)
cheers Dennis
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My 112-723/726 has what looks like in service mountings for front seat belts in the side of the seat box.
Is there something you're not telling us Diana :D
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This photo, copied from another thread, shows a Gunbuggy receiving some mechanical attention. This Buggy would be 111-578 as it exhibits a number of similarities.
1. Same TAC plates and position on front guard panel.
2. ARN plate located under headlights.
3. No bonnet latches.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/111-578k_zps033ea4b0.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/111-578ka_zps146a256b.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/111-578ja_zpsc9ab4792.jpg)
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Hi Tommy
No I'm just going by the REMLR records.
The blue ARN book suggests that the chassis and engine originally fitted with the ARN 112-726 plates was later fitted with the ARN 112-723. It seems that a number of the buggies in the 112-7?? region played musical chassis at one point. http://remlr.com/ARN/ARNs_gunbuggys.php (http://remlr.com/ARN/ARNs_gunbuggys.php)
My ASSUMPTION is that this would have happened during a full base workshop rebuild when several buggies were on the line at the same time and that possibly happened when the vehicles returned from SVN.
So if my buggy which left service with ARN 112-723, was actually in SVN it likely had ARN 112-726 plates at the time. I must reinforce that this is an assumption based only on the change of ARN not any other documents.
Diana
Interesting :o.
If what you say is correct then this may be your buggy whilst in SVN :). I'm almost convinced that it is 112-726.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/726_zps7878298a.jpg)
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(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/111-578ja_zpsc9ab4792.jpg)
The front seat passenger has an interesting weapon. Is that the 'grease gun'?
-
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/111-578ja_zpsc9ab4792.jpg)
The front seat passenger has an interesting weapon. Is that the 'grease gun'?
No :(. Aussie designed and manufactured F1 :)
http://world.guns.ru/smg/austr/f1-e.html
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Isn't that an owen gun, the original drivers personal weapon that clipped onto the triangular bracket next to the seatbox and the spring clip where the door catch usually is. Oops wrong again! :'(
Would that bracket and clip have been designed to take the L1A1 SLR? The SLR would have been the primary army rifle at that stage. Glen would most probably know.
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Would that bracket and clip have been designed to take the L1A1 SLR? The SLR would have been the primary army rifle at that stage. Glen would most probably know.
No its too short for a long arm or assault rifle.
I see what you mean.
I found this photo with weapon in situ. It however, does not sit in the clip correctly. Am attempting to identify said weapon at the moment. The two screws/fixings where butt joins receiver is stumping me. Maybe a early version of the F1 or Owen. You can just see the wooden trigger grip.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/110-807f.jpg)
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However the brackets were designed for the Owen not the F1.
Have never seen an image with the Owen mounted, and I wonder if the stock was folded when stowed.
(http://historywarsweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/image/OwenSubmachineGunPieces.JPG)
I'm pretty sure the metal frame stock on the Owen did not fold :(.
The other issue I see with the Owen is that it had quite a long top mounted magazine. I cannot see how this weapon could be stowed in the bracket and clip without removing the magazine. The weapon sits in the bracket on it's back. Cannot be good if you require your weapon at short notice :o
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In 1966 when Australia upped the ante and committed extra troops to SVN the weapons issued to drivers were the L1a1 SLR rifle or in the case of a lot of drivers the Owen Machine Carbine. The particular weapon I was issued with was an OMC manufactured in 1941.
Towards the end of 66 or possibly early in 1967 the OMCs were recalled and we were issued the brand new Aussie built F1.
It was still a 9mm rimless weapon with about the same cyclic rate of fire and an improvement over its predecessor in that it didn't tend to creep high right as did the Owen, but as we were to find out in later dates, US ammunition was not quite the same as we were used to in Australia, and this caused quite a number of problems, and not only with the F1s.
One very noticeable difference in the ammunitions were the softer projectile nose of the American issue product that caused consistent scarring and subsequent jamming of the 7.62 L1A2 AR, and this hastened its subsequent replacement by the GPMG M60.
The F1 was not really known for its penetrating power especially in SVN, I believe mainly because of the ammo differences.
The stand on the drivers side seat base of the gunbuggy was designed originally for the OMC. but the unfortunate thing about this arrangement was that the weapon could not be stowed with a magazine fitted. Handy way to carry a weapon in a war zone!
The F1 was basically the same as far as the stock dimensions were concerned so it also fitted well in the supplied stand and clip, but once again, with a top mounted magazine, still stored magazineless.
The OMC had a straight Mag whereas the F1 had a curved Mag. Inside they both operated on the same principals (recoil operated) and were very similar in a lot of respects.
I used to carry my F1 to my left in between the two seats and I kept the more important part of our CES (and very often used too I may add) in the weapon stand to the right of the driver when I drove them. (Looking bored shirtless at the time I might add.)
(http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/glenpats/2Meingunbuggy_zpsf8599716.jpg) (http://s262.photobucket.com/user/glenpats/media/2Meingunbuggy_zpsf8599716.jpg.html)
SLRs were usually carried by "back seat" passengers and in the tub towards the rear SLR mounts were fitted.
The crew commander (left front seat) often had a SLR as well and that was carried across the floor just in front of the seat box with the butt to the left and the barrel fitting into a small tube under the drivers legs.
Two magazines were usually taped together, one empty and one fully loaded, as it was very easy to change from a "safe" area where loaded weapons were prohibited to a "not safe" area where a loaded weapon was a necessity. The fact that the magazine was always fitted kept the vital organs of the weapon relatively sand and mud free.
(http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/glenpats/WallyF1_zps08cbaac1.jpg) (http://s262.photobucket.com/user/glenpats/media/WallyF1_zps08cbaac1.jpg.html)
Regards
Glen
PS I can't quite work out who the NCO is operating the radio in the shot with in the quarry - probably looking for an absent unloaded tipper prior to a convoy, by the looks of the clean boots.
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Thanks for that explanation Glen. Many questions have now been answered :).
The weapon carried on the Gunbuggy in the photo below can now be confirmed as an Owen MC. Where would the SLR be mounted in the tub?
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/110-807f.jpg)
I notice that the inverted magazine (in your second photo) is loaded. I can therefore assume that the F1 is in 'safe' mode as you have explained.
Your knowledge is greatly appreciated Glen :D
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and I have resisted the urge for too long...
:o
MMM GUNBUGGY MMM ;D ::)
ahhh thats better!! :)
I notice the crank handle there in ready access position.... battery trouble? (see what I did there...artillery type vehicle...battery trouble ?? :) ahh, dont bother..)
On a serious note, the wire cutters on front left side, just standard angle and a star dropper or what was it made with?
how common were they (see photos with, and without..) and were they a unit mod or was there some sort of standard set for them?
how often were they needed?
some other questions up for grabs -
-screens seem fitted almost all the time in the in country shots once the "big pipe" was removed, is that correct?..
-how common was the 'no bonnet hooks" on gunbuggies?
-I know why the headlights have 'eyelid" covers...why yellow? and who fitted these?
Cheers...
and lets keep this thread up chaps!!!
it is a great record.. (ps post 48... spot Prince Harry as a driver!)
ta.
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The Series Two gun buggy was a converted S2 C/R, theat vehicle was basically a civilian vehicle with a few military add on's, the bonnet was released by putting fingers through the hole in the grille and pushing the bonnet release lever sideways, thus releasing the spring catch, I suppose these would occasionally fail, image of 111-5?? In a previous post has the std bonnet release.
The S2 in the image with a bucket/shovel in the background has bonnet clamps that look almost the same as early International engine cover clamps, I'm not sure where the SLR would have have been mounted in the rear?? cheers Dennis.
Ps I had a look at page 31 in the training pam Vol 3, pam 2 106 RCL, it only shows provision for a machine carbine (OMC) to be stowed on the RHS floor. 112-655 has the holes in said places but not clips/mounts, most likely removed by the previous owner Sgt. R. Thompson, he used 112-655 to map Aboriginal sacred sites within the Holdsworthy Range area, so maybe with gunbuggies that were used in a theatre of war might have had a clip or two added to secure a SLR, but the only image I have seen had the SLR loose on kit near the gunner,,??.
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The gunbuggy was designed from scratch as a vehicle to carry what was at the time a brand new weapon, so a list of requirements would have been drawn up about 10 miles long to cover what was perceived by peace time engineers to be the basic requirements. Hence the prototype gunbuggy was released and thought to be ideal for the job.
Over a period of time set aside for "user evaluation" (standard process with all new products) a few shortfalls were discovered, such minor things as the muzzle blast obliterating the front of the vehicle and the recoil blast having the same effect on the rear section, hence mudguards and body tub were shortened. A lot of other minor problems were found (but remember that these problems were discovered in a "peaceful" home grown exercise environment) and these were duly rectified, and lo and behold eventually the gunbuggy as we know it emerged, on what was then the current GS vehicle, the S2.
Time marches on and the little gunbuggy performs above and beyond its expectations, an awesome new anti tank weapon suddenly has the added advantage of being highly mobile. The S2a is adopted by the Australian Army as the standard GS and it has quite a number of improvements and modifications over the almost civilian S2 as Dennis M mentioned, and as a result some of these differences show up on buggies that were produced on different platforms. The Army "gunbuggy mods" were standardized but the Land Rover bits underneath it changed with the model change, hence the 2" lift on a S2a, bonnet catches, brushguards etc etc.
So whilst still under a "peacetime exercise type" development, little compartments and holders were attached all over the place in various nooks and crannies to hold all the perceived pieces of equipment deemed necessary and all looked neat and tidy and seemed to be practical by all inspecting Officers and the likes of such.
Unfortunately when the little buggies eventually did go to war in South Vietnam, suddenly what seemed important in peacetime, like where to store a personal weapon, became irrelevant, in that most people I knew had this thing about keeping their weapons handy, rather than in the prescribed place.
This fact, plus the fact that the most prevalent spare parts held by any LAD or workshop stores would have been for the current S2a vehicles, so when a mudguard or bonnet or other body panel was damaged it was replaced by what was readily available, and that often would have been a standardized S2a part. Originally the guards for a gunbuggy were from a S2 and undrilled for recovery CES brackets. The lack of use of the 106 as a vehicular mounted weapon quite possibly made the requirement for the tools to be out of the muzzle blast area, nowhere near as important as it was originally thought.
Onslow still has one rifle clamp still fitted in the rear of the tub although it seems to be bent about 90 Deg or so. This is the only one still fitted to the vehicle as most others were removed before disposal.
(http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/glenpats/001-4_zpsa5b2f103.jpg) (http://s262.photobucket.com/user/glenpats/media/001-4_zpsa5b2f103.jpg.html)
As I inferred above, I have never seen it used as most people I knew held on to their personal weapons, and I am having trouble recalling whether the machine gunner even took his personal weapon with him as he had drawn the M60 and ammo from the Q store for the outing on a day by day basis.
Wire cutters were fitted by the local 1 Coy LAD and made out of stock standard star pickets. There is one reference to wire across the road in the Commanders Diaries, and written off as a kids prank, but it happened at least 6 times that I know of. (A lot of funny things happened that didn't actually get to the notice of the boss, but I am sure that any employee in any job is well aware of this. At our reunions we have sometimes show personal collections as slide shows every now and then and our OC is simply amazed, and the most common statement heard is; "But I never knew that happened!!")
Lights were painted with the yellow eyelids as a courtesy to the locals and applied at a unit level. South Vietnam was basically a French outpost, the second language was French, driving rules etc were French, and as a result headlights on a local car had a yellow lens, a bit like our fog lights. Our light were white (well Lucas white anyway) and threw the wrong way so the compromise reached was the yellow eyelids. This ceased in later days as left hand drive headlights were fitted to O/S bound vehicles.
Most buggies that were fitted with M60s were road going vehicles and contrary to popular belief it is no real great fun driving around with no wind screen fitted, especially in the bug infested tropics, winding in and out of convoys and local traffic.
Regards
Glen
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Update.
This thread can now confirm 43 Gunbuggy ARNs from images posted. Out of a total of 72 known ARNs, that is not a bad strike rate :). I have slowly been posting up new images as they come to light. Some new ones now in the thread.
The following list represent the 72 Gunbuggy ARNs. The red denotes that we do not yet have an image showing ARN. The blue denotes that we have image/images posted on this thread.
ARN 110-
110-395, 110-412, 110-423, 110-447, 110-501, 110-506, 110-518, 110-537, 110-542, 110-715, 110-720, 110-724, 110-776, 110-780, 110-785, 110-786, 110-797, 110-807, 110-849
ARN 111-
111-132, 111-552, 111-578, 111-613, 111-650, 111-660, 111-661
ARN 112-
112-243, 112-245, 112-246, 112-253, 112-254, 112-255, 112-256, 112-257, 112-258, 112-259, 112-325, 112-333, 112-334, 112-335, 112-336, 112-337, 112-371, 112-372, 112-373, 112-374,
112-375, 112-376, 112-377, 112-378, 112-379, 112-510, 112-512, 112-514, 112-516, 112-517, 112-578, 112-655, 112-722, 112-723, 112-724, 112-725, 112-726, 112-727, 112-728, 112-729
112-730, 112-731, 112-732, 112-733, 112-734
ARN 113-
113-253
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Good idea
Could I suggest you edit the post to underline the ones that we have proven to still exist, whether restored or not.
How many of the 72 are left? They must be getting rare.
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Hello Carzee and Diana
Your suggestions make good sense and have crossed my mind from time to time. As time permits, I hope to make the changes to improve the thread. I am a little in the dark when it comes to private and museum ownership. I can only go by what is on the forum, REMLR website or internet. I would need the help of fellow members.
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Hi Tommy
No I'm just going by the REMLR records.
The blue ARN book suggests that the chassis and engine originally fitted with the ARN 112-726 plates was later fitted with the ARN 112-723. It seems that a number of the buggies in the 112-7?? region played musical chassis at one point. http://remlr.com/ARN/ARNs_gunbuggys.php (http://remlr.com/ARN/ARNs_gunbuggys.php)
My ASSUMPTION is that this would have happened during a full base workshop rebuild when several buggies were on the line at the same time and that possibly happened when the vehicles returned from SVN.
So if my buggy which left service with ARN 112-723, was actually in SVN it likely had ARN 112-726 plates at the time. I must reinforce that this is an assumption based only on the change of ARN not any other documents.
Diana
Diana
To add to this 'mix 'n match' confusion, REMLR ARN records tell us that 112-727 was 'Scrapped in service for 112-726?'. Thats weird.....it was disposed of at a late date of 1993 :o.
