Registry of Ex Military Land Rovers
REMLR Technical => Mechanical => Topic started by: alvin on April 16, 2016, 05:34:18 PM
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I've had a bit of a look around and Googled the question, but nothings come up, so... a question here for some clever owners of the Perentie.
I've got an FFR and love it and enjoy the Kordux soft top, but... it's not safe to leave anything in the car if I'm out and about, or end up traveling OZ seriously.
So, any thoughts, ideas or pointers out there on how I can keep my soft top but possibly also put a security cage under it to keep my personal belongings safe and secure?
I know we're not meant to drill or weld the ROPS, so I'm just wondering if someone else has worked this problem out already and consequently saved me the effort of re-inventing the wheel.
Thanks in advance, Alvin
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It was a common in-service mod in Signal units to place mesh between the ROPS/bows and the canvas. As it wasn't structural, I think it was held in place with just pull ties. It didn't cover the tailgate area though.
From a distant memory the mesh wire was about 4 or 5 mm thick and in 10 or 15 cm squares.
I have a sneaking suspicion the mod started to dissapear as a result of MAS visits to units.....
Cheers,
Pete
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Could I have a translation of MAS? Back in the Vietnam era we had visits from the RAEME inspection team which we christened the RAEME PROVOS. They did tend to be party poopers. They nailed us for a tyre which was purchased in PNG to replace one that was damaged on an exercise. "Get rid of that Civvy tyre." It was not army issue non directional lug.
Geoff.
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Maintenance Advisory Service (MAS) which indeed was a RAEME technical inspection/audit team. Subject matter experts from other Corps did accompany them as needed though.
Cheers,
Pete
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Thanks Pete. I always remember that on the advice of our CQMS who was our boss in the small unit that I was in we were always nice to them including providing transport to and from home which in this case was Holsworthy village. We were in Ingleburn. No point annoying them as we could not win.
Geoff.
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So during your travels around Oz you call in at Cairns and want to spend all day diving out on the reef. Coming back well after dark.
Hmmm. Could be robbed of your gps or engel. What to do?
You could fit some mesh to the canopy frame, all around, using metal cable ties. Search feebay for muffler repair ties.
You could try parking in a surveilled spot.
You could set up your own surveilance using a wildlife camera.
You could ask a local REMLR member for a safe spot.
I think you'd find a way round the problem.
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I'm at a loss to understand the point of your post. A legit question was asked and real life experience shared.... yet, once again, a strange sarcastic response comes from you.... a bit late in the evening for you Ross ?
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Theres no sarcastic content. Not meant to be.
Re-read the OP. You'll see a point or two in my post. There are ways to do the cage. Check. There are some suggested alternatives. Check. He's not re-inventing the wheel. He's got a legit anxiety, and in some places, very legit. This topic is right up my street since i have an FFR. This topic is up my street since i am lapping Oz soon as well. I suggested the ways i will tackle my anxieties at certain places. GPS and Hema rigs are targets. Engels are targets. I think you jumped to a conclusion. Pls delete yr post so i can delete this one and we'll laugh about it later. Its not a good look for the forum. If i could pm this i would but i'm on my little phone.
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I think some mesh panels would flat pack on the roof rack just fine. When you are in a situation such as a day trip whale watching or whatever you could set up the panels with metal cable ties. I already have a few packets of the black ones for muffler repairs sold on feebay. You need cheap tin snips to trim them.
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Hi Alvin this is what I did for mine
http://remlr.com/forum/index.php?topic=2092.30 (http://remlr.com/forum/index.php?topic=2092.30)
Cheers
Rod
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Morning all,
Well thanks for all the ideas and suggestions so far and yeah... I must admit, I just happened to flick through this forum before hitting the sack and Carzee, I wondered at first where you were coming from.
I thought either being sarcastic, or hopefully/possibly a very dry sense of humour, so I thought the same as AGAS 5 at first, but ok... thanks, I get it and all ideas are taken with respect.
In my case, I've traveled reasonably extensively and grew up in Melb/Syd and although living down here in Tas for some time, I'm very aware of how little it takes these days for some a#$@hole to just take something from you because they can.
I originally wanted a hard top, but saw they were not only hard to get, but expensive to, so having an amateur licence the FFR seemed the way to go and I really love the vehicle, it's just fun to drive, but, I want security.
Even going into town to do shopping I normally carry and expensive camera and pro lenses all the time, but at the moment I can't/won't do that until I can feel it's safe to leave the car unattended. Even having something like your coat nicked would really tick me off.
So, ok and great work Rod, what a lovely job you've done and with all the other stuff too!
I'm thinking down this path then...
- A series of panels, not unlike Rod's setup that are basically modular in construction, so mirror image on the sides, roof, etc
- A material that's strongish and would deter only someone who comes with proper cutting equipment
- Most importantly apart from strong, it has to be light! Maybe something in a security door mesh/alloy, or whatever, etc
- And apart form the other suggestions like metal straps/cable ties, might there be something more elegant out there? I'm fine on Rods welded tabs, but just wonder if it can be done another way
Right that's about it, and also wonder if anyone has any thoughts also of maybe doing this in the drivers cabin area. In my case I would have some electronic gear up front that would be a pain to have to remove every time you pull up somewhere, so other than door locks, could the drivers area be possibly secured too?
