Registry of Ex Military Land Rovers
Land Rovers => Australian Series 2 & 2A => Topic started by: Carzee on May 03, 2013, 09:22:40 AM
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========================== should put research links at top I think ===================
ARN info: http://www.remlr.com/index_ARNs.html
AWM Diary Data build: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AirmtN4GydAxdDBBM2lFVHBONHpWajJNd2tPTThEZmc#gid=0
SVN Timeline: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AirmtN4GydAxdHRTX0pKMHRrVkR6Y3JRdnlRV0t0VkE&usp=drive_web#gid=0
Vehicle markings thread: http://remlr.com/forum/index.php?topic=114.0
SVN tac signs: http://remlr.com/forum/index.php?topic=985.0
SVN doc snips thread: http://remlr.com/forum/index.php?topic=904.0
SS AMF VOI doc: http://remlr.com/photos/ssshed/amf_voi
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I happened to see this article from the Sydney Morning Herald, 1987.
Hilda was in SVN during 65-66 at the R&C Villa Vung Tau (the first RC rep).
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-I_KW7CPLiEI/UYLvjXdi9VI/AAAAAAAADKI/UZET1BJdxXM/s1152/113710-red-cross.jpg)
also we have this one with 2RAR where 113710 is fitted as Convoy Escort with GPMG:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-huzQvlpMCr0/UYL06Etdp4I/AAAAAAAADLc/LDGIsArHViI/s512/113710-2rar.jpg)
(The colour 113710 photo was posted in the Tac sign thread http://remlr.com/forum/index.php?topic=985.0 by Aussie Jeepster.)
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Interesting to note that 113 710 belongs to HQAFV (401 - if my eyes don't deceive me) in the photograph dated 65-66) at the R&C centre but was transferred to 2 RAR in the later shot which is either 67-68 (1st tour) or 70-71 (2nd tour).
Even if it isn't 401 in the first picture it is pretty obvious that it had a unit / Corps change over during its stint in country.
Regards
Glen
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I just checked the ARN data and its a 6005M, disposal 3mar72 in Aust. A Base Workshops write off perhaps because thats in the period when AFV pulled out -RTA.
I didn't notice its a shorty. I must be tired.
A shorty with a GPMG like a Gunbuggy convoy escort. Unusual.
Also, ZD do recognise that square canvas bag behind the pedestal next to the bulkhead? Post? HQ maps?
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-DGb9NYLdILg/UYMYBIx5CpI/AAAAAAAADL4/GlH5TK0n-44/s512/113710-2rar-closecrop.jpg)
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I know how dangerous it is to make assumptions, but I would say that the shot in question shows a GS being used as a Command Reconnaissance.
Quite possibly an observer heading out to do a recce for mortar placements or as a forward observation post heading out to read fall of shots.
I make this assumption because of the SM5 (third) tac sign signifying Mortar Platoon Support Company, the fact that there are only two bods in the vehicle (the third is probably drawing M60 ammo from the Q), a radio, a folding chair, what looks like a stretcher (or are those the legs of a theodolite?) and probably a bag of maps, but no sign of any mortars.
Regards
Glen
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Thx Glen, thats a good result. An uncommon variant for sure.
I think your idea of the one of the items loaded being a set of legs for the theodite may be off. They are usually chest high. (ok in the 109in tub laying down, but not a 88in tub).
Next, a 103 Sigs Landy getting a wash. From their assn archive. They date it as Nov '66. According to our reference docs ("Allotment For Special Duty" Orders) the 103 were in theatre from april 66 to july 67.
The unit tac is 401 (HQ) on Sigs colours and the formation is 1 Pentropic.
The ARN -I think- is 111-498.
Do I have a seconder?
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-DcRzvUGbZ1Q/UYNlsuFkqYI/AAAAAAAADM0/RvnBm0OBsdM/s576/111498-103Sigs_11-1_1966.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-AKG6XuduWQg/UYOTB6exe9I/AAAAAAAADN0/3vkSZEKUJ7Q/s244/111498-103Sigs_11-1_1966-c.jpg)
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mm, too obscured for me to say anything definitive IMHO
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S2 GS and has bonnet catches as well.