112-727 ....88....1963....Series 2A....6005B....Truck, Utility, 1/4 Ton, GS, Fitted For Rifle 106mm....25144536C....24303720A....SA....'Fitted For Rifle 106mm'. Duplicate Chassis. Scrapped in service for 112-726?....10.05.93
Strange thing about this statement is that 112-727 survives in relatively complete 'driveable' condition. I have this data plate photo as proof. 727 retains it's original AUSCAM camouflage scheme which tells us that it was used right up until it's disposal. So, who is this Gunbuggy? An imposter maybe? I think a check of it's stamped chassis number may hold some answers :)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112-727_zps4794cc22.jpg)
If you can unravel this mix of Gunbuggies, please let me know ???
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OK, I've added 110-715 to post #4. Another one confirmed :).
Thanks must go to bronzie66610 for supplying the photo :)
This photo shows a close-up of the ARN plate. Apart from other evidence to suggest that it is 715, the plate looks to be relatively undamaged and displaying a 'slim' number 1 rather than a 'fat' number 8 (an 8 would suggest that it was 110-785 Gunbuggy).
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/110-715a_zps00b20d5c.jpg)
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112-727 I will hopefully own one day, I have been promised that I am on top of the list when it becomes available. The chassis number I don't have a good enough picture the engine is as per the details provided.
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112-727 I will hopefully own one day, I have been promised that I am on top of the list when it becomes available. The chassis number I don't have a good enough picture the engine is as per the details provided.
You lucky son of a biscuit :D. Any chance of chasing down the number on the chassis.
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I will try over the next week or so.
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Proper AWM 111-613 pix from the AWM website (http://www.awm.gov.au/collection/REL/19356/):
(http://www.awm.gov.au/collection/images/screen/REL%2F19356.jpg)
(http://www.awm.gov.au/collection/images/screen/REL%2F19356_2.jpg)
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112-333(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112-333.jpg)
a bigger version: http://camerajuice.com/112333/112333-gbbwbig.jpg (http://camerajuice.com/112333/112333-gbbwbig.jpg)
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Wow, much bigger Carzee :D
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The crew commander (left front seat) often had a SLR as well and that was carried across the floor just in front of the seat box with the butt to the left and the barrel fitting into a small tube under the drivers legs.
This photo shows the SLR stowed as described by Glen :). M16 in seatbox butt holder.
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There looks to be another rifle
butt behind his boot heels... a second rifle along the front of the seatbox?
Ok, I thought the bracket referred to was the one for the rifle beside him.
???
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lol
:o
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Just to be correct, it is indeed a self loading rifle (SLR) but not what what troops were normally issued with L1A1 affectionately known as a SLR, the one in the image is a ?? Colt derivitave, cheers Dennis. :)
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Proof that home brand coffee is a waste of money. It was a long day. The kids were distracting me. Took one too many panadols for the toothache. I was asleep at the keyboard. My wife does all these for me as I'm too busy with my NDIS application.
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A normal day like the rest of us then..... ;D
Pete
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...and ..
here's another safety belt pic from 9RAR collection
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-JRCf731VIyM/UYMxi8HGufI/AAAAAAAADMc/QRnebgd8WMs/s512/unk-9rar-69-s.jpg)
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The crew commander (left front seat) often had a SLR as well and that was carried across the floor just in front of the seat box with the butt to the left and the barrel fitting into a small tube under the drivers legs.
This photo shows the SLR stowed as described by Glen :). M16 in seatbox butt holder.
The L1A1 SLR is lying across the front of the seatbox. You can make out the metal butt plate. The rifle sitting in the butt holder located on the side of the seatbox is a standard M16 :D
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looks like jeff dennis on top
I went to the Lue Auction when Warwick L was relocating (as did many people). Was it about '99? I have forgotten. Scott is in the photo as well and looks to be somewhere around year 7, which would be about then.
There were a few buggies sold off. I snapped this when walking around after the auction as people were loading their purchases.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-YwS5KfrSx7c/UXddxNOLwoI/AAAAAAAADG8/33xWF2oxrt8/s720/wl-lue-auction-gb.jpg)
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I think it is actually a 'standard' M16A1, rather than an M16.
Mike C
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looks like jeff dennis on top
hi Stephen,
I am sure it is Geoff, the white gloves gave him away !
regards, Richard
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New photo of 112-517 in SVN.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112-517b_zps901a4e79.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112-517a_zps6666067f.jpg)
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.... trailing an M125A1 81mm mortar carrier, no less.
Mike C
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.... trailing an M125A1 81mm mortar carrier, no less.
Mike C
great shot! nice and clear too!
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Date of the photo = 9RAR "63" = in country late Nov '68 until 5th Dec '69.
At first glance I thought he was taking aim at the carrier... but he's drinking I think.
The rear safety belts are there.
One of the sportscar windscreens is on, so this is a convoy I presume.
I hope those road shoulders were cleared ..
Does anyone have a idea where this? I see posts for wire? A river. Have they stopped at a bridge checkpoint on that river?
Are those the Long Hai Hills? Is this pic even snapped in SVN?
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-tjoq3Ex9o1I/UY7ZfntbCGI/AAAAAAAADRg/sCPzY2EUHu8/s720/17const-province-mudmap-jul70.jpg)
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Here's a wild guess. Looking at the sparse vegetation the GB photo could have been taken the same day / same area as the one on the cover of the $100 book, Fighting To The Finish (Australian Army And The Vietnam War 68-75):
https://www.awm.gov.au/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/F2F%20rough%20v02_2_0.jpg (https://www.awm.gov.au/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/F2F%20rough%20v02_2_0.jpg)
The AWM photo collection has only 2 photos of the M125A1. Two.
This one, "circa 1968", also has a dirt road and convoy setting just like the one with the GB, but the sky is a fairly different:
http://www.awm.gov.au/collection/P05923.031 (http://www.awm.gov.au/collection/P05923.031)
It would be good to pin down the place and the date of that GB photo.
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Carzee,
That there are only 2 M125A1 images in the AWM collection is incorrect. There are another 5 at least - these were included in M&D from the collection - and I know there are others that I rejected for the book due to the space constraints. True, there are only two that are actually identified as 'M125A1' in a collection search, but that is a result of image captions being done by people without broad enough expertise in materiel identification. Even the one on the cover of 'Fighting to the Finish' (134417) does not come up on a simple search - I remember the author asking me to review the image caption prior to publication, and my identifying it as an M125A1 rather than an APC.
Mike C
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Different cameras, settings on the cameras, but even though I was never there, I would safely have a guess and say the profile of the mountains/hills are the 'Long Hai' hills, I also seem to recall them being called 'The Warburtons' for some reason, cheers Dennis.
Ps there are some excellent publications out there about our troops involvement in the conflict in Sth Vietnam.
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60's pop music song was called "Wolverton Mountain"
I believe that this name "Wolverton" morphed into Warburtons over a short period of time, mainly because of the hills being considered "red" - (Don't Go).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLoQS0GnhWk
Regards
Glen
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Its a pity we can't nail the place or time but we can say 112-517 has a radio fitted the same as this one ...which is also 9RAR.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-JRCf731VIyM/UYMxi8HGufI/AAAAAAAADMc/QRnebgd8WMs/s512/unk-9rar-69-s.jpg)
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I don't know whether I would class that radio as actually being "Fitted". That bit of rope/cordage would be stock issue, if not cut off a tarp of some description, and the PRC radio (complete with its own battery) would have been drawn from the "Q" as and when required.
The thing I find of interest in that photograph, is what are they carrying on the dash between the screen where the barrel mount clamp should be? Smoke? But the writing looks too large and obvious and the top looks wrong.
Regards
Glen
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If not smoke white phos?
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The thing I find of interest in that photograph, is what are they carrying on the dash between the screen where the barrel mount clamp should be? Smoke? But the writing looks too large and obvious and the top looks wrong.
Regards
Glen
Have a look at this photo below Glen. This smoke grenade shows a yellow top cap and large text. Although the original photo is black and white, it does appear to have a light coloured top cap. Looks the same size as well.
If it is indeed a smoke grenade, what coloured smoke would a vehicle be required to carry? Red, Green, Yellow or Violet? What purpose would each colour be used for? Extraction/landing zone, enemy, wounded etc?
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I should let a more knowledgeable person on this subject than myself answer that question. I remember carrying a few different colours at different times and I was never aware of any specific colour coded set up.
Before each convoy, the packet commanders were briefed in the pre job "O" groups, on various aspects of the day, most were set out in convoy orders such as radio frequencies, emergency frequencies, and code words that were changed each day for various obstacles en route, and I do recall the colour of smoke issued each day was always mentioned.
Knowing what smoke you had thrown was fairly important.
Regards
Glen
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I should let a more knowledgeable person on this subject than myself answer that question. I remember carrying a few different colours at different times and I was never aware of any specific colour coded set up.
Before each convoy, the packet commanders were briefed in the pre job "O" groups, on various aspects of the day, most were set out in convoy orders such as radio frequencies, emergency frequencies, and code words that were changed each day for various obstacles en route, and I do recall the colour of smoke issued each day was always mentioned.
Knowing what smoke you had thrown was fairly important.
Regards
Glen
Now that makes sense Glen. Different colours, different days with different uses. The enemy would then have trouble identifying the designated use for each colour. A smoke code :).
BTW, what is a 'packet commander'? It sounds like a slang term rather than a military one.
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Some people sent a convoy up the road consisting of about 50 trucks nose to tail, and these were pretty easy marks, as per this shot of a much earlier convoy in the vicinity (road to Binh Ba), shows;
(http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/glenpats/2Oldconvoy_zps9854436e.jpg)
A comforting sight!
The Australian way was to cut a convoy up into "packets" usually comprising 6 or so trucks (about a section). These "packets" came under the control of the packet commander, usually a Cpl or L/Cpl, (some times known as a sect commander. The different terminology comes about because whereas a Section Commander commanded a particular section within a Platoon, a packet may be made up of trucks from a number of different sections or even Units. Sounds insignificant, but there is a difference.)
Each vehicle in a packet would travel approx 100 yds between vehicles (So the numberplate was just readable) and each packet was separated even further apart. (See Commander's Diaries, convoy orders)
Each Packet was issued with at least one AR (Heavy barrelled automatic version of the SLR) or a GPMG M60, and had a radio set issued to the packet commander.
The idea of this spacing was that an ambush could realistically only knock out one or two trucks and the rest could take whatever avoiding procedure presented itself, whereas a closely packed convoy often suffered the fate of the photo as the attackers only had to knock out the first and last and the rest had nowhere to go.
Regards
Glen
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Convoys have to be done right or its a night mare. The record for the "World's Worst" was on the Basra Road I suppose.
Glen, in a typical run to Nui Dat with 3 packets...
..would there be just 1 gunbuggy with 106RCL and just 2 GPMG convoy escorts?
I ask because there seems to be a significant change in SOP for road travel over the 3 years 68-71.
Here are road codes and SOPs from july 71: https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-qD-3hIoMX80/UaSmOo2lDOI/AAAAAAAADZ8/XrXRRP08ehk/s640/17const-road-danger-codes-aug71.jpg
btw, I jazzed up your CCKW picture a bit for you: https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-DK8BT19IYTM/UZmn_knMweI/AAAAAAAADYk/XCauFpSUzAM/s787/2Oldconvoy_zps985.jpg
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Convoys have to be done right or its a night mare. The record for the "World's Worst" was on the Basra Road I suppose.
Or geographically closer, Groupement Mobile 100 in 1953/4 in the northern reaches of SVN.
Jack
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The bloody demise of the mobile regimental combat team GM 100 on the Central Plateau in the first months of 1954 is well covered in Bernard Fall's 'Street Without Joy', chapter 9: End of a Task Force. It also briefly recounts the loss of an ARVN ammunition convoy on 2 July 1964 on the same stretch of road, using the same tactics. Fall stated 'the ambush had taken place at the foot of the monument commemorating the end of GM100 - 10 years, 8 days and 3 hours earlier'. A graphic example of the saying 'We ignore the lessons of history at out peril'.
This excellent book is a 'must read' for anyone with an interest in the war in South Vietnam. My copy is the 1964 edition with the additional chapters and sections on US/allied involvement in SVN, which adds considerably to the book's applicability to the years that followed (ie 1964-1975).
Fall was killed when he stepped on a land mine in the Street Without Joy area of SVN on 21 February 1967.
Mike C
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Another photo of 110-807. Added to post #7.
Although the ARN plate is difficult to read, the numbers 110-?0? can be seen on the original photo.
I studied existing photos of 110-807 and came to the conclusion that it was indeed 807 from the following:
1. It has bonnet latches. From photographic evidence, all earlier ARNs did not have these. Although there are two similar Gunbuggy ARNs (110-501 and 506), it could not be either as they would not have had the latches.
2. The same size and 'bent' brush bar mounted star steel picket cable deflector.
3. No TAC plate holders to front guard panels (photos show that 506 has TAC plate holders on both front guard panels).
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/110-807h_zpscd3c5ce4.jpg)
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Added these two photos of 111-578 to post #10. Both photos taken in 87 Transport Platoons yard, SVN.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/111-578n_zps1fcfacbf.jpg)
In this photo you can just see the two bolt holes that were used to secure the star picket cable deflector/cutter to the left hand corner post of the brush bar. Note also how the 'Teaspoon Tippers' in the background are loaded up to the max. Looks like beach sand.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/111-578l_zpsbc1e1cb5.jpg)
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On the old REMLR forum, the following photo of a Gunbuggy created some discussion in relation to it's ARN. After some valued opinions, it was decided that this Gunbuggies ARN was 110-501.
I now have a better quality photo that clearly shows the ARN as 110-506 :D. I have amended the ARN and posted this 'new' photo into post #4 of this thread.
Old photo.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/110-501a.jpg)
New photo.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/104Sigs-35_16a.jpg)
This vehicle was the subect of a number of posts having been spotted at the Corowa Swim-In, it is actually a regular attendee.
110-506 is an item in the collection or the Royal NSW Lancers Regimental Museum at the historic Lancer Barracks in Parramatta Sydney. The regiment traces its history from colonial times and was one of the NSW Forces fighting in the South African Boer War before the Federation of Australia and the formation of the Australian Army.
(http://www.lancers.org.au/images/badge.jpg)
In the absence of a 106mm recoilless rifle the museum volunteers wish to replicate the M60 pedestal and pintle fitted to 110-506 in SVN operations.