Alvin (;->
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Hi Alvin
Another idea that would not as heavy as mesh would be to use polycarbonate sheet it is very strong bullet proof in fact, good luck trying to smash trough it. I can be easily formed & bent. Anything you do will only keep out the honest thief if you want a super secure vehicle a PERENTIE is not the right vehicle.
Cheers
Rod
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Sarcasm does have an icon: ::) as does taking the p : ::)
Insults and personal attacks are definitely a no no: we have the PM function for that.
I have a battery switch for everyday parking and a proper "club" for long parking.
If i go bushwalking and leave the truck all day I have a wildlife camera cable tied to a tree: perhaps I'll get a face or a number plate if its triggered. These things are good insurance for $69.
I have looked at bunnings for mesh. I expect the aluminium type are easy to 'trim to shape' to fit on the inside of the canopy. Cable ties are a quick set up, quick removable option. It would slow down the bad guy looking for something to takeaway.
I have become expert at vacking out smashed glass from family cars and fitting door windows, even electric ones. Barina, Jazz, falcon (3), commydore. Ipads, gps, toolsets and handbags are the targets so far, assuming all modern civvy vehicles like Agas' have immobilizers.
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Thanks Rod,
Yes, good suggestion re the polycarbonate and worth a look. I've had stuff heat molded years ago in ordinary plastic, so just a question, how stable is polycarbonate under a hot canvas in 47 deg temp?
And fully understand about keeping honest people out... ha. I just want to make it difficult plus with a few surprises so they consider the hassles out weigh the rewards and move on if you know what I mean.
Regards, Alvin
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Thanks Carzee,
Yes, battery/engine isolaters and other stuff is the way to go and I would employ a mixed bag if traveling interstate.
And yes, cheap surveillance @ $69.
I'm going to talk to a couple of fabricating places in town and just see the possibilities and economics of using some sort of mesh, but thought I should look for some inspiration here first (;->
Understand your making the point that anything in the front is going to get taken via the glass whether it's 'secure' or not, is that correct?
Yes, agree, but again, just wanted to make it more difficult.
I might need to set up a lock box to just drop small stuff into in the front when leaving the vehicle.
Regards, Alvin
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When I owned my Series 3 FFR Military Police Land Rover, it had the 1" steel mesh welded to the canopy frame on the sides and the top, as well as at the front (similar to the cargo barrier, and at the rear. And the raer had a lockable door on it, also covered in 1" steel mesh. When I put a padlock on the back gate, NOTHING would have been able to get into it!
The army then covered the top section of mesh with large sheets of corflute so the soft top would not rub on the mesh.
I found it worked really well for security.
The photos attached show some of the detail, but when I had it, I never thought to take detailed photos of it!!!
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Theres no sarcastic content. Not meant to be.
Re-read the OP. You'll see a point or two in my post. There are ways to do the cage. Check. There are some suggested alternatives. Check. He's not re-inventing the wheel. He's got a legit anxiety, and in some places, very legit. This topic is right up my street since i have an FFR. This topic is up my street since i am lapping Oz soon as well. I suggested the ways i will tackle my anxieties at certain places. GPS and Hema rigs are targets. Engels are targets. I think you jumped to a conclusion. Pls delete yr post so i can delete this one and we'll laugh about it later. Its not a good look for the forum. If i could pm this i would but i'm on my little phone.
Members of this forum should be free to post with out ridicule. I am not the only one who thought that of your post. It was pointless and did contribute. perhaps you need to learn to PM such posts so as to not publicly ridicule the forum members.
No point in coming back at a later stage and saying the you meant this & that or it would of been explained with an emoticon :o. I think you should have the courage to delete your original post and apologies.
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Theres no sarcastic content. Not meant to be.
Re-read the OP. You'll see a point or two in my post. There are ways to do the cage. Check. There are some suggested alternatives. Check. He's not re-inventing the wheel. He's got a legit anxiety, and in some places, very legit. This topic is right up my street since i have an FFR. This topic is up my street since i am lapping Oz soon as well. I suggested the ways i will tackle my anxieties at certain places. GPS and Hema rigs are targets. Engels are targets. I think you jumped to a conclusion. Pls delete yr post so i can delete this one and we'll laugh about it later. Its not a good look for the forum. If i could pm this i would but i'm on my little phone.
Members of this forum should be free to post with out ridicule. I am not the only one who thought that of your post. It was pointless and did contribute. perhaps you need to learn to PM such posts so as to not publicly ridicule the forum members.
No point in coming back at a later stage and saying the you meant this & that or it would of been explained with an emoticon :o. I think you should have the courage to delete your original post and apologies.