Regards
Glen
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ARN BBB Series 2 lists
111098 as a 6005 CR. disp 11.11.65
111198 as a 6005 CR. disp 18.12.70
111298 as a 6006. disp 14.3.80
111398 as a 6006. disp 30.1.69
111498 as a 6006. It is noted in SVN Diary data. disp 3.10.69
111598 as a 6005 CR PNG ref. disp 18.1.66
111698 as a 6005 CR. disp 17.8.66
111798 as a 6005A w stretcher. disp 8.5.70
111898 as a 6028 but the Diary Data notes say it was on 17Const Sqn est. list during jun66 to may68 period. disp 3.10.69
111998 as a 6028G. It is noted in SVN Diary Data. BER. disp 2.6.69
Whats the fitting on top of the guard?
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-0Y7Nem64-UM/UYOL-nhjCVI/AAAAAAAADNQ/6q88MTKnzUU/s640/111498-103Sigs_11-1_1966-b.jpg)
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The fitting on the guard is the coax plug stowage post.
The coax is disconnected from the post, cable moved out of the way and then the ATU box mounted to the guard and the coax connected to the ATU.
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The shipping bars on the screen are interesting, reading 1309, and the colour bars seem to be brown grey brown. Doesn't seem to fit in with any of the codings I have seen but then again our colour bars were similar and I could never make any sense out of them either.
These colour bars were the precursor to today's Christmas Tree and were merely a Unit's "postal address" to put it simply, and usually scraped off the screen once the vehicle had been delivered.
111 398 was a FFW, as was 111 298. either of these seems to fit the Tac signs more aptly.
Regards
Glen
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The 2nd photo with the boy makes the rear canopy look like an 88in canopy. Confusing. If an 88 it could only be 111698 or 111798. Both were disposed 66 which fits the 103 Sigs' slot.
That plate 4th digit surely can only be a 2, a 4, a 6 or an 8.
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I reckon the coax lead points more to a 109.
Besides, that first canopy bow looks as though it has had a bit of a hiding.
Regards
Glen
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Was just about to say the same as Glen. AFAIK only the RAAF had 88" FFT.
The post/ATU configuration being Larkspur fittings making the vehicle earlier than generally accepted for the nomenclature FFR.
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With reference to the colour bars on the Sigs Landy in an above photograph I note that the colour bars are the same if not very similar to the ones with which 87 Transport vehicles and equipment were marked.
I had always understood that these colour bars translated into numbers as do the current Christmas trees, but apparently not.
The Sigs vehicle looks to be brown/grey/brown with an accompanying number of 1309, whereas 87 was brown /silver/ brown with an accompanying number of 1107.
I say silver because I remember painting all my gear with good old common silverfrost, but perhaps that was close enough to grey and easier to come across, hence its use.
If the colour sequence is the same in both cases then perhaps the colours signify a delivery point and only the numbers signify the unit.
The Corps were different so that is ruled out. Vung Tau as a destination was a common point though.
Someone will find an answer I am sure and enlighten me.
This photograph of a Unit Members steel trunk came to me following enquiries through our Unit Association and show the colour bars.
(http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/glenpats/IMG_0087_zps15994304.jpg)
Regards
Glen
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Now thats research. Excellent evidence.
Would this colour band scheme be something to do with Army Movement Orders in general or specific to do with that theatre?
Do we look for similar or the same colours idea in Malaya theatre and in the RAAF and RAN as well?
Just thinking aloud - where will a order be found to clear this up; it could solve a few puzzles that crop up.
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Scott sent me the link to the 4RAR Museum:
(http://www.4rarmuseum.com/Ferry%20Crossing%20Sungei%20Sarawak.jpg)
I think a photo search of the AWM On line would bring up similar.
But for orders - commander dairies for Borneo/Malaya:
This overview http://www.awm.gov.au/atwar/emergency.asp
links to same familiar minesite
http://www.awm.gov.au/collection/records/awm95/
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I found these photos taken during the Vietnam War.
All the Land Rovers on board HMAS Sydney appear to have the windscreen bars. Interestingly, some bars have been applied vertically and some horizontally.
There are different coloured bars:
Pink?, red, pink?
Lime green, white, lime green
Red, blue, red
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/WindscreenBar5_zpsdc236941.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/WindscreenBars4_zpscdfe6ac9.jpg)
This workshop retains it's windscreen bars. Yellow, brown?, yellow.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/WindscreenBars1_zps4be9f3ee.jpg)
Whereas this workshop has the bars painted on it's guard side panel. GS also has the same bars.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/File0249_zps0a35c6db.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/WindscreenBars2_zps05a3bc62.jpg)
This photo shows equipment unloaded from the Jeparit in 2AODs depot. Note the bars on the wooden crate. Black, red, black.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/WindscreenBars5_zpsd3b2a919.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/WindscreenBars42_zps3d0f9ca4.jpg)
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The three colour bar system & unit four-digit designator was for all Unit equipment and personal baggage, hence all items large and small were supposed to be marked in this way. Thus the box marked with the three colour bars.