If anyone has any images of 110-506 clearly showing the construction of the pedestal, particularly base and attachment to the transom and floor, the museum would be grateful of a copy.
I will be happy to pass them on or you can contact them via their website. http://www.lancers.org.au/ (http://www.lancers.org.au/)
Diana
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[[ just added this to post #103 up thread ]]
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-OsRZooRpAGA/Ucg-EvGVfdI/AAAAAAAADg0/oX7XQPdS5PE/w728-h508-no/110395-fire.jpg)
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That is a great action shot! :)
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I have 'caught up' regards Richard O's (5/2009) MVCA photo album of 112-336 and 112-337 "as found".
The photos are very detailed: http://www.mvca.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?f=151&t=268
eg, I see 112-337 doesn't have the rear safety-belt mount holes we were discussing up thread.
(http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg250/pwr_ob1/2a%20GB/Picture251.jpg)
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... speaking of detailled photos, I also 'caught up' with photos of ARN ------ displayed in 2010 at the Tyabb Aerodrome Open Day: http://www.grubbyfingersshop.com/walkaround_galleries/land_rover_106mm_recoilless_gun_truck_walkaround_tyabb_2010/content/index.html
(http://www.grubbyfingersshop.com/walkaround_galleries/land_rover_106mm_recoilless_gun_truck_walkaround_tyabb_2010/content/bin/images/large/land_rover_106mm_recoilless_gun_truck_walkaround_tyabb_2010_21.jpg)
and a gunbuggy model:
(http://www.mheaust.com.au/Aust/gallery/LR/PDambo.jpg)
....and the Jeep 106RCL trial. Note the rounds are not carried with the gun: http://g503.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=108&t=164079
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That's one of my models.
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That's one of my models.
Congrats firey, its incredibly good!
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The Tyabb one looks like JB's
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It looks like 112-512 is going to be sent to Bandiana and go into storage because a gunbuggy is not a piece of sapper's kit. The same as the M113-FSV and maybe even HMAPC-Flint to the AWM.
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That is a pity. I wonder what happens when bandiana have duplicate items?
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Hi, Below is a list of Gunbuggy ARN's that Tommy has been working on, the ones in Bold (Black private/Green Museums) that we know exist today - are there anymore out there that people know. It would be nice to have a definitive answer on how many still exist
Regards
Scott
BOLD Black = known to be in private hands
BOLD Green = In Museums
UNDERLINED = Photo
ARN 110-
110-395, 110-412, 110-423, 110-447, 110-501, 110-506, 110-518, 110-537, 110-542, 110-715, 110-720 , 110-724, 110-776, 110-780, 110-785, 110-786, 110-797, 110-807, 110-849
ARN 111-
111-132, 111-552, 111-578, 111-613, 111-650, 111-660, 111-661
ARN 112-
112-243, 112-245, 112-246, 112-253, 112-254, 112-255, 112-256, 112-257, 112-258, 112-259, 112-325, 112-333, 112-334, 112-335, 112-336, 112-337, 112-371, 112-372, 112-373, 112-374,
112-375, 112-376, 112-377, 112-378, 112-379, 112-510, 112-512, 112-514, 112-516, 112-517, 112-578, 112-655, 112-722, 112-723, 112-724, 112-725, 112-726, 112-727, 112-728, 112-729
112-730, 112-731, 112-732, 112-733, 112-734
ARN 113-
113-253
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In the list above. What about we colour the units in museums.... Green.
110-395 RAINF Singleton
111-613 AWM
112-730 WA
Lancers.
Bandiana.
Etc
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112-730 is held by the Army Museum of WA.
Jack
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In the list above. What about we colour the units in museums.... Green.
110-395 RAINF Singleton
111-613 AWM
112-730 WA
Lancers. 110-506
Bandiana. 113-253
SME 112-512
Etc
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that jeep just doesnt cut it... would have been an ugly roll with a RCL there but also stopped it rolling further!
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Jack
Is 112-730 a 10th Light Horse Gunbuggy?
I remember when I was in Cadets in the early seventies we had a 10 LH officer attached to our unit who drove
a gunbuggy out to Bindoon for the cadets to have a look at. pity I didn't have a camera in those days.
Its amazing how small the pool of vehicles was in WA. B52 and my 2a's have consecutive chassis numbers and I have
photographed one of Tommy's LRPV in service in the eighties. But when you think of it, apart from SASR we have no regular
army units and all th Reserve units only hav a very small ARA cadre or did. Smaller these days I'm told. 10 LH have no M113's,
7 Fd Bty have no 105's only Mortars. I honestly don't know what else has been downsized but nothing would surprise me.
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BOLD Black = known to be in private hands
BOLD Green = In Museums
UNDERLINED = Photo
ARN 110-
110-395, 110-412, 110-423, 110-447, 110-501, 110-506, 110-518, 110-537, 110-542, 110-715, 110-720, 110-724, 110-776, 110-780, 110-785, 110-786, 110-797, 110-807, 110-849
ARN 111-
111-132, 111-552, 111-578, 111-613, 111-650, 111-660, 111-661
ARN 112-
112-243, 112-245, 112-246, 112-253, 112-254, 112-255, 112-256, 112-257, 112-258, 112-259, 112-325, 112-333, 112-334, 112-335, 112-336, 112-337, 112-371, 112-372, 112-373, 112-374,
112-375, 112-376, 112-377, 112-378, 112-379, 112-510, 112-512, 112-514, 112-516, 112-517, 112-578, 112-655, 112-722, 112-723, 112-724, 112-725, 112-726, 112-727, 112-728, 112-729
112-730, 112-731, 112-732, 112-733, 112-734
ARN 113-
113-253
Ok, so I've updated post 186, would appreciate someone checking it, also we have 2 vehicles in REMLR private hands that we don't have photos of!
regards
Scott
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Jack
Is 112-730 a 10th Light Horse Gunbuggy?
I remember when I was in Cadets in the early seventies we had a 10 LH officer attached to our unit who drove
a gunbuggy out to Bindoon for the cadets to have a look at. pity I didn't have a camera in those days.
Its amazing how small the pool of vehicles was in WA. B52 and my 2a's have consecutive chassis numbers and I have
photographed one of Tommy's LRPV in service in the eighties. But when you think of it, apart from SASR we have no regular
army units and all th Reserve units only hav a very small ARA cadre or did. Smaller these days I'm told. 10 LH have no M113's,
7 Fd Bty have no 105's only Mortars. I honestly don't know what else has been downsized but nothing would surprise me.
Wade,
The 106 Carrier at the Fremantle Museum saw service with 3 RAR and 5/7 RAR. Until it arrived here after its demob, it had never been in WA.
It is interesting to see the downsizing of part time units here in WA - the magic trick of turning gunners into mortarmen, is creating some angst among those affected !
Jack
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What about we colour the units in museums.... Green.
Hi Ross, yep museum vehicles in green,
any more out there???
-
::) thx Scott.
I can't check the numbers for a week - I have been advised to get vaccinated against gunbuggy disease ASAP.
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Was chatting to the AAMME (SME) curator today and put the question about 112-512. His response is that there is an assigned location for the buggy in the new (new) museum building* on the Holsworthy Base after the move from Steele Barracks Moorebank. So 112-512 is not going anywhere.
See what happens when you listen to gossip from other volunteers! ;)
Diana
* Those who know Steele Barracks will know that one of the current AAMME buildings is called the "New Museum".
-
::) thx Scott.
I can't check the numbers for a week - I have been advised to get vaccinated against gunbuggy disease ASAP.
Dont do it!!! You cannot vaccinate against engineering brilliance!
-
Whats so special about a 106mm RCL carrier? The septics fitted them to Jeeps!
-
Yeh but ours are much cooler looking ;D
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Yeh but ours are much cooler looking ;D
Especially in rain and snow! ;D
-
Whats so special about a 106mm RCL carrier? The septics fitted them to Jeeps!
And Iraqies fitted them to old landcrusiers - check out youtube... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtAqD9_oOEY
Only 72 made, 19 known to exist (check out post 186), 6 of them in museums, 1 in my shed!
Although there must be more than 19 out there, need more updates if anyone knows of more
cheers
Scott
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Love that film clip. Broke every rule in the book re Re-coilless weapons.
BUT at least he had his hearing protection on. Ha.
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Whats so special about a 106mm RCL carrier? The septics fitted them to Jeeps!
I've been keeping it a secret but I sort of like the Aussie Gun Buggy... shhh dont tell anyone I dont think they picked up on it yet
... I think I did mention it once.... ::) but I think I got away with it :o ;D
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Whats so special about a 106mm RCL carrier? The septics fitted them to Jeeps!
And Iraqies fitted them to old landcrusiers - check out youtube... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtAqD9_oOEY
Only 72 made, 19 known to exist (check out post 186), 6 of them in museums, 1 in my shed!
Although there must be more than 19 out there, need more updates if anyone knows of more
cheers
Scott
Scott,
maybe another avenue is to discount those we know have been destroyed... it will only be a few we can nominate but also helps complete the list...
PS
Tommy , I know it wasnt GB but did anything come of that scrub bar enq?
-
Yeah do tell Tommy?!
-
PS
Tommy , I know it wasnt GB but did anything come of that scrub bar enq?
Rang a couple of times but got message bank. Will try again tomorrow.
-
Only 72 made, 19 known to exist (check out post 186), 6 of them in museums, 1 in my shed!
Although there must be more than 19 out there, need more updates if anyone knows of more
Scott,
maybe another avenue is to discount those we know have been destroyed... it will only be a few we can nominate but also helps complete the list...
Yep good idea,
So anyone know which Gun Buggies are definately dead and buried? I'll highlight them in bold Red in post 186.
Thanks
Scott
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"only 72 made".... I'm in need of some clarification, please.
The REMLR site lists 74 (not including the 'RAAF' one) but including 113196, which was not a gun buggy conversion, but the ENTAC mount into a standard SWB Land Rover. That leaves 73.
The REMLR list also shows four that were listed but then struck out. (110542, 110501, 110447, 110423). One of these is pictured as a 'pre-gunbuggy' carrier (110447) and 110412 is also listed as a 'pre gunbuggy' conversion. These were the small number provided to 2/14 LH (QMI) for trials that were literally blown apart when the weapon was fired. Hence, the later conversion to true 'gunbuggy' specs, and I suspect the reason the others are shown in the register as 'struck out'.
So where does that leave us? 74 -1 ENTAC carrier = 73; 73 - 5 'pre conversion'/struck out = 68. So is the actual number of converted (ie bobbed tail, sloped front guards, etc etc) 106 RCL carriers actually 68? Or is it 69, as one of the early trials vehicles was used as the initial test rig for conversiion to a gunbuggy configuration.
Or am I missing something, and it is actually 72? If so, which of the 'struck outs' has been confirmed as converted to true 'gunbuggy' configuration?
Interested in your thoughts, please gents....
Mike C
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Hi, Below is a list of Gunbuggy ARN's that Tommy has been working on, the ones in Bold (Black private/Green Museums) that we know exist today - are there anymore out there that people know. It would be nice to have a definitive answer on how many still exist
Regards
Scott
BOLD Black = known to be in private hands
BOLD Green = In Museums
UNDERLINED = Photo
ARN 110-
110-395, 110-412, 110-423, 110-447, 110-501, 110-506, 110-518, 110-537, 110-542, 110-715, 110-720, 110-724, 110-776, 110-780, 110-785, 110-786, 110-797, 110-807, 110-849
ARN 111-
111-132, 111-552, 111-578, 111-613, 111-650, 111-660, 111-661
ARN 112-
112-243, 112-245, 112-246, 112-253, 112-254, 112-255, 112-256, 112-257, 112-258, 112-259, 112-325, 112-333, 112-334, 112-335, 112-336, 112-337, 112-371, 112-372, 112-373, 112-374,
112-375, 112-376, 112-377, 112-378, 112-379, 112-510, 112-512, 112-514, 112-516, 112-517, 112-578, 112-655, 112-722, 112-723, 112-724, 112-725, 112-726, 112-727, 112-728, 112-729
112-730, 112-731, 112-732, 112-733, 112-734
ARN 113-
113-253
Hi Mike, so if I take off the 5 you say where struck off, 110542, 110501, 110447 (Pre GB), 110423, 110412 (pre GB) and I end up with 67, I put a line through them in the above list - is this correct??
regards
Scott
-
Scott
In regards to the buggy listings above, Tommy believes that he has an image of a buggy in SVN which is likely 112-726. It is sitting well inside the flooded 2AOD RAEME workshop in the shadows so is not a clear image of the ARN. However I don't believe that we have a secondary source to confirm the ARN of the image or even if 112-726 was actually in SVN.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/4205947612_c6e357d0e7_oac.jpg)
110-720 is in the Meandarra Qld Museum.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/110-720a.jpg)
Also, can our colour code somehow include whether photos were in-service, in SVN and post service? Perhaps a suffix letter/s?
Even with 110-720, we seem to be missing at least one museum.
Meandarra Qld
AAIM Singleton NSW
1/15 RNSW Lancers Parramatta NSW
AAMME Moorebank NSW
AWM ACT
AAM Bandiana Vic
MVCSM Edinburgh Parks SA
? Museum Perth WA
Diana
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Scott
110-720 is in the Meandarra Qld Museum. Added this one as museum.
Also, can our colour code somehow include whether photos were in-service, in SVN and post service? Perhaps a suffix letter/s? I'll work out something, 3 different combinations.
Even with 110-720, we seem to be missing at least one museum.
Meandarra Qld - 110-720
AAIM Singleton NSW - 110-395
1/15 RNSW Lancers Parramatta NSW - 110-506
AAMME Moorebank NSW - 112-512
AWM ACT - 111-613
AAM Bandiana Vic - 113-253
MVCSM Edinburgh Parks SA - don't think there is one there, don't remember seeing one a couple of years ago when there.
? Museum Perth WA - 112-730
Diana
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Well, that's the question, Scott: which, if any, of the ones shown as 'struck out' in the register and on the REMLR website listing, were actually converted to the 'gun buggy' configuration.
In my initial analysis, I came up with 69, but that was years ago, and people, many of whom contribute to this forum, have done a lot more work on this subject since then. So that's why I posed the question: how many conversions with all the attributes we attribute to a 'gunbuggy', were actually completed?
Of course, I'm not including the Series 3 LWB that was converted to carry a 106RCL in these figures.
To answer another part of this thread, 112726 was indeed in SVN. It was held at 2AOD as depot stock during 1971.
