Registry of Ex Military Land Rovers
REMLR Technical => Bodywork & Painting => Topic started by: rednjoey on October 31, 2012, 03:53:42 PM
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Just went down to Protec Paints in Welshpool (WA) to purchase some Camoflage green and black in aerosol cans to do some touch ups on my 2A and was told NO! I CANNOT BUY ANY
Unless I have a DOD contract or Contract number I cannot purchase any Protec paints from the Military Range that have an NSN number on it. One excuse they gave me is because they are an anti I/R paint.
Curious to see if anyone else has had the same response.
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Bought some recently. October some time.
No problems.
Truth is they had none in stock and couldn't be bothered getting some in for you. Speak to the manager.
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I bought some last month, no issues shelf was full of the stuff.
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last time were at protec minto they sold us camo green but would not sell desert sand for the reason they gave you seems strage though :(
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Could be a IR issue, they get funny about things over here,unlike the mother land..
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They did have plenty in stock because the young bloke bought my order out before the boss lady said no, they couldn't sell it to me without a concrator number blah blah blah.
I'm going to ring Protec again tomorrow and clarify this ruling and then ring head office and find out if its bulldust or not. Its possible it was something they did months ago and then changed their mind.
Everyone tells me WA stands for 'wait awhile'
You blokes on the East coast might have to buy up big and sell it on a REMLR black market or something.
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I wouldn't spend too much money on the aerosol cans, as they for some reason lose the ability to spray after a while. I have 2 almost full ones in the shed, you can shake rattle n roll them all you like but nothing comes out.
As for the IR ?? reason I wouldn't know but it sounds a bit over the top, but I suppose you are on the right track, speak to someone further up the food chain than the woman at the retail outlet, cheers Dennis
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The way the fellow at minto explained was that protec would sell but someone in defence had put ir paint on a list not to be sold to the public, bet it was a civilian trying to make his job look important :(
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Wouldn't be the first time defence had vetoed the sale of something to the public.
But why would the IR properties of the paint be of use to anybody outside a warzone?
Be interested to hear what protec has to say though.....
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The IFR Paint application would have little or no use in a civilian world, even if you wanted to camouflage your vehicle, someone would require IFR optical equipment to find you.
Plus each IFR paint type is designed for a specific natural surrounding, of course thats not an issue for the civilian world. The question would be is the pigment that they use classified?
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HI,
bought 6 x cans camo green today with no worries at all, $12.50 each.
Regards
Scott
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Rub it in you pack of buggers,
I'll just sit here in silence and not ask any questions of Protec's idiotic and inconsistent policies so it doesn't jepordise your purchasing. :(
Maybe I'll find a nice pinky blue colour to paint my 2A and put REMLR stickers all over it since I can't buy Olive Drab.
My daughter has a purple fairy dress, I'll borrow that to wear when I'm driving it.
When I drive it in the Mardi Gras parade, :-*
I'll tell everyone I see that you are all my friends.... ;)
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Rub it in you pack of buggers,
I'll just sit here in silence and not ask any questions of Protec's idiotic and inconsistent policies so it doesn't jepordise your purchasing. :(
Maybe I'll find a nice pinky blue colour to paint my 2A and put REMLR stickers all over it since I can't buy Olive Drab.
My daughter has a purple fairy dress, I'll borrow that to wear when I'm driving it.
When I drive it in the Mardi Gras parade, :-*
I'll tell everyone I see that you are all my friends.... ;)
Ohh noo.... not AGAIN!
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Rub it in you pack of buggers,
I'll just sit here in silence and not ask any questions of Protec's idiotic and inconsistent policies so it doesn't jepordise your purchasing. :(
Maybe I'll find a nice pinky blue colour to paint my 2A and put REMLR stickers all over it since I can't buy Olive Drab.
My daughter has a purple fairy dress, I'll borrow that to wear when I'm driving it.
When I drive it in the Mardi Gras parade, :-*
I'll tell everyone I see that you are all my friends.... ;)
Hi,
Would you like me to buy you some and send over to you, don't think aerosol cans can go in Aust Post but a 4lt tin can.
Let me know
Cheers
Scott
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Hugo boss, that's a new one, so he was a nazi supporter.
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Did they apologies for making lots of money I wonder.
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The Germans had the best uniforms of WWII.
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Nothing wrong with Opel.
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Did GM ownership of Opel come before or after the war :) If it was before the war the conspiracy theorists will have a field day
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oh just what the conspiracy buffs were looking for :(
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opel
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OOooooh...... well then. That just proves it doesn't it.