WTF. No excuses. You were an admin. and to deal with the same attitude. You understand the rules. There was another occasion where you needed reminding about PMs and I said nothing. My mistake.
PM incoming.
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Hey guys, please don't escalate!
I get it and mistake are easy to make on all sides, particularly with humour or phrasing, so don't butt heads over this, kiss and make up, we all get it wrong sometimes (;->
Alvin
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Thanks for sharing Aussie Jeepster!
Yes, well I was thinking of something similar at the back and looks like you did a great job there.
My only concern (and it's naive as I'm just learning) but I thought (having seen the sign inside the car) that it's 'verboten' to drill or weld to the existing ROPS???
But what you've done looks very good and it's sort of what I would like to do.
Regards, Alvin
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I can understand a little reluctance to modify the ROPS but you may be aware that some owners have already modified them or removed them completely - what you do about that is up to you.
You will note that there are some bolt attachments on the canopy frame which you could use with longer bolts without modifying the ROPS
While cable ties might hold it in place for planning purposes I wouldn't use them if I really wanted security.
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Thanks for sharing Aussie Jeepster!
Yes, well I was thinking of something similar at the back and looks like you did a great job there.
My only concern (and it's naive as I'm just learning) but I thought (having seen the sign inside the car) that it's 'verboten' to drill or weld to the existing ROPS???
But what you've done looks very good and it's sort of what I would like to do.
Regards, Alvin
Please don't think I did the work - the Army did it to make it a secure MP vehicle!
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Thanks Dugite and noted, I will certainly consider this. It's just that I thought I may have to (in this wonderful new age of litigation and correctness) follow the rules and NOT touch the bars at all! But all noted and will follow this up further with an engineer friend.
And all fine Aussie Jeepster, not a problem, I could only guess at your story, but it makes sense now and not a problem either way whether you might have done or 'they did', it's still a great job, I just wasn't sure of the legals, as explained above, but thanks for sharing (;->
Regards, Alvin
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SIII didnt have "ROPS", and TRF didn't appear til early 90's...so a lot of vehicles had modifications.
Nowadays unless its approved by OEM, directed in an EMEI, or approved via ECP equipment remains 'standard'.
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I'm thinking down this path then...
- A series of panels, not unlike Rod's setup that are basically modular in construction, so mirror image on the sides, roof, etc
- A material that's strongish and would deter only someone who comes with proper cutting equipment
- Most importantly apart from strong, it has to be light! Maybe something in a security door mesh/alloy, or whatever, etc
- And apart form the other suggestions like metal straps/cable ties, might there be something more elegant out there? I'm fine on Rods welded tabs, but just wonder if it can be done another way
Right that's about it, and also wonder if anyone has any thoughts also of maybe doing this in the drivers cabin area. In my case I would have some electronic gear up front that would be a pain to have to remove every time you pull up somewhere, so other than door locks, could the drivers area be possibly secured too?
Alvin (;->
Alucobond (http://"https://www.google.co.nz/?gws_rd=ssl#q=alucobond") sounds like what you need
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Hi BadCo,
Thanks for that, it looks quite interesting indeed from my short search so far.
Just one thing, after a quick Google as I wanted to understand it's qualities, I came up with this:
'Aluminum Composite Material (ACM) consists of two sheets of smooth .02" aluminum thermobonded to a polyethylene core in a continuous process.'
So, just wondering, it's great as a cover/facade, but being 20thou thick aluminum, wouldn't that make it easy to penetrate with something as simple as a sharp knife, or am I missing something here?
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The two layers bonded to the plastic middle make it pretty strong.
It has been used to make rear drawers and even some folk on facebook have used it to make a hard top roof. So for some sidewalls I imagine it would work a treat.
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Hi BadCo,
Well yes, that material does look very good, but I've managed to track down some promotional videos on YouTube and as impressive as it looks and I can see some great uses for it, I could also see that it would be no match for someone with a sharp object and some simple brute force.
It certainly has great capabilities and probably has good insulating properties as well, but I'm not convinced it's the right way to go in this application, but thank you very much for the info, it's certainly a product worth remembering for possibly other uses.
The other product I'm in the process of doing some research on is the Crimsafe mesh in the commercial grade.
The product looks very interesting. Light, tough, and if it's possible to bend the frame to suit the car's canopy shape, then this might be a goer. I'm presently waiting for some feedback from the company.
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Hi BadCo,
Well yes, that material does look very good, but I've managed to track down some promotional videos on YouTube and as impressive as it looks and I can see some great uses for it, I could also see that it would be no match for someone with a sharp object and some simple brute force.
It certainly has great capabilities and probably has good insulating properties as well, but I'm not convinced it's the right way to go in this application, but thank you very much for the info, it's certainly a product worth remembering for possibly other uses.
I don't think you would get through it with a Stanley knife ;)
I reckon aluminium sides on my hard top would be easy to get through with a hatchet and brute force or something similar.
Good luck with your other endeavors, keep us posted how you get on.