Mike C
-
Hi Scott
In relation to the buggy supposedly in SA, my only evidence is a conversation with a SA enthusiast involved with the museum when we spoke about their manufacturing windscreens using ACCO quarter window glass. I have sent a message to confirm the item and chassis number if it is there. It turns out that while they made screens for it the vehicle itself wasn't part of the Museum collection, they will see if they can find a chassis number for our REMLR records.
Mike
That is good news about 112-726. According to REMLR transcriptions of the ARN books, my buggy that left service as 112-723 was originally plated as 112-726. So it may have been my buggy with the wet feet! ;D
Onto other buggy stuff, the windscreens in particular. Do people want the complete measurements or are the ones Glen posted sufficient?
Diana
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Hi Scott
In relation to the buggy supposedly in SA, my only evidence is a conversation with a SA enthusiast involved with the museum when we spoke about their manufacturing windscreens using ACCO quarter window glass. I have sent a message to confirm the item and chassis number if it is there. It turns out that while they made screens for it the vehicle itself wasn't part of the Museum collection, they will see if they can find a chassis number for our REMLR records.
Mike
That is good news about 112-726. According to REMLR transcriptions of the ARN books, my buggy that left service as 112-723 was originally plated as 112-726. So it may have been my buggy with the wet feet! ;D
Onto other buggy stuff, the windscreens in particular. Do people want the complete measurements or are the ones Glen posted sufficient?
Diana
Thanks Diana,
If we find out the ARN in SA that would be great, I know Hugh D over there and could ask him as well.
If you could give complete measurement that would be fantastic and we'll do a check measure against Glens.
Thanks for your help
Scott
-
Thanks Diana,
If we find out the ARN in SA that would be great, I know Hugh D over there and could ask him as well.
If you could give complete measurement that would be fantastic and we'll do a check measure against Glens.
Thanks for your help
Scott
Hi Scott
Contacting Hugh would get you exactly the same information as it happens. I didn't want to name him.
Will go to another tread for the screens.
Diana
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I may have seen a blue one that is getting ready for restoration.... :)
but I was sworn to secrecy so cant say where in SA that was....
Nor was I left alone with the vehicle at all (hard to believe that!) so I dont have numbers etc.
sorry I cannot be more help but I gave my word.
-
I may have seen a blue one that is getting ready for restoration.... :)
but I was sworn to secrecy so cant say where in SA that was....
Nor was I left alone with the vehicle at all (hard to believe that!) so I dont have numbers etc.
sorry I cannot be more help but I gave my word.
OK the plot thickens! will keep an ear to the ground, eventually we'll get to confirm the numbers.
Thanks for the help, understand the confidentiality.
Cheers
Scott
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I have just spent about 1 hour going back through old REMLR CD's looking for an image of 'Thomas the TANK CHASER', a Series 2A gunbuggy that was owned by Micheal L some years ago. Micheal bought the gunbuggy at auction (I think?) and converted it with doors and a S2 type windscreen to get it registered.
I do not know whether the details of this particular gunbuggy were ever recorded or not.??. Maybe Ross C (Carzee) may be able to expand on this??, I wonder what happened to this little vehicle?? cheers Dennis :)
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I have just spent about 1 hour going back through old REMLR CD's looking for an image of 'Thomas the TANK CHASER', a Series 2A gunbuggy that was owned by Micheal L some years ago. Micheal bought the gunbuggy at auction (I think?) and converted it with doors and a S2 type windscreen to get it registered.
I do not know whether the details of this particular gunbuggy were ever recorded or not.??. Maybe Ross C (Carzee) may be able to expand on this??, I wonder what happened to this little vehicle?? cheers Dennis :)
Maybe Master Chief will be more help, because I have the brushguard from Thomas the Tank Chaser which came through MC.
-
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-CkoLdNcJ6zE/UeT7Z5lX5MI/AAAAAAAADrk/qI64YMGVpOQ/w615-h881-no/gunbuggy-recruiting-card2.jpg)
Recruiting card.
Weetbix cards and footy cards were a big thing when I was young. 60's or 70's?
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I note in the image the rifle is firing towards the rear quarter. The aero screens are demounted from the vehicle firewall.
Does anyone know if this was SOP?
Any other standard practices when firing?
Diana
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No. 1 Standard Practice. Don't stand behind.
(I crack me up)
-
Ha, just noticed that.
Stupid PR person picked it out as a recruitment photo!
Classic!
-
BTW, that card is currently on feebay and I found it by looking for a book...
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Mi3qlMajrEo/UeUbBGjkAEI/AAAAAAAADsU/dolcOzFM7pI/w1035-h791-no/recruitcards-feebay.jpg)
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/330809026135?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
.
-
No. 1 Standard Practice. Don't stand behind.
(I crack me up)
Or look into the hole at the front when someone is in the gunner's seat! :o
-
I note in the image the rifle is firing towards the rear quarter. The aero screens are demounted from the vehicle firewall.
Does anyone know if this was SOP?
Any other standard practices when firing?
Diana
Diana,
The RAAC Training Pam on the 106 RCL contains this explanatory page/picture -
(http://i1046.photobucket.com/albums/b469/JackM47/106RCLdetailwitharrow_zpsc09df802.jpg)
So, the firing position shown in the Recruiting photo seems to well exceed the limits given and if the Pam is to be believed, would be likely to cause damage and/or injury.
Jack
-
Thanks Jack
Those recruiters have a lot to answer for! ;)
Diana
-
Regards
Scott
BOLD Black = known to be in private hands
BOLD Green = In Museums
UNDERLINED = Photo
ARN 110-
110-395, 110-412, 110-423, 110-447, 110-501, 110-506, 110-518, 110-537, 110-542, 110-715, 110-720, 110-724, 110-776, 110-780, 110-785, 110-786, 110-797, 110-807, 110-849
ARN 111-
111-132, 111-552, 111-578, 111-613, 111-650, 111-660, 111-661
ARN 112-
112-243, 112-245, 112-246, 112-253, 112-254, 112-255, 112-256, 112-257, 112-258, 112-259, 112-325, 112-333, 112-334, 112-335, 112-336, 112-337, 112-371, 112-372, 112-373, 112-374,
112-375, 112-376, 112-377, 112-378, 112-379, 112-510, 112-512, 112-514, 112-516, 112-517, 112-578, 112-655, 112-722, 112-723, 112-724, 112-725, 112-726, 112-727, 112-728, 112-729
112-730, 112-731, 112-732, 112-733, 112-734
ARN 113-
113-253
Hi Mike, so if I take off the 5 you say where struck off, 110542, 110501, 110447 (Pre GB), 110423, 110412 (pre GB) and I end up with 67, I put a line through them in the above list - is this correct??
regards
Scott
We haven't progressed any further on this topic of trying to get an accurate record of how many are still out there, any updates from anyone?
Regards
Scott
-
Hi Scott
Only that my buggy was discharged as 112-723 but the chassis was originally under 112-726 and therefore likely in SVN.
There is a photo most likely of 112-726 flooded in at 2AOD. According to Mike C, it is recorded as being attached to 2AOD.
Diana
-
Hi Scott
Only that my buggy was discharged as 112-723 but the chassis was originally under 112-726 and therefore likely in SVN.
There is a photo most likely of 112-726 flooded in at 2AOD. According to Mike C, it is recorded as being attached to 2AOD.
Diana
Hi Diana,
So the big question which one is it, or which one do you want it to be, I'd go 112-726, but then again is it both!
I've confused myself now...
Seriously you would have the right to both ARN's but it is still one vehicle - your call
At the moment I think we have it as 112-723
regards
Scott
-
Hi Scott
112-723 is the number with which it left service and 112-726 what it entered service. What we don't know is when the change happened, probably it happened on the rebuild line after return from SVN as happened to most if not all vehicles returning. I will likely display it with 1ATF formation signs, but not sure what tac it would have at 2AOD.
Irrespective of that, I think we should underline 112-726 because we have a photo of it at 2AOD thanks to Tommy's analysis.
Perhaps we could put an asterisk against both ARN and a comment below.
Means I have to get new ARN Plates made ::)
Diana
BTW: It makes me sad when I see Jack's post at the top of the page.
-
So the big question which one is it, or which one do you want it to be, I'd go 112-726, but then again is it both!
I would have thought that the chassis is the primary source of identification. If so, what is the chassis number of Dianas Gunbuggy? If it's 24303792A (112-723) then 112-726 no longer exists.
-
So the big question which one is it, or which one do you want it to be, I'd go 112-726, but then again is it both!
I would have thought that the chassis is the primary source of identification. If so, what is the chassis number of Dianas Gunbuggy? If it's 24303792A (112-723) then 112-726 no longer exists.
Hi Tommy,
Same chassis number had both ARN's
Hence which ARN or both??
Cheers
Scott
-
In 1963 chassis 24303792A (my chassis) was ARN 112-726
At the same time chassis 24303769A was ARN 112-723
In 1971 ARN 112-726 was held at 2AOD as depot stock.
Sometime, (going by usual practice on the rebuild line after 1971): - both ARN 112-726 AND ARN 112-727 apparently go on chassis 24303720A.*
- Chassis 24303769A disappears from the REMLR gunbuggy list.
- Chassis 24303792A is has ARN 112-723 attached to it.
On 05/09/73 ARN 112-726 is disposed of.
The question is, what was the chassis number of ARN 112-726 at 2AOD in 1971?
-
What chassis number does Dianas Gunbuggy have today?
-
What chassis number does Dianas Gunbuggy have today?
24303792A
-
Hi Scott
Only that my buggy was discharged as 112-723 but the chassis was originally under 112-726 and therefore likely in SVN.
There is a photo most likely of 112-726 flooded in at 2AOD. According to Mike C, it is recorded as being attached to 2AOD.
Diana
So the big question which one is it, or which one do you want it to be, I'd go 112-726, but then again is it both!
Dianas Gunbuggy is 112-723 as sold from the army. Would that determine it's ID. During the chassis changeover, there is nothing to say that the same body panels/tub etc were kept together and reattached onto the current chassis. These parts may have been 'thrown' into the corner with other ARN parts and reused on a ad hoc basis. It's a shame the body parts are not stamped with a ARN ID number.
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Hi Scott
Only that my buggy was discharged as 112-723 but the chassis was originally under 112-726 and therefore likely in SVN.
There is a photo most likely of 112-726 flooded in at 2AOD. According to Mike C, it is recorded as being attached to 2AOD.
Diana
So the big question which one is it, or which one do you want it to be, I'd go 112-726, but then again is it both!
Dianas Gunbuggy is 112-723 as sold from the army. Would that determine it's ID. During the chassis changeover, there is nothing to say that the same body panels/tub etc were kept together and reattached onto the current chassis. These parts may have been 'thrown' into the corner with other ARN parts and reused on a ad hoc basis. It's a shame the body parts are not stamped with a ARN ID number.
Tommy, I see it the other way, the Chassis entered the Army as 112-726 and exited the Army as 112-723, it way well have had the same body all the way even through the rebuild,
Diana, did it retain the original engine.
As we know the Army did not use chassis number as the form of identification (as is done in civilian registrations) the ARN was the form of identity and plates where quite often changed over, often with a record note of different vehicle with the ARN.
So I think it is both, but there is another that can claim ownership to 112-723 as well.
Depending on what era you want to restore it too whould determine what ARN you use
I would go Vietnam 112-726, it's original ARN
What do you think Diana?
Regards
Scott
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This is an interesting quandry....
the obvious answer that we would all go for is the one with SVN service...
BUT we need to sort out some system to determine how we will do this in future as well... Whatever is decided needs to be recorded well so that if the other GB turns up one day
it should be able to be decifered ( <-sp?) as to what we have done.
(I agree with it taking the SVN history.)
and yes Jacks post above is a sad reminder of a good man gone. I hope they finish the few projects he had running.
oh and re this whole thread.... MMM GUNBUGGIES MMM :)
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This is an interesting quandry....
the obvious answer that we would all go for is the one with SVN service...
BUT we need to sort out some system to determine how we will do this in future as well... Whatever is decided needs to be recorded well so that if the other GB turns up one day
it should be able to be decifered ( <-sp?) as to what we have done.
(I agree with it taking the SVN history.)
and yes Jacks post above is a sad reminder of a good man gone. I hope they finish the few projects he had running.
oh and re this whole thread.... MMM GUNBUGGIES MMM :)
Yes it is an interesting question and we currently have the same issue with another vehicle. ARN 112-166 a Lube and servicing workshop and Vietnam vet subject of a 1966-67 photo album "I was a warrior" from Rob M a RAEME craftsman. (http://remlr.com/vietmoseley.html (http://remlr.com/vietmoseley.html))
112-166 109 1961 - Series 2 6032 Lubricating and servicing unit, power operated, Truck mounted, 3/4 ton GS. unk 25304001A - 750x16 39 NSW. Original chassis was 153101763
More importantly is that both chassis are owned by different members of this forum.
112-166 was an SII workshop and is now fitted with an SIIa chassis.
(http://remlr.com/nonremlr/robmoseley/RM_66_nui_dat_my_landy_workshop_truck_at_work.jpg)Tommy, I see it the other way, the Chassis entered the Army as 112-726 and exited the Army as 112-723, it way well have had the same body all the way even through the rebuild,
Diana, did it retain the original engine. < The unpublished REMLR image records from the ARN book, indicate that both the chassis and engine numbers changed from 112-726 to 112-723 at the same time, so looks like a ARN swap rather that reassembled from different bits, however the current engine is a different number again and one that is within the Army number set but not listed against a vehicle. It was possibly a crate engine. >
As we know the Army did not use chassis number as the form of identification (as is done in civilian registrations) the ARN was the form of identity and plates where quite often changed over, often with a record note of different vehicle with the ARN.
So I think it is both, but there is another that can claim ownership to 112-723 as well.
Depending on what era you want to restore it too whould determine what ARN you use
I would go Vietnam 112-726, it's original ARN
What do you think Diana?
Regards
Scott
Hi Scott
As Digger, suggests it is a quandry.
At discharge it was in AusCam and has evidence of the later firewall MG mount. To restore to that configuration it is 112-723.
If it gets restored to 112-726 it will have to be in olive drab without the firewall MG mount. Our club is frequently involved in Long Tan Day events, so I would feel appropriate to present it as 112-726 with the appropriate formation signs.
Also willing to hear other opinions.
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Yes, the changing chassis numbers has always been a quandry, and as you can see from the ARN records, I have added what information I can when identity is unsure.