Did we ever solve the paint question. I think I lost the plot somewhere along the way.
Greg Mac.
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From what I can gather it depends on what colour you want and who you talk too at protec, minto sold us cam green but would not supply desert sand that was last year :( Some wally in canberra ticks a box and suddenly the paint is on a controlled list >:(
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I'm sure they will mix a 4litre tin but I bet they wont do spray cans...
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You can get paint put into spray cans but it works out a lot more costly...about $20 per can
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Hi, obviously there isa bit of descrepency around the country, I still have full access to green, brown and black in 4lt, 1lt and spray cans from Protec.
Confused?
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I had no trouble in purchasing this just yesterday
http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu319/DJM110/new/IMG_0962.jpg
cheers Dennis
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I think the problem being is...
WA stands for 'Wait Awhile'
This is possibly a directive from the time of the second Gulf War which has just filtered through over here.
I will send a letter of complaint to the Prime Minister John Howard.
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I personally have had no trouble buying Protec in the past, from a supplier in Wollongong, however, I am not using it in future projects as it is very porous and not very durable and it is very soft. I'll give it that it's cheap. I have switched to automotive enamel which is much harder once dry.
Now, about getting the colour you want: ;)
I learned this from a Jeep person who wanted Light Stone colour for his Jeep. He said, he went down to the local toy shop and bought a tin of modeler's paint. You know the type (Tamaya, airfix etc) He painted this onto a grey card and it was the colour he wanted. He then presented the painted card at the auto paint shop and got them to mix accordingly. Not 100% perfect but certainly a way to get a good match.
I use a place here in Nowra which is fairly antiquated, but they can kind of mix what I want. Being automotive enamel its a bit more (thrice) more expensive but a lot better paint to spray and harder as well as less porous. And it does not break down in fuel.
I'm not about to respray 112-464 again. I used 12 litres of primer,Two litres of black enamel, about 12 and a half litres top coat of Protec on it. .... Much more than I thought!
Be aware that how you paint will determine the flatness of the 'drab' so to speak. If you lay the paint on heavy you will get a shinier coat than a quick light coat. Though doing light coats you run the risk of making the paint so than that it provides little protection against corrosion. :-[
Ian
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Is there a part number or reference for Protec lusterless OD? I rang Adelaide today and the guy had no idea what I wanted!!!
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G'day matey, it's all in the Remlr website files under Restoration info. (Colour schemes)
Tried to copy and paste but mucked it up
Regards, Greg Mac.
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doh!!!!!
Danke.
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Its hard for them, its now called camouflage green not OD ;D
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Protec PTY LTD
At some point around 2000 ANZOL (the original paint supplier) was sold to an American company, and as a result when the contract was up for renewal. The Department of Defence awarded the contract to PROTEC PTY LTD which is a South Australian based company. This has many benefits as their are suppliers in most states and the paint is an Enamel making it easy to use. The paint is a standard colour, so if the store does not have the correct colour, it can simply be ordered in. It is available to anybody, and the Camouflage green is the correct colour for all green vehicles post 1967, and is the same colour used in the Auscam scheme. The paint however is in the protective, not automotive range of paints.
Below is an excerpt from the paint's description.
342 CAMOUFLAGE ENAMEL is a low gloss (lusterless), heat and petrol resistant alkyd finishing enamel with specified infrared reflectance (IRR) disruptive pattern (DPP) system.
Approved to APAS – 0165/1
PROTEC PTY. LTD.
Head office: 97-105 Bedford St, Gillman, S.A. 5013
Tel: 08 8447 6311 -- Fax: 08 5447 6692
Available in 20L, 4L, 1L containers.
COLOURS: (prices are for 4 litre quantities, as at late 2008)(We understand a price increase occurred in late 2010 as well)
342-1166 - Camouflage Green ------$49.91 +GST
342-5265 - Camouflage Tan (Brown) ------$44.37 +GST
342-7165 - Camouflage Black -------$44.37 +GST
342-5726 - Camouflage Light Tan
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How does the enamel go over old OD ?
Have to do 2 vehicles and wonder if it requires a complete rub back ?
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When i first did mine i rubbed back lighty and took all the loose paint off then sprayed over what was left no problems it sticks to the old OD well :)
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I sprayed a Mini K once (about 86 - and once was enough) and it had layers of old paint and dent repairs. To use acrylic I had to put on a single coat of spray sealer first. Worked well, no reactions.
...so, maybe look into sealer and save a lot of sanding. I mean, sand for effect as usual but then seal, because its always a bit of paint in a edge corner or under a bracket washer that reacts and bubbles up with your thinners or whatever 12 weeks later. It ruins your day.