In the ARN ledgers, the entry for the arn's in these cases has the original chassis number struck out, and a new chassis number written above or below. So the identity would be with the vehicle, that has been rebuilt on a different chassis, or had the chassis replaced. And on that basis is how I have been working in most of the land rover arn entries and inters where these changes occur. that the later chassis now belongs to that ARN (or identity).
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For what it is worth, in my opinion the difference between a Gunbuggy, Ambulance, Wksp variant or Fire Appliance or any other labour intensive variant, lies wholly in the body of the vehicle. The rest of it is standard (or pretty close to it) Land Rover.
This does not only apply to Series 2 and 2a vehicles but right through the board, including the Perenties and more currently the G Wagens.
The base vehicle is the same, chassis, brakes, steering suspension, engine and drive-train are all interchangeable well within the BER parameters (In the more modern vehicles the body styles are modular), and commonly interchanged as we have seen. Therefore it must be the body fittings and layout that make a vehicle what it is rather than the chassis or engine. (Perhaps we should be likening a vehicle to a human body, as with the wonders of modern medicine we can now replace hearts, limbs, organs etc, insert implants, remove superfluous bits etc but we still have the same person remaining.) So the question remains; Does the Army issue an ARN to a vehicle in its entirety or to a chassis/engine number?
If we follow chassis numbers we can come up with all sorts of anomalies, such as a twelve seat station wagon used to carry Officer trainees at Canungra, that was built on a BER'ed fire truck chassis being called a "fire truck".
The question as I see it is how the Army saw a vehicle, as a whole entity or as a registered part number. (Those station sedans at Canungra I believe were issued new ARNs when they were taken back on the books in their new born form.)
As for Series 2 Workshops, well that is another story. I believe that they were definitely developed at ADE on Series two chassis, one of each variant was refined, fiddled with, improved until the final layout was decided upon and then they were released to the Army for general use coinciding (intentionally??) with the new S2a contract.
The Workshop photographed in an earlier post, 112 166 may have been developed on a S2 chassis but everything else on that vehicle screams S2a, which would lead one to believe that that particular vehicle was one that was purchased as a S2, then spent a bit of time at ADE Maribyrnong being developed and refined as the particular vehicle type it was destined to eventually be and then released coinciding with the advent of the new S2a contract. Even the ARN is right on the cusp.
Understanding that nothing ever happens immediately in any Government body it is relatively easy to understand that the Australian Army had put forward their particular projected requirements to Land Rover (that were well and truly over and above what the Standard Land Rover of the day offered,) around about the same time the developmental process of these vehicles began, and the fruition dates on both sides of the fence, Land Rover and ADE, came together pretty well, taking all bureaucratic hurdles into consideration.
The nomenclature plates and also the "into service" plate under the bonnet only tell half the story. They tell when the base vehicle was accepted onto the books. In the case of a specialist vehicle, after this date these vehicles were dispatched to various Base Workshops where the relevant modifications took place. In the case of a "gunbuggy" these mods took approximately 300 man hours, which is quite a considerable amount of time and expense, before they were once again released to an Ordnance base prior to Unit allocation.
In other words, in the case of Onslow (112 722), he was accepted by the Army in June 1963 and he then went to S Command Wksps where he was stripped down and rebuilt as a Gunbuggy. Eventually when he came out of this process and released to Ordnance, they took him on their books, listed him as a 6005C rather than the 6005 he was originally, and as a Unit requirement came up, he was allocated to 3 RAR, issued an ARN and from that day on was treated as any other Unit vehicle. When he went to war however the footing changed and suddenly he was treated more as a weapon than a vehicle and a lot of his repairs were done in the field, parts often fitted where required by whoever was available rather than the more lengthy process of going to a Field Workshops where repairs could take longer, and as a result, a lot of his repair paperwork either didn't exist in the first place or has simply been lost as far as normal AB416's are concerned.
I have not had that much success following his Vietnam History apart from the fact that he served with 3 RAR, 9 RAR and 6 RAR on their second tour. This second tour terminated in May 1970 so the only fill in dates I can presume between then and 3 RARs second tour from Feb-Oct 1971 put him possibly serving with 7 RAR for a time but I so far cannot verify this. I believe that he came home to Australia again with his old Unit 3 RAR. He did receive a new engine somewhere along that time frame but I cannot (so far) find out when. (It is quite handy when you find the Anti tank Sgt from Support Coy 6 RAR is a member of the same RSL club.) I do know that he had a number of parts fitted during his 69-70 stint but no official paperwork to back it up.
Enough ramblings. I have wandered far enough off subject as it is.
Regards
Glen
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Hi Glen
I substantially agree with your comments, although in relation to the buggys, the chassis mods are rather specific to RCL carriers. Particularly I would suggest the removal of the rear chassis outriggers plus the larger hole and tubing for the ram-rod etc would make them unique to the one census, even if they did play musical chassis' and musical bodies.
As suggested elsewhere, most (if not all) vehicles returning from SVN went through the rebuild line and as you say the body panels are not stamped, so we don't know which body went on which buggy after rebuild. All we do know is which chassis it started with and which one it ended with.
It is quite possible that for some vehicles after rebuild, the only parts that went to SVN were the ARN plates (and maybe not even those). At least we do have an idea which chassis numbers most probably went to SVN.
As for the 112-166, it had standard mudguards in the SVN images, does this make it the SII chassis?
I guess it all comes down to pragmatism, if you want to present a vehicle as representing a particular period or event, then it would be nice that at least part of it was actually there.
Diana :)
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Three new photos :)
112-724. A copy of the photo placed in post # 32.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112-724s_zpsde550953.jpg)
Multiple Gunbuggys about to set out on patrol, Nui Dat, SVN. I cannot quite make out the rear Gunbuggys ARN but I am endeavouring to find out more about this photo. ARN looks like 112-??4. It may be 112-514. I hope so as we do not have a photograph of this buggy.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/OnPatrolNuiDat_zps9175a121.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/OnPatrolNuiDatCloseUp_zps608cc162.jpg)
This photo shows a Gunbuggy parked up at 1 ATF transport yard, SVN.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/VehiclePark_zps8a5c577c.jpg)
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After some more investigation into this Gunbuggy, I have come to the conclusion that it is either 112-734 or 112-724. You can just see the top right hand section of the ARN plate. The top of the last number appears to be a 4. The number to the left of it appears to be either a 2 or 3. The 3 seems to have a slightly curvier top than the 2 (compare the two numbers in the photo below). The number to the left of the 2 or 3 can only be a 7 as there are no other Gunbuggy ARNs that have a flat top for this number.
If you think it may be 112-724 or 112-734 please feel free to comment. I'm leaning towards 724 as it has the belt buckle straps for the rear seats and the TAC plate is in the same position as shown in the SVN photo.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112-7242_zpsb2909705.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112-724a_zps85bcc3b4.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/113-253alow_zps45bf4105.jpg)
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Another photo :)
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Gunbuggy about to board HMAS Sydney for SVN. Not sure of the ARN but it is a 110- or 111- Buggy..
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/GunbuggySydney1_zps6177fb68.jpg)
This photo shows 111-578 on board the Sydney ready for the journey to SVN. The previous photo shows no markings or paperwork on aero screen. Is this an indication that the information (on the screen) is placed onto the vehicle once it has boarded the ship? BTW, this is the only photo we have of 578 showing it carrying it's 106mm RCL.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/111-578Sydney_zps682404c0.jpg)
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For what it is worth, in my opinion the difference between a Gunbuggy, Ambulance, Wksp variant or Fire Appliance or any other labour intensive variant, lies wholly in the body of the vehicle. The rest of it is standard (or pretty close to it) Land Rover.
This does not only apply to Series 2 and 2a vehicles but right through the board, including the Perenties and more currently the G Wagens.
The base vehicle is the same, chassis, brakes, steering suspension, engine and drive-train are all interchangeable well within the BER parameters (In the more modern vehicles the body styles are modular), and commonly interchanged as we have seen. Therefore it must be the body fittings and layout that make a vehicle what it is rather than the chassis or engine. (Perhaps we should be likening a vehicle to a human body, as with the wonders of modern medicine we can now replace hearts, limbs, organs etc, insert implants, remove superfluous bits etc but we still have the same person remaining.) So the question remains; Does the Army issue an ARN to a vehicle in its entirety or to a chassis/engine number?
If we follow chassis numbers we can come up with all sorts of anomalies, such as a twelve seat station wagon used to carry Officer trainees at Canungra, that was built on a BER'ed fire truck chassis being called a "fire truck".
The question as I see it is how the Army saw a vehicle, as a whole entity or as a registered part number. (Those station sedans at Canungra I believe were issued new ARNs when they were taken back on the books in their new born form.)
As for Series 2 Workshops, well that is another story. I believe that they were definitely developed at ADE on Series two chassis, one of each variant was refined, fiddled with, improved until the final layout was decided upon and then they were released to the Army for general use coinciding (intentionally??) with the new S2a contract.
The Workshop photographed in an earlier post, 112 166 may have been developed on a S2 chassis but everything else on that vehicle screams S2a, which would lead one to believe that that particular vehicle was one that was purchased as a S2, then spent a bit of time at ADE Maribyrnong being developed and refined as the particular vehicle type it was destined to eventually be and then released coinciding with the advent of the new S2a contract. Even the ARN is right on the cusp.
Understanding that nothing ever happens immediately in any Government body it is relatively easy to understand that the Australian Army had put forward their particular projected requirements to Land Rover (that were well and truly over and above what the Standard Land Rover of the day offered,) around about the same time the developmental process of these vehicles began, and the fruition dates on both sides of the fence, Land Rover and ADE, came together pretty well, taking all bureaucratic hurdles into consideration.
The nomenclature plates and also the "into service" plate under the bonnet only tell half the story. They tell when the base vehicle was accepted onto the books. In the case of a specialist vehicle, after this date these vehicles were dispatched to various Base Workshops where the relevant modifications took place. In the case of a "gunbuggy" these mods took approximately 300 man hours, which is quite a considerable amount of time and expense, before they were once again released to an Ordnance base prior to Unit allocation.
In other words, in the case of Onslow (112 722), he was accepted by the Army in June 1963 and he then went to S Command Wksps where he was stripped down and rebuilt as a Gunbuggy. Eventually when he came out of this process and released to Ordnance, they took him on their books, listed him as a 6005C rather than the 6005 he was originally, and as a Unit requirement came up, he was allocated to 3 RAR, issued an ARN and from that day on was treated as any other Unit vehicle. When he went to war however the footing changed and suddenly he was treated more as a weapon than a vehicle and a lot of his repairs were done in the field, parts often fitted where required by whoever was available rather than the more lengthy process of going to a Field Workshops where repairs could take longer, and as a result, a lot of his repair paperwork either didn't exist in the first place or has simply been lost as far as normal AB416's are concerned.
I have not had that much success following his Vietnam History apart from the fact that he served with 3 RAR, 9 RAR and 6 RAR on their second tour. This second tour terminated in May 1970 so the only fill in dates I can presume between then and 3 RARs second tour from Feb-Oct 1971 put him possibly serving with 7 RAR for a time but I so far cannot verify this. I believe that he came home to Australia again with his old Unit 3 RAR. He did receive a new engine somewhere along that time frame but I cannot (so far) find out when. (It is quite handy when you find the Anti tank Sgt from Support Coy 6 RAR is a member of the same RSL club.) I do know that he had a number of parts fitted during his 69-70 stint but no official paperwork to back it up.
Enough ramblings. I have wandered far enough off subject as it is.
Regards
Glen
Extremely interesting reading Glen. You make a lot of sense in your analysis of this dilemma.
I look at it this way. When a vehicle is sold off from active service, the auction catalogue states an ARN. Just like the current Perenties sales. The ARN is indisputably attached to the vehicle being disposed of. This is the only ARN the ADF recognises. It is not known as any other.
For example, in the case of Diana's Gunbuggy, the ARN stated on the disposal documents was 112-723 (I presume). That is the vehicle she bought and not 112-726 no matter how many changes were made to the vehicle. I don't know if I am right or wrong on this one but to me it makes sense :)
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Tommy,
Have to agree with you on that. The chassis is just another 'spare part'. There are plenty of instances where the ARN entry includes both changes to engine number and chassis number during the life of the vehicle in service. There are also plenty of entries with no chassis number listed (not for L/R- other types). The one constant, from acceptance to disposal, is the ARN.
Even tanks and APCs get new/replacement hulls but retain their ARN. There is also evidence that, in at least one instance (with the M113A1 FOV) there was clearly a mix-up along the rebuild line, and certain hull numbers comes out with a different ARN assigned - a direct 'swap' that appears to be an error rather than intentional. (Makes tracing its history tricky, though!)
Mike C
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Gunbuggy about to board HMAS Sydney for SVN. Not sure of the ARN but it is a 110- or 111- Buggy..
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/GunbuggySydney1_zps6177fb68.jpg)
This photo shows 111-578 on board the Sydney ready for the journey to SVN. The previous photo shows no markings or paperwork on aero screen. Is this an indication that the information (on the screen) is placed onto the vehicle once it has boarded the ship? BTW, this is the only photo we have of 578 showing it carrying it's 106mm RCL.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/111-578Sydney_zps682404c0.jpg)
As it is being driven on it has the bars already marked on w/screen, but the paper obviously couldnt be fitted til it wasnt being driven (I notice most others have the paper taped on pass side screen.)
(is it SA6 on the grill badge? would be consistant with SA4 that RichardO had located....)
This whole thread is a real credit to you Tommy (and porn to me :) ),
It is concise well done and a fantastic reference peice also, well done!!
Keep it up mate!
MMMMMMMMMM Gunbuggy MMMMMMMMMMM
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I too, watch this thread (and others) silently but really appreciate the effort. Silently, because I have nothing to contribute besides 'WOW' etc..
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There is also evidence that, in at least one instance (with the M113A1 FOV) there was clearly a mix-up along the rebuild line, and certain hull numbers comes out with a different ARN assigned - a direct 'swap' that appears to be an error rather than intentional. (Makes tracing its history tricky, though!)
Mike C
If I recall the Trials M37's had a similar story with chassis numbers muddled up!
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M37?
Mike C
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Dodge M37, Tony Eagling's and it's kin. If I recall the entry noted something along the lines of there being a manufacturing mistake, and the plated chassis number, and actual chassis number were all 1 number off.
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This AWM film shows plenty of Gunbuggies.
http://www.awm.gov.au/collection/video/F04328.WMV
Amongst them is 112-373. This buggy was a Western Australian based Land Rover (see post #23). The two images in post #23 show the same Gunbuggy driving down a street in Fremantle and the other on display at a Perth shopping centre. Copy of images placed in post #23.
This now confirms that 112-373 was another SVN Gunbuggy.
112-373
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/GB112-373_zps78bb1f4b.jpg) (http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/GB1_zpscf101a6b.jpg)
I suspect this is also 373 as it has only the driver, left hand seated rear gunner, no aero screens and large mud flaps. Same as the images above.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/GB3_zps1b98612a.jpg)
ARN unknown.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/GB2_zpsc6e58d79.jpg)
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More screenshots. Taken from various films :)
Unloading from HMAS Sydney.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/GB11_zpse250e968.jpg) (http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/GB12_zps85eb538b.jpg)
Demonstration for dignitaries on the range - Puckapunyal.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/GB5_zps7afec99d.jpg) (http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/GB8_zps092984c3.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/GB7_zpsdda070bf.jpg) (http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/GB6_zps4b986f3f.jpg)
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Driving at speed over rough ground. You may just make out the gunner has been lifted off his seat from the tank track rut that the Gunbuggy just hit.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/edbbf89d-6ca8-426e-8920-05b524a51f65_zps92487255.jpg)
106mm RCL placed on ground after removal from Gunbuggy.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/GB13_zpsece4bc01.jpg)
This image is intriguing as it shows a Gunbuggy in a defensive position with it's gun swung 90 degrees to face directly up the road.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/GB4_zpsf7113962.jpg)
Another image.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/GB9_zps912c0279.jpg)
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(is it SA6 on the grill badge? would be consistant with SA4 that RichardO had located....)
Every Battalion had vehicles numbered "SA1-SA6" in their Support Company, so it follows that because there were 9 Battalions that served in SVN, there would have theoretically been 9x "SA6s" and 9x "SA4s" . Because the Bns rotated and the gunbuggies didn't necessarily rotate, then each buggy possibly could have had a different SA number depending on the Bn to which it was attached at that particular time. A bit like numbering your allotted patrol car "D1". Over the past couple of years there have more than likely been a number of "D1"s and as the government gives out new ones then there will be new "D1"s yet to come!
Regards
Glen
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The following list shows the Gunbuggies (marked in brown) that have been identified from photos as having seen service in SVN.
Apart from the Gunbuggies shown in brown, which are the others that have seen service in SVN? I have shown (in blue) the Gunbuggies that have a reference to SVN service in REMLR ARN page.
If Scotts (FFRMAN) calculations are correct that there were 67 Gunbuggies in total, then at least 33% of all Gunbuggies served in SVN.
ARN 110-
110-395, 110-412, 110-423, 110-447, 110-501, 110-506, 110-518, 110-537, 110-542, 110-687, 110-715, 110-720, 110-724, 110-776, 110-780, 110-785, 110-786, 110-797, 110-807, 110-849
ARN 111-
111-132, 111-552, 111-578, 111-613, 111-650, 111-660, 111-661
ARN 112-
112-243, 112-245?, 112-246, 112-253, 112-254, 112-255, 112-256, 112-257, 112-258, 112-259, 112-325, 112-333, 112-334, 112-335, 112-336, 112-337, 112-371, 112-372, 112-373, 112-374, 112-375, 112-376, 112-377, 112-378, 112-379, 112-510, 112-512, 112-514, 112-516, 112-517, 112-578, 112-655, 112-722, 112-723, 112-724, 112-725, 112-726, 112-727, 112-728, 112-729, 112-730, 112-731, 112-732, 112-733, 112-734
ARN 113-
113-253
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112-726, this was probably the one with wet feet at 2AOD and was confirmed by Mike C as being on the 2AOD books.
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112-726, this was probably the one with wet feet at 2AOD and was confirmed by Mike C as being on the 2AOD books.
Thanks Diana :)
I'll put it down as a 'reference' until we can confirm the ARN in the photo.
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Tommy,
my GB 112-245 is meant to have been in SVN (previous owner confirms this) REMLR database (offline) confirms this but I am yet to do the research nor have I a photo in SVN.....
cheers
Scott
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The following list shows the Gunbuggies (marked in brown) that have been identified from photos as having seen service in SVN.
Apart from the Gunbuggies shown in brown, which are the others that have seen service in SVN? I have shown (in blue) the Gunbuggies that have a reference to SVN service in REMLR ARN page.
If Scotts (FFRMAN) calculations are correct that there were 67 Gunbuggies in total, then at least 33% of all Gunbuggies served in SVN.
ARN 110-
110-395, 110-412, 110-423, 110-447, 110-501, 110-506, 110-518, 110-537, 110-542, 110-687, 110-715, 110-720, 110-724, 110-776, 110-780, 110-785, 110-786, 110-797, 110-807, 110-849
ARN 111-
111-132, 111-552, 111-578, 111-613, 111-650, 111-660, 111-661
ARN 112-
112-243, 112-245, 112-246, 112-253, 112-254, 112-255, 112-256, 112-257, 112-258, 112-259, 112-325, 112-333, 112-334, 112-335, 112-336, 112-337, 112-371, 112-372, 112-373, 112-374, 112-375, 112-376, 112-377, 112-378, 112-379, 112-510, 112-512, 112-514, 112-516, 112-517, 112-578, 112-655, 112-722, 112-723, 112-724, 112-725, 112-726, 112-727, 112-728, 112-729, 112-730, 112-731, 112-732, 112-733, 112-734
ARN 113-
113-253
I cant work this out does it mean my gunbuggy was in SVN or not???
**mainly because I dont know which one Im getting... :o :D**
Thanks Glen for the SA6 info, I didnt even think of it that way so now feel a bit sheepish.. Thanks though, every bit I learn is good.
Tommy, thanks again!!
great
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Tommy,
my GB 112-245 is meant to have been in SVN (previous owner confirms this) REMLR database (offline) confirms this but I am yet to do the research nor have I a photo in SVN.....
cheers
Scott
Thanks Scott
I'll put it down as a 'reference' with a question mark until you have confirmation.
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Ref 112245: I have found no reference to this registration serving in SVN, so would be interested to know, too. I see the REMLR database lists it, but with no specific reference to SVN.
I have my doubts it was sent to SVN. Besides not showing up as such in research thus far, it was also one of the very late disposals. It was still held in storage at Moorebank Log Bn in late 1993. Neither situation is definitive, of course, but it does tend to cast doubt on the SVN claim.
Mike C
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Ref 112245: I have found no reference to this registration serving in SVN, so would be interested to know, too. I see the REMLR database lists it, but with no specific reference to SVN.
I have my doubts it was sent to SVN. Besides not showing up as such in research thus far, it was also one of the very late disposals. It was still held in storage at Moorebank Log Bn in late 1993. Neither situation is definitive, of course, but it does tend to cast doubt on the SVN claim.
Mike C
Thanks Mike,
re; 112 245, previous owners says he did research but only hear say...
the REMLR database offline has a Vietnam service Y or N section it was marked Y - no proof but I'll ask Pheonix where this came from
I'm not stressed either way from an ownership point of view but I do want to know it's history, there is a photo of it in late service (camo paint that it still has on it) and I know a guy who knows one of the guys in the photo - so a starting point.
regards
Scott
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Damn I need to do some work on the DB around this thread!
Not sure where the Y on that one came from actually, may have been a typo, feel free to change it until such time as we have something more definitive!
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There is a couple of errors on the GB database, the broken link on the 112-723 that mentions SVN service should probably be deleted as Mike couldn't find a record for it either.
(Damn, it was that comment that made me select 723 instead of Numpty's 372)
(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRg0ISbSYOedAszLw4DikH4itIt423Tz0dpNrXi4dxWEhWzaGHkEi7I-eWz)
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This AWM film shows plenty of Gunbuggies.
http://www.awm.gov.au/collection/video/F04328.WMV
Amongst them is 112-373. This buggy was a Western Australian based Land Rover (see post #23). The two images in post #23 show the same Gunbuggy driving down a street in Fremantle and the other on display at a Perth shopping centre. Copy of images placed in post #23.
This now confirms that 112-373 was another SVN Gunbuggy.
112-373
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/GB112-373_zps78bb1f4b.jpg) (http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/GB1_zpscf101a6b.jpg)
Yes there does appear to be at least one Gunbuggy missing from the 'Mud & Dust' Vietnam list. 112-373.
Maybe there are more surprises to come :)
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A few more screenshots from AWM films.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/GB15_zpsfa15d761.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/GB16_zpsfa7adc08.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/GB17_zps8b3f1e62.jpg)
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More...
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/GB18_zpsfcd50077.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/GB19_zps83e993bb.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/GB20_zps89e199a7.jpg)
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A few more screenshots from AWM films.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/GB17_zps8b3f1e62.jpg)
Is that No5. trailer hooked onto the GB, I have see an odd GB with a pintle hook.......
regards
Scott
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Ref 112245: I have found no reference to this registration serving in SVN, so would be interested to know, too. I see the REMLR database lists it, but with no specific reference to SVN.
I have my doubts it was sent to SVN. Besides not showing up as such in research thus far, it was also one of the very late disposals. It was still held in storage at Moorebank Log Bn in late 1993. Neither situation is definitive, of course, but it does tend to cast doubt on the SVN claim.
Mike C
This gives me the chance to ask a question...
was there some sort of policy that made the sale of vehicles after they returned from SVN a priority? Seems like most were sold out of service reasonably early (if not almost immediately) after return..
This is just something I wondered about for a while... (obviously there will be exceptions etc)
Thanks guys
Digger
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I'm not sure there was a policy as such regarding just SVN vehicles: simply an Army-wide policy concerning the number of hours and cost of parts required to return them (no matter where they were used) to issuable standard. Once a vehicle hit the $$ and time threshold, it was sent for disposal.
Vehicles that had been in SVN for some time, handed from unit to unit, and generally 'kept going', were often in a pretty sorry state by the time they were deemed no longer issuable in theatre. Once that happened, one of two things appears to have happened with B vehicles and Engineer plant: if Beyond Economical Repair, then written off and disposed of in country through the US disposal system. If deemed in country to be Beyond Local Repair, they were backloaded to Australia. The workshop in Aust would then re-examine/assess the vehicle prior to commencing work, and it was again either written off, or repaired/rebuilt.
Mike C
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Cheers, I have wondered if that was the case or if there was a policy so thats another thing cleared up. ta!
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Thread update.....
I had another look at the Gunbuggy below and found that it was 110-537 instead of 112-517. I should have known that it was not 112-517 as it has rounded guards :-[. We didn't have any photos of 537...now we do :)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/110-537_zpsb97ec4e7.jpg)
This Gunbuggy has been identified as 112-517 as it has an identical paint scratch mark on side of tub. See post #28 for comparison.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112-517a_zpsbaffe83e.jpg)
This Gunbuggy is also 112-517. See photos #2 & 3 in post #28 for comparison. Apart from the paint scratch, 517 can be identified by the small elongated dent just forward of the tub end. In this photo, the paint has yet to be scratched but the dent is evident.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112-517b_zpsffbcd2f0.jpg)
Another one of 517.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112-517e_zpscc145118.jpg)
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This aerial photograph shows 1st Brigade at the completion of an exercise in 1990. If you look closely, you will see four Gunbuggies amongst the vehicles. Two of the buggies are carrying the 106mm RCL and the other two are without.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/1bde1990GBx4_zps10b0589d.jpg)
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Tommy might be a bit short on numbers for 1 bde looks like 1 sqn from 1AR and another from 2 CAV and possibly 5/7 RAR for the b veh and gun buggies ;)
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Tommy might be a bit short on numbers for 1 bde looks like 1 sqn from 1AR and another from 2 CAV and possibly 5/7 RAR for the b veh and gun buggies ;)
I quoted the caption on the photo Booger..."1 Bde 1990" ;)
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I'm not sure there was a policy as such regarding just SVN vehicles: simply an Army-wide policy concerning the number of hours and cost of parts required to return them (no matter where they were used) to issuable standard. Once a vehicle hit the $$ and time threshold, it was sent for disposal.
...
..... Mike C
Mike
Further to the above, isn't there a different policy, or at least a different value, when the vehicle is a weapons platform i.e. a tank or in this case a RCL carrier and this is the reason that the SII and SIIa buggies remained in service far longer than other SIIa Rovers?
Diana
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Dianna,
Possibly: the policy is the same, but the hours/$$ doubtless vary.
Ref: The 1 Bde image: looks like at least 2 Sabre Sqns from 1AR, plus HQ Sqn, Tech Support Sqn and SEQ Troops at least, plus a bunch of others.
I wonder if the Gunbuggys without RCLs have the Milan mounting? Those so equipped were 5/7RAR (Mech) vehicles, I think. How clear is the print you have, Tommy? Can you see that level of detail?
Mike C
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looks like a lot of gear for one solitary fuel tanker!!
Love the bikes out front!
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Dianna,
Possibly: the policy is the same, but the hours/$$ doubtless vary.
Ref: The 1 Bde image: looks like at least 2 Sabre Sqns from 1AR, plus HQ Sqn, Tech Support Sqn and SEQ Troops at least, plus a bunch of others.
I wonder if the Gunbuggys without RCLs have the Milan mounting? Those so equipped were 5/7RAR (Mech) vehicles, I think. How clear is the print you have, Tommy? Can you see that level of detail?
Mike C
This is probably the best that I can do Mike :)
The first and third Gunbuggies appear to have quite a bit of gear sitting on both sides of the tub.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/1bde1990a_zpsc734003c.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/1bde1990b_zpsc75a8922.jpg)
This Gunbuggy photo comes from the Anzac Steel website. The caption says that it belonged to 5/7 RAR. Maybe the bulky gear that can be seen on the two buggies are the wire caged baskets shown in this photo.
http://anzacsteel.hobbyvista.com/othervehicles/landroverph_3.htm
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/lrswb2a10.jpg)
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Tommy,
had you seen this shot?
(http://au104.org/Photo4/images66-70/104Sigs_68-4.jpg)
Caption.."4RAR 106mm Recoilless Rifles with there special Land-Rover Series 2 Gunbuggy. Photos supplied by Geoff Jonas [1968]"
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G'day Digger
Sorry for the delay in replying ::)
Yes I have seen that one...and I shed a tear each time :'(. Why didn't the photographer move to his right some more and take a photo showing the front of the vehicles. What a missed opportunity. Having said that, it is a nice shot. Obviously setup to show off the units Gunbuggies soon after their arrival in SVN (they still have their 106 RCLs).