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Thanks BOOGER and CARZEE
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I think the problem being is...
WA stands for 'Wait Awhile'
This is possibly a directive from the time of the second Gulf War which has just filtered through over here.
I will send a letter of complaint to the Prime Minister John Howard.
Hi rednjoey
I had a similar problem late last year trying to source this paint from protec in Welshpool. I too got the same speech.
Anyhow there is a distributor in wangara called huecoat paint 94099948 that asked no questions with my Order for a 4 litre tin and a couple of spray cans. Same price too. Hope this helps
Good luck
Regards
Andrew
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Thanks Ron
Thats the best news I've heard since I started this thread.
I will check them out next week
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Thanks Diana
I won't be any where near Sydney in the near future, I have a 4 litre tin but the spray cans are just the berries for doing the small fiddly jobs. I am definitely checking out the Wangara paint shop. Its not that far from home. Fingers crossed.
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The dilemma is over...
I dropped into Huecoat paints yesterday and picked up some green in aerosol cans, no questions asked.
Thanks to 61Ron for the heads up.
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Went to my local last week, (Bayswater Vic)
no issues selling it, had to be ordered in though.
4l cans for $68
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On my 110 Perentie, there is a yellow sticker on the RHS of the dash which says "Warning - Painted With IRR Polyurethane Paint".
Is this different to the Protec paints listed previously in this thread? They seem to be an enamel base, rather than polyurethane??
Why the 'Warning' sticker?
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Yep different paint but the colours are the same. The warning is because the poly paint is dangerous if the dust was inhaled when sanded etc
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The sticker refers to the original all-over Olive Drab green paint scheme that still remains beneath the current 3 colour cam scheme. In the engine bay, you will see a metallic sticker on the firewall "This vehicle is finished in Anzol Paints...".
The original paint was a 2 pack paint, but not your regular 2 pack. It was a type called an Aliphatic Isocyanate. During application, it can cause skin and respiratory reactions, with long exposure resulting in chronic impairment. Dust from cured paint can also induce similar symptoms, but to a lesser degree. But,... it was a very high performing, durable surface coating! :)
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Thanks for the warning chaps!
It is important for all of us to note that any dust inhaled into a lung is hazardous including; wood; mineral; metal; fungal; plant; plastic, etc.
Always wear a quality respirator, or particulate mask,
Cheers Charlie
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The sticker refers to the original all-over Olive Drab green paint scheme that still remains beneath the current 3 colour cam scheme. In the engine bay, you will see a metallic sticker on the firewall "This vehicle is finished in Anzol Paints...".
The original paint was a 2 pack paint, but not your regular 2 pack. It was a type called an Aliphatic Isocyanate. During application, it can cause skin and respiratory reactions, with long exposure resulting in chronic impairment. Dust from cured paint can also induce similar symptoms, but to a lesser degree. But,... it was a very high performing, durable surface coating! :)
I was under the impression that the isocyanates were given off in the reaction between the paint and the hardener/reducer the isocyanates are not a residual problem in the paint remaining on the vehicle or when it is removed by mechanical means.
Anzol were not selling the paint to the public, but Protec were selling their version which has similar problems if you use the reducers but not if you use other thinners.
Still not good to breathe in any paint particulate matter. In NSW isocyanate releasing paints are to be applied inside a painting booth and the operators have to use an air fed respirator mask.
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There is an EMEI about precautions to be taken with the original paint. Does REMLR not have it ?
Pete
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There is also an MSDS from Anzol, and later reissued by Valspar regarding the 450-xxxx paints. The MSDS for the Protec paint is currently available on their website.
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I was under the impression that ........Anzol were not selling the paint to the public, .....
They certainly did, I bought plenty both from them and again later when they were taken over by Valspar.
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The sticker refers to the original all-over Olive Drab green paint scheme that still remains beneath the current 3 colour cam scheme. In the engine bay, you will see a metallic sticker on the firewall "This vehicle is finished in Anzol Paints...".
The original paint was a 2 pack paint, but not your regular 2 pack. It was a type called an Aliphatic Isocyanate. During application, it can cause skin and respiratory reactions, with long exposure resulting in chronic impairment. Dust from cured paint can also induce similar symptoms, but to a lesser degree. But,... it was a very high performing, durable surface coating! :)
I was under the impression that the isocyanates were given off in the reaction between the paint and the hardener/reducer the isocyanates are not a residual problem in the paint remaining on the vehicle or when it is removed by mechanical means.