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Here is a pic I found on the 10/27 website. :D
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Good find, the more the merrier.
I see a triangle marking. And saltbush.... SA?
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yep - SA - it is 10/27 RSAR
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Cultana by the look of it.
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Cultana by the look of it.
So buggies in SA were part of a cult!
Mmmmmm Gunbuggy cult! 8)
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Cultana by the look of it.
So buggies in SA were part of a cult!
Mmmmmm Gunbuggy cult! 8)
I'm in!!
Hail holy gunbuggy........ ohhh did I say that out loud...... :o
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The following photographs have been shown before but are now of a higher resolution.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/Bugge_zps7cc8959c.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/Buggc_zpse0171984.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/Buggf_zps582b0e20.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/Buggd_zps12b645d8.jpg)
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Some new discovered photos :D
On board the Sydney.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/Bugga_zps2a621093.jpg)
Bogged :(. This Gunbuggy is most probably 110-506 as it has the same 'red' TAC plate on RHS front guard panel and rectangular plate mounted to the top of the radiator grill. The ARN plate is also in the same position. You will also notice that the gunner is sitting on a rear mounted spare wheel. 110-506 is the only 110- Gunbuggy that had the wheel mount there.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/Buggb_zpsc6e74814.jpg)
Dug in. The early S2 steering wheel would suggest that this Gunbuggy is 110-715.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/Buggg_zpsd8766991.jpg)
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Here is a pic I found on the 10/27 website. :D
The photo that Aussie Jeepster posted up was back to front :) Not his fault as it was publish that way around.
Spin it around and you get this... :). Note the same red triangle with the other Gunbuggy. What does the triangle represent and can anybody identify the barracks at which the photo was taken.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/bug1_zpsb853f9e1.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/ARNUnknown_zps74f9c6de.jpg)
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G'day Tommy, The triangle most likely would place it in an Armoured Corps unit meaning A squadron. The earlier photo maybe also RAAC or on loan to the Inf. unit. Gunbuggies alternated from RAINF to RAAC for many years.
The 16 would also place it in RAAC. 1 for A Sqn and the 6 (from memory) the Anti Armour Troop.
Lacking the A, B etc part of the callsign though by the look of it.
Greg Mac.
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G'day Tommy, The triangle most likely would place it in an Armoured Corps unit meaning A squadron. The earlier photo maybe also RAAC or on loan to the Inf. unit. Gunbuggies alternated from RAINF to RAAC for many years.
The 16 would also place it in RAAC. 1 for A Sqn and the 6 (from memory) the Anti Armour Troop.
Lacking the A, B etc part of the callsign though by the look of it.
Greg Mac.
G'day Greg
Thanks for that explanation. Was there an armoured unit based in SA?
The Gunbuggy in the background with the same red triangle has '16b' call sign. This would match up with your call sign analogy.
-
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/ARNUnknown_zps74f9c6de.jpg)
[/quote]
Notice the 4WD tyre wear plate is not in it's usual place, it appears to be above the passenger side parcel shelf and not above the guages..
Haven't seen this before
regards
Scott
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Tks Tommy, I couldn't make out the other callsign. So that makes the vehicle 16 the Troop Leaders vehicle, 16A the Troop Sgt and 16B would be the Troop Cpl. The remaining callsign 16C the Jnr Cpl/Lance Cpl or a Trooper.
Leaving four G/Bs in the Troop with two always working in unison. So 16 would work with 16B with one doing the shoot and scoot with the other one backing up in case of a miss or covering for another likely A vehicle in close proximity.
A slightly hazardous occupation in hostile Armoured vehicle territory. (which we haven't done for quiet a while)
Greg
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Call sign 16 is troop leader 16b is troop cpl 16a is troop sgt dont know what raac units were inSA
took to long greg beat me to it
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Reserve Unit with Buckets. S.A.Mounted Rifles. (SAMR)
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They the ones with the circus badge
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I think they had a Magpie badge.
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They the ones with the circus badge
I believe they have a piping shrike emblem (like a magpie) This bird appears "displayed proper" with its wings outstretched and curved upwards. Normally has a yellow background,
more often than not circular.
(the reason for this emblem)
In 1901, Governor Tennyson in his despatch to the Secretary of State for Colonies said “I herewith forward a flag with the new device upon it – the South Australian
Shrike in the rising sun of the Commonwealth and hope that as it is a fine design and one which has been favourably received here….”
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I was getting their badge confused with the 1/15 they have an elephant on their badge this is the one you mean
http://www.army.gov.au/Who-we-are/Divisions-and-Brigades/Forces-Command/2nd-Division/9th-Brigade/3rd_9th-Light-Horse-South-Australian-Mounted-Rifles
-
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/Bugga_zps2a621093.jpg)
Notice that the VTF (HMAS Sydney) was still flying the British White Ensign? The days before the Australian White Ensign was gazetted!
I was getting their badge confused with the 1/15 they have an elephant on their badge this is the one you mean
...
1/15 RNSW Lancers
(http://www.diggerhistory.info/images/badges-regt/badge-armour-1-15-rnsw-lancers.gif)
Pehaps more circus like when they have broom bristles poking out the top of the badge on the beret.
(http://www.lancers.org.au/images/newsletters/aug_2002/joe_gordon.jpg)
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Broom Bristles indeed;. Try Emu Feathers. Or laterley Emu Plumes like the old ones attached to the Slouchy.
Greg
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is that the oyster shell under construction in the rear of that photo also?
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Yep it sure is. Our next door neighbour/tennant was the Clerk of Works on the project so we had a number of private tours during construction. Before and after Utzon left.
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Another film showing a Gunbuggy in action. This time during training here in Australia. Unfortunately, the ARN plate is too 'fuzzy' to identify :(.
Interestingly, the front guard panels (both sides) are without any unit markings, bridge weight plate, convoy light or TAC plate holder apart from a single holder to the lower edge of the left hand panel. The standard oval shaped Land Rover badge to the top of the grill mesh has been replaced with a rectangular shaped plate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wy7lM5y4HIc&list=FLNhcyWiZl3X84_91V-fYzFA&index=2
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/bugsa_zpsc52d674c.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/bugsa1_zps23fd1674.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/bugsa11_zpsbb0c5a5b.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/bugsa111_zps439a8623.jpg)
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Good find there. Another Christmas gift.
Um, is the Hat, KFF, in the dead man zone?
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/bugsa11_zpsbb0c5a5b.jpg)
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Well, they were only training but with no ammunition, but if you look at the breech it is facing more towards the camera, but in a real situation me-thinks HKFF would be in serious trouble LOL cheers Dennis :)
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Yep, it would incinerate more than his H,K,FF!!!
I have some images of 106RCL being fired from M113A1. The back blast is HUGE and erupts fractionally before there is a muzzle blast, which is also pretty big. No wonder they only equipped the gun buggy with six rounds and even that was ambitious: no way to stay hidden after the first one, let alone 5 more! Definitely 'shoot and scooooot pronto quick-quick'.
Mike C
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could it be a prototype? (didnt look for dating on film etc)
can we date it by uniform or equipment?
(as in this only came in during xxxx so must be then or later?)
Thanks for that Mike, can we see that film or photo at some stage PLEEEEEEEEEAASSEE??
What is HKFF (Ill take a stab-- H ?? Khaki fully flammable ??? :) )
Thanks though... they are the best by far....
Im assuming that the operators would normally wear ear protection??
cheers (and happy new year)
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Digger, HKFF = Hat Khaki Fur Felt or it was when I wore one cheers Dennis :)
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Digger, HKFF = Hat Khaki Fur Felt or it was when I wore one cheers Dennis :)
Thankyou, makes sense!!
cheers!
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Doubt it is a prototype: they were all (well, the one they used for development work, anyway) was painted DBG until sometime after the pattern was 'sealed' and production/conversion was commenced. This vehicle appears to be Olive Drab lusterless, so the introduction of that colour might give a start date, ie the film was made after that date.
Agree about the meaning of H,K,FF. Hmmm - need to check and see if it's in the "Aust Military Abbreviations, Acronyms and Codes" book....
Mike C
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Here they just call it KFF just above KFS and below jack rations ;D
http://alldownunder.com/australian-slang/dictionary-military-3.htm
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hi i know a couple thing that will help date
1: rising sun badge before 1970 there were no rising badges as they still trying to decide on the current instead of rising badge unit badge was put there
2: the rising badge was around 1914 - 1960 than a short break they were gone because they could not make the mind up which one should be current one current
3: gp boot no ab boots for sure after 1970
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could it be a prototype? (didnt look for dating on film etc)
can we date it by uniform or equipment?
(as in this only came in during xxxx so must be then or later?)
Thanks for that Mike, can we see that film or photo at some stage PLEEEEEEEEEAASSEE??
What is HKFF (Ill take a stab-- H ?? Khaki fully flammable ??? :) )
Thanks though... they are the best by far....
Im assuming that the operators would normally wear ear protection??
cheers (and happy new year)
Not a prototype.
As mike suggests, we can date by the lack of DBG, but also because it has cut guards. The first production/retrofits were on SII command recon with uncut guards.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/bugsa1_zps23fd1674.jpg)
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Right at the start the film is dated 1970, 3 RAR training at Woodside prior to a February 71 detachment.
The instructor (HKFF) is pretty safe standing where he is as no ammo is loaded at all during the exercise. The badge on his slouch hat looks like an infantry badge to me and as said earlier that dates the photograph to pre 72. The uniforms they are wearing also date them to around the 70's mark as the trousers are the more modern American cut rather than the baggy ones that were issued in earlier years, and the jackets are the "pixie" jackets, also taken from the American model.
These blokes are not on their first training exercise either as it is pretty obvious as the barrel traverses the loader and crewie both move around in relationship with the barrels movement. Note the driver unlocks the barrel clamp.
I don't know what type of screens you are watching this film on but on mine I can see that the vehicle is wearing a 57 tac sign on the bottom right corner of the NS guard and the squarish sign on the grille looks like a SA4 but a bit hard to read.
It is a S2a and fitted with a brush guard. ARN is a bit harder.
The question is whether this actual vehicle went to Vietnam with 3 RAR or did they simply take over the existing vehicles in country.
By 1970-71 the writing was already on the wall that we were pulling out in 1972 so I can't really see that the vehicles would have been replaced for such a short period of time unless of course the existing ones were well and truly BER'ed.
I am under the belief that Onslow returned to country in 1972 with 3 RAR and according to photographs, know that he was in country prior to their arrival, serving with 6 RAR on their second tour and also with 9 RAR, so that is at least one that 3RAR took over from "in country" stocks.
Regards
Glen
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More photos :)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/Bug22_zpse03f2de6.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/Bug28_zpsb908433a.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/Bug25_zpsb64e1c1a.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/Bug27_zps5e79e7d2.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/Bug23_zps03c96be6.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/Bug24_zps69e3fb10.jpg)
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More photos :)
<3 images removed>
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/Bug23_zps03c96be6.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/Bug24_zps69e3fb10.jpg)
I'm no expert but the shells in the last image seem to come from a different recoilless weapon than the M40?
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I agree: I think you'll find it is for a Soviet 107mm RCL Model B-11 or Soviet-satellite/CHICOM equivalent (but built to that pattern). Looks a bit big for an 82mm RCL. The colour and markings on the projectile do not correspond with any US 106RCL markings, either, but that crap-brown colour is very similar to the colour used on Soviet cartridge packaging. The case appears shorter than the rounds for the M40A1, and the steel carry case/canister is different in design to the US and Brit equivalents, and has lugs for a shoulder strap. All points to a different round to the US made 106RCL round.
Mike C
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Saw that pic with 112-372 in it, in the Fighting Fourth book;
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ySKjSxTb-UI/Uso2fBjJ7RI/AAAAAAAAFLY/--nY3aRI4qs/w600-h479-no/gunbuggys-4rar-mission-vietnam-book-600w.jpg)
Also the text and artwork..
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-FVhV26x_88U/Uso2f7Nvx4I/AAAAAAAAFKc/Gd0DSEiu5JU/w345-h888-no/4rar-art-1.jpg)
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Interesting log book facts re SVN service are going with that GS 113-100. T GB photo can't establish anything regards 113-100, surely.
But what a bargain. Sigh, should have a big credit card. It'd save me a lot of time and I could get to Corowa this year in a drivers seat.. but I'm set to be a passenger I suppose. No biggie. 8)
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More photos :)
<3 images removed>
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/Bug23_zps03c96be6.jpg)
< Image removed >
I'm no expert but the shells in the last image seem to come from a different recoilless weapon than the M40?
Just thought I'd post up the M27 105mm RCL shells I have. (Ex-Alaska haul road)
(http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m2/Auntikinus/Army%20Land%20Rovers/RCL%20Carriers/DSCN0824.jpg)
(http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m2/Auntikinus/Army%20Land%20Rovers/RCL%20Carriers/DSCN0823cropped.jpg)
And the tubes.
(http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m2/Auntikinus/Army%20Land%20Rovers/RCL%20Carriers/DSCN0826.jpg)
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Nice one, Diana. The M27 and M27A1 were fixed mount RCLs for carriage on vehicles, or on fixed mounting points: they look quite different to the M40 series 106mm RCL. Had a greater range of ammunition types, too.
Mike C
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hi meaning you still were issued ab boots but the gp boots were more new to australia army and were starting to be issued around 1970
Cheers
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Hi all,
I was issued AB boots and gaiters and GP's , we didn't wear GP's until march out. This was '81.
Cheers,
Mick
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Hi, Below is a list of Gunbuggy ARN's that we have been working on, the ones in Bold (Black private/Green Museums) that we know exist today - are there anymore out there that people know. It would be nice to have a definitive answer on how many still exist
Regards
Scott
BOLD Black = known to be in private hands
BOLD Green = In Museums
UNDERLINED = Photo
ARN 110-
110-395, 110-412, 110-423, 110-447, 110-501, 110-506, 110-518, 110-537, 110-542, 110-715, 110-720 , 110-724, 110-776, 110-780, 110-785, 110-786, 110-797, 110-807, 110-849
ARN 111-
111-132, 111-552, 111-578, 111-613, 111-650, 111-660, 111-661
ARN 112-
112-243, 112-245, 112-246, 112-253, 112-254, 112-255, 112-256, 112-257, 112-258, 112-259, 112-325, 112-333, 112-334, 112-335, 112-336, 112-337, 112-371, 112-372, 112-373, 112-374,
112-375, 112-376, 112-377, 112-378, 112-379, 112-510, 112-512, 112-514, 112-516, 112-517, 112-578, 112-655, 112-722, 112-723, 112-724, 112-725, 112-726, 112-727, 112-728, 112-729
112-730, 112-731, 112-732, 112-733, 112-734
ARN 113-
113-253
Bump
Also link to a discussion and some more photos
http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?43695-106-recoilless-Landrover-2A-Vietnam
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Really?Where's the photo of 112-335?
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Really?Where's the photo of 112-335?
Post 20 but as found not in Service - sorry
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NOOOoooooooooo!
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112-???
S3? brush bar w/tyre mounted on the drivers side
undated
Credit: Stephen Mongoo 8/9 RAR (Enoggera, Brisbane, Australia)
Caption: "same exercise Gav, Chambo and I working hard"
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Hard to get much more from that number plate
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Photos undated, but still green (not cam)
Credit: Tony O'Donnell 8/9RAR ASSOCIATION
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its not mine. :(
While it has tools on the mudguards it has the reduced lighting headlamp in the front of the LHS mudguard.
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112-???
S3? brush bar w/tyre mounted on the drivers side
undated
Credit: Stephen Mongoo 8/9 RAR (Enoggera, Brisbane, Australia)
Caption: "same exercise Gav, Chambo and I working hard"
Could be 112-245, which is mine (hope so) the brush bar is a series 2A but has the horizontal rod welded in for the Jerry can to tie back to, same as 112-245 - which is unique as 112-245 has US style jerry can holders as opposed to the series 3 style that bolts into the bumper bar and does not need the tie down rod welded on.
112-245 was definately with 8/9 RAR as still has one of te 62/63 TAC plates
anyway maybe it is it - hope so
cheers
Scott
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Credits photo 1 - Rob Black, photos 2/3 - Shayne Fallon
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Fantastic! Thanks
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(http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w406/mick_marsh_AULRO/REMLR/dscf0230.jpg) (http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/mick_marsh_AULRO/media/REMLR/dscf0230.jpg.html)
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Sorry, not great resolution
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Sorry, not great resolution
Great stuff, we didn't have a photo of 112-377 at all and this is SVN as well, excellent
thanks
Scott
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Some may have seen the buggy at the NSW LR Club's Expo.
(http://www.slunnie.com/coppermine/albums/LROC%20Expo%202014/P9210225.JPG)
Image source and copyright: Simon Lun ( http://www.aulro.com/afvb/nsw-act-reports/204505-land-rover-clubs-expo-sunday-21-sep-2014-a-12.html#post2231049 (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/nsw-act-reports/204505-land-rover-clubs-expo-sunday-21-sep-2014-a-12.html#post2231049) )
The chassis number reveals it is 112-732
112-732 88 1963 - Series 2A 6005B Truck, Utility, 1/4 Ton, GS, Fitted For Rifle 106mm 25146090D 24303934B - 750x16 SA. 'Fitted For Rifle 106mm'. 27.02.92 - (engine now: 25343257K)
I guess we have to modify the database on known GB http://remlr.com/forum/index.php?topic=9.msg11356#msg11356 (http://remlr.com/forum/index.php?topic=9.msg11356#msg11356)Hi, Below is a list of Gunbuggy ARN's that Tommy has been working on, the ones in Bold (Black private/Green Museums) that we know exist today - are there anymore out there that people know. It would be nice to have a definitive answer on how many still exist
Regards
Scott
BOLD Black = known to be in private hands
BOLD Green = In Museums
UNDERLINED = Photo
ARN 110-
110-395, 110-412, 110-423, 110-447, 110-501, 110-506, 110-518, 110-537, 110-542, 110-715, 110-720 , 110-724, 110-776, 110-780, 110-785, 110-786, 110-797, 110-807, 110-849
ARN 111-
111-132, 111-552, 111-578, 111-613, 111-650, 111-660, 111-661
ARN 112-
112-243, 112-245, 112-246, 112-253, 112-254, 112-255, 112-256, 112-257, 112-258, 112-259, 112-325, 112-333, 112-334, 112-335, 112-336, 112-337,
112-371, 112-372, 112-373, 112-374, 112-375, 112-376, 112-377, 112-378, 112-379,
112-510, 112-512, 112-514, 112-516, 112-517, 112-578, 112-655, 112-722, 112-723, 112-724, 112-725, 112-726, 112-727, 112-728, 112-729
112-730, 112-731, 112-732, 112-733, 112-734
ARN 113-
113-253
Also 112-372 is known to be in private hands, so should be bold.
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Thanks Diana,
I'll check all my notes and update the info on the next post
Regard
Scott
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112-374 identified in Sydney.
Just thought I'd update the register that the above vehicle has been "found" (again).
112-374 88 1963 - Series 2A 6005B Truck, Utility, 1/4 Ton, GS, Fitted For Rifle 106mm 25146278D 24303982B - 750x16 Qld. 'Fitted For Rifle 106mm'. Auction Info. 25/3/1992, Camouflage, $2600. (Ian?) not noted -
Will post up photos later.
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Hey Diana, 112-374 wasn't lost. I knew where it was all the time. It has just left my place and will be getting some work done on in shortly. I drove it to the tilt tray so it still drives OK.
Geoff.
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Sorry, not great resolution
(http://remlr.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=9.0;attach=6491;image)
Is that 112-377 or 112-372. 372 was the more photographed one (if there are any of 377) the item of interest is the tac sign holder on the RHS guard in front of the firewall.
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Hey Diana, 112-374 wasn't lost. I knew where it was all the time. It has just left my place and will be getting some work done on in shortly. I drove it to the tilt tray so it still drives OK.
Geoff.
Hi Geoff
All is good, it was only lost to the REMLR database.
I know that the person escorting the tilt tray has known about it for a while, but I didn't know it was at your place.
Diana :)
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Actually the escort has known about it for a long time.
I will post a couple of photos shortly.
Geoff.
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Thought this may be useful, and maybe should be a sticky (but will let the Mods decide) it will be a work in progress as information comes to hand. :)
I couldn't post more than 3 links per post so have created the index as an Adope Acrobat document.
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Sorry, not great resolution
(http://remlr.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=9.0;attach=6491;image)
Is that 112-377 or 112-372. 372 was the more photographed one (if there are any of 377) the item of interest is the tac sign holder on the RHS guard in front of the firewall.
Almost certainly 377
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here is a tighter crop including the rear landy
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Thats great its the first photo of 112-377 and it confirms another buggy both in SVN and one that has the large formation sign holders on the sides! 8)
As for the catalogue of buggies AFAIK we are still looking for images of:
- 110-423
- 110-501
- 110-542
- 110-776
- 110-780
- 110-785
- 111-132
- 111-650
- 112-243
- 112-246
- 112-253
- 112-254
- 112-255
- 112-256
- 112-325
- 112-334
- 112-371
- 112-378
- 112-379
- 112-514
- 112-578
- 112-732
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ARN? 1964
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Either 110 or 111 Gunbuggy with last number 6 or 5. Note Kangaroo painted on side of tub.
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Tommy
Have you ever seen a buggy or other in-service SII or SIIa with an ign key?
You may have seen the comment about my buggy having a key with a an aluminium key tag and the letters SW5 stamped in. I can't see a post-service civilian tag being given the military vehicle ID "SW5".
I would be interested in your opinion.
Diana
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Tommy
Have you ever seen a buggy or other in-service SII or SIIa with an ign key?
You may have seen the comment about my buggy having a key with a an aluminium key tag and the letters SW5 stamped in. I can't see a post-service civilian tag being given the military vehicle ID "SW5".
I would be interested in your opinion.
Diana
Diana
Do you know the ownership history of your Gunbuggy 112-723 and it's 'civilian sister' 112-372. Both were recently bought from the same owner. Did he/she own them since release from army? Did 112-372 have a similar key tag?
Do you know when your Gunbuggy was released from service as there in no notation on REMLR ARN page?
I can think of two scenarios for the tags.
1. The tags were attached to a retro fitted ignition by the first civilian owner who gave your vehicle it's own ID of (SW2) after seeing this identification number SW2 on your vehicle. This would seem logical if there were more than one of the same type of Land Rover in use by same owner. No point getting single keys mixed up. Tag them and you solve that problem. If the vehicles weren't licenced, then they could not use the licence plate as identification.
or
2. If 723 was released in the late 80s or early 90s, it may have been retro fitted with a key ignition for safety or security reasons. Maybe 723 was relegated to 'unit/barrack hack' and could only be used by signing it in and out. This would prevent an 'old' vehicle from venturing onto 'modern' streets.
These are the only logical conclusions I can come to. There may be others that members could post up.
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Hi Tommy
Both vehicles came to me from the same eco farm via a 3rd party and I then offered 372 to Numpty who picked it up before I had taken delivery of mine. I have not had access to the eco farm location or information but did ask about the missing fittings and aero screens without response.
There is evidence of 723 being in AusCam prior to disposal most particularly the Camouflage Brown and Camouflage green in the passengers footwell. Its not possible to determine which areas of black was original AusCam and what was the post service faux aboriginal rock art. However the presence of AusCam would make it late 1980s or early 1990s disposal.
I'll have t ask Perry about a key in 372.
(http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m2/Auntikinus/Army%20Land%20Rovers/RCL%20Carriers/112-723/DSCN0142-2.jpg)
Diana
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More photos of 111-578.
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More photos of 110-724 (SA2) in SVN prior to the removal of the 106mm RCL.
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Hi tommy, also of note is the mirror arms and the large storage bins at the back squaring off the rear cross member
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Hi tommy, also of note is the mirror arms and the large storage bins at the back squaring off the rear cross member
Hi Scott
Yes, this Gunbuggy does sport some strange mods. The bins have steel mesh to the bottom surface. Not sure what the bins hold. They appear too wide and too short for jerry cans.
Also of note are the two 50cal ammo cans sitting on the 106mm storage bins at the rear (LHS and RHS). These are permanent fixtures and are bolted down. Not a civilian mod as they can be seen on the Gunbuggy whilst in service.
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That seatbelt fitted to the doors was fitted by the current owner after he purchased it from the military, as was the fitting of the ex Ferret back seats. This vehicle, along with others was used in a promotional shoot carrying pretty little "Virgin girls" around the Sydney metropolitan area a number of years ago and these mods were fitted to satisfy NSW RTA worries.
Regards
Glen
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Wonder where they found them in Sydney ???. The Ferret back seats I mean.
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That seatbelt fitted to the doors was fitted by the current owner after he purchased it from the military, as was the fitting of the ex Ferret back seats. This vehicle, along with others was used in a promotional shoot carrying pretty little "Virgin girls" around the Sydney metropolitan area a number of years ago and these mods were fitted to satisfy NSW RTA worries.
Regards
Glen
Thanks for that info Glen. Any photos of the promotional shoot?
(I have removed my seatbelt and seat posts now that we know the correct reason why they were fitted)
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A couple more screen shots from AWM films.
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Some shots via Facebook.
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vietnam
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via 3 RAR.
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Some more photos :).
From here - http://www.cronullarslsubbranch.com.au/TIMOR%20PEACEKEEPERS%20SOLOMONS/tonysavino.html
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ARN 112-731 and ARN 112-734 were recently for sale. 734 is going to a buyer in Singleton. 731 is going to a buyer in Vic. Any in service photos welcomed.
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Hello Ryan, did you buy one of them?, if so I have a heap of pics of them when we found them on the property near Tamworth.
Regards
Justin.
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Pm'd Justin. Hope to have it Saturday.
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ARN 112-730. Via Malcolm Layt. 3RAR.
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ARN 112-733. Early 1980s, 3 RAR.
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ARN 112-723? Via 3RAR, Malcolm Layt.
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Have been informed by a member serving at the time that ARNs 112-371 and 112-259 were with 8/9RAR in 1978.
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112-733 still lives on as a complete unit in Victoria (with rifle) and was seen at Monbulk car show about 2 weekends ago.
Is on the REMLR page too and belongs to John B.
http://www.remlr.com/sheds/jbshed.html
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Great photo. Big crowd.
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Does anyone recognise this gunbuggy. I was going thru and old internet collection.
These photos date to about 1996 I think. Michael Leys. He had a few Land Rovers, lifelong Solihull fan. I searched Fbook. He was a geologist somewhere like Katoomba or Lithgow as I recall.
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This one was spotted in Muckleford way back in 2008.
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Is that John B's . He turned over many many stones looking for that 106.
I met Phil Lloyd (after many years) at Corowa. His gunbuggy has that steering wheel center/horn button cover with the digger's names scratched on the inside. I thought I had a photo of it but no.
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The G/buggy mentioned back in March 2018 by Carzee did belong to Michael Leys and I believe he was a Geologist, he named his buggy 'Thomas the Tank Chaser' i have no idea on it's whereabouts, as for JB's 106 he got that from John Belfield aka Melbourne tank museum cheers Dennis
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Does anyone recognise this gunbuggy. I was going thru and old internet collection.
These photos date to about 1996 I think. Michael Leys. He had a few Land Rovers, lifelong Solihull fan. I searched Fbook. He was a geologist somewhere like Katoomba or Lithgow as I recall.
Now that it’s had that strip screwed to the side after that paint job and crooked, one would think it would be easier to spot, even if only following a line of holes!
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Hello All,
Does anyone have a non photobucket ruined copy of the second pic in post 49, page 6 I think it was. The GB with 16 in the red triangle, It was thought to be 112724 or 734, I have access to 734 and it has all the features in the pic including the instruction plate over the LH glove box. 90% sure it is 734 but would love a bigger, clear version of it.
Also I seem to remember seeing a pic of a GB with two spare tyres on the front but have not been able to find it. Has anyone seen this pic.
Thanks in advance.
Regards
Justin
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Hello All, just bumping this up as I’ve not received any responses, someone must have a clear pic of it.
Regards
Justin
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Here ya go Justin. I just copied the link into my browser....
Cheers,
Pete
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Regarding the Micheal Leys converted gunbuggy, there was a SWB ex Army Land Rover destroyed by bushfire some years ago near Katoomba. I chased the wreck up but it has long ago been scrapped.
Might possibly be the same vehicle...
Cheers
Phill
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Awesome, Thanks heaps Pete.
Cheers
Justin.
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110506 110-506 ? Its the only gunbuggy I believe that fits - arn ending in 06, and both these pics and 506 feature round guards
James Lang posted these on facebook of his brother John Lang, 8/9 RAR