Anzol were not selling the paint to the public, but Protec were selling their version which has similar problems if you use the reducers but not if you use other thinners.
Still not good to breathe in any paint particulate matter. In NSW isocyanate releasing paints are to be applied inside a painting booth and the operators have to use an air fed respirator mask.
Hi to All
The isocyanates are very harmfull when using you should use a full face mask or an air supplied mask as well as chemical proof gloves and tyvec overalls. They are absorbed through your skin and through your eyes due to the moisture. The problem is not with the paint it is the hardener which contains the isocyanates. Enamel add which speeds up the drying of enamels and makes them harder, also contains isocyanates so these need to be used with caution as well. My advise is do not use these paints if you do not understand them and what they can do. I have regular blood tests for isocyanates and chromates due to the fact I work with these products painting aircraft.
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I'm still a little confused about the green colours.
My 110 firewall and interior, seat box etc is painted in a darker green to the green used on the exterior of the vehicle which was resprayed in 2010. The base colour on the vehicle exterior is light tan, with green and black overpaint. Is the Protec paint the later lighter green and the Anzol the darker green (polyurethane)?
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The light green seen on lots of vehicles coming through AFM IS NOT the camouflage green supplied by Protec. Don't know whos paint it is though.
The Protec and original Anzol are very similar colours.
Dinty's ambulance is done in Protec Camouflage Green
(http://remlr.com/photos/pics2/dm109_amb9.jpg)
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Thanks Diana - that clears it up for me.
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Link to spec sheet:
http://www.apas.gov.au/PDFs/0165.pdf (http://www.apas.gov.au/PDFs/0165.pdf)
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I heard a similar story but when I contacted Protec they said it is only the Anti-IR paint that is restricted.
Normal 342 is available over the counter.
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Just bought a 4ltr can($52.20) & 2 spray cans($11.50ech, 342-1166 Alkyd Enamel camouflage green) on Friday 13 Sept from the Protec dealers in Invermay, Tasmania,
was told by them they cannot sell to the public the 2 pack Anti -IR version, only alowed to supply to the Army,
the owner of the shop was surprised ,as he is willing to sell it, but was told by Protec not to sell to the public.
I commeted to the owner,
" Is the Millitary scared we were going to drive our vintage Land Rover's at speed under the Radar & crash into something Important!"
He just shruged his Shoulders.
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not to sell to the public
Or it could be to prevent someone in the public from sending the paint to a non-allied laboratory, find out the special qualities, and mimic it for their own army / develop sighting systems that detect the anti-ir properties/patterns and thus making it no longer unique or useful?
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My 02c (which of course rounds down to 0c)
All arguments bar the OHS issues are laughable.
Anyone with the capability to be a threat have better products already.
NearIRR paint on a landy is a joke.
When in use, they leak IR like a seive, when parked tactically, they ougt to be cam-netted. This does a much better job of scattering the signature and preventing the vehicles from becoming a heat sink and then radiating back.
IIRC, we were told not to iron our, then new, AusCam DPCUsas they were treated with clorform(?) to reduce the IR. Was gone after 5 washes, so wtf?
It is the same logic as having 'Restricted' on the pages in the Army Catering recipe books. Not exactly vital to the security of the nation, but it is just what we do. LOL
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The comment re the DPCUs was a laugh.
One time going to an Ex at SWBTA near Rocky there was a lot of Ross River Fever infections in town.
A week before going we had to dip our DPCUs in a No.5 Trailer full of Insectercide at the Barracks and then drip dry them.
Never caught Ross River till about five ago so must have worked (or was it delayed reaction)
Still picked up lots of ticks though. In order of rank of course 'cause the Occifers got a lot more.
Greg Mac.
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Yeah, we used to soak our greens / cams in peregrine all the time especially prior to a trip to Tully.
Gotta be good for ya.
Mick
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MMMM..military chemicals,got love them.Gamiln is one disscused on RAEME website.That red herring asside I hope to be painting my chassis soon,sandblasting ready to go.
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I just bought 2 tins each of camo black, brown and green at protec in Welshpool WA without comment so they must have had a change of heart.
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....It is the same logic as having 'Restricted' on the pages in the Army Catering recipe books....
I don't think they read the recipes anyway. Or even can read.
AFAIK their cooking timer is still the on the ceiling; the smoke detector.
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Anyone in Canberra got a can of Protec green or drab? Do we have to get it from Sydney?
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You have got a can of 'Drab' cheers Dennis
ps I got mine from a business in Newcastle (Newcastle auto abrasives)
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"...a lil' drab'll do ya"
Its to paint a remlr sign for the expo 21sept.
You going?