Great images!
Mike C
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Thanks Mike. Those colour bars would be in orders, perhaps movement order SOPs -- ? -- are they somewhere in stack at the AWM or with the Navy records for those SVN cargo manifests (? perhaps listing vehicles transported and destination unit?)
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This photo's always been a tad mysterious:
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-hUd3jcARkKU/UYLvjfym10I/AAAAAAAADKE/xH7ZuF9xdX0/s567/114340-vietnam-eod.jpg)
Formation tac is 1ALSG. Unit tac is RAAOC under a 410 which is 709 Sigs.
At the same time its got a flashing beacon on the guard and signage for EOD: Explosive Ordnance Det./Depot/Disposal/Delivery (?something like that).
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Explosive Ordnance Disposal - its a 'priority' sign to ensure speedy access in an emergency (like when someone reports a bomb/dud/etc)
C4 was regularly used by US infantry in small chunks cut from the larger block as a heating fuel for rations: it burned far hotter than Hexamine, so the process was quicker. I suppose the practice caught on to the point where the powers that be objected. An infantry Coy would go through a lot of C4 on a patrol if used in place of hexamine on a regular basis.
Smoke Grenades were used to mark a spot on the ground, then the pilot would be zeroed to the enemy by radio directions, eg 'Confirm yellow... Yellow confirmed ...Roger Bushranger 24 ... place ordnance 200 plus of my smoke' etc
Mike C
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Thx Mike re the C4 and the EOD.
Re the photo,
the EOD tac is what I don't understand. Ordnance Corps ok, but the Sig det. ref?
Also, the EOD Landy is a 1967 manuf. and
Landy 3/4 ton GS 114-340 is not noted as "less doors, canopy, bows & tailgate" in the BBB...
Landy 3/4 ton GS 114-339 is noted as "less doors, canopy, bows & tailgate" in the BBB.
These two Landys make the case that the Landy entries in the BBB marked "less doors, canopy, bows & tailgate" were not the only ones to go on the VTF, although by '67 I had thought they all had those canopy parts removed as a default.
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The notations in the BBB are far from perfect, so I don't think this is sufficient proof on its own that complete Land Rovers were still being sent to SVN alongside the stripped version. Images taken aboard HMAS Sydney would be the best bet to resolve that question, but the image in question sure does make the case for both 'types' being shipped.
Yes, now you point it out: the 410 etc is a bit of a 'mish mash' from what we currently know. This deserves some digging....
The colour bar system was the continuation of what was used in WW2. Each unit had its own four (or, in WW2, up to 6) digit unit code assigned by HQ, and the colours for each numeral were a table published by HQ. While the colours were specified, the actual shade of a colour varied from application to application. Upon being signaled for embarkation, units simply equated the last two figures of their unit code with the three bars required, and painted these onto the equipment, baggage, etc. They were supposed to be removed once landed, but were often left in place. Placement was also specified (horizontal bars, number above, on the windscreen, left side for B Vehs), but was often not followed, with placement being almost at random. I have a list of the digit (0 to 9) and corresponding colour somewhere - give me time and I'll find it.
A book was released recently in the USA that 'decodes' the colour bar system used by US Forces on D Day. Surprise! It is the British Commonwealth system that had been in use since the beginning of the war 're-invented' by the US Army for the D-Day landings with some minor tweaking.
Tommy: nice shot taken from Sydney of Replenishment at Sea (RAS) operations: Sydney, then the Oiler (HMAS Supply?) then a Brit-designed escort - maybe Vampire, Vendetta, etc? You do pop up with some interesting images!
Mike C
OK: found it (the index must be better than I thought!)
1 = Red, Bright, GS
2= Blue, GS
3=Yellow
4=Green, Light, GS
5=Grey
6=Buff, GS
7=Red oxide of iron (which is dark red, I think)
8=Service Colour, GS (whatever that is!)
9= White
0=Brown, Dark, GS
Three bars are: last two digits of the unit serial number. The 'tens' appears twice, above and below the single digit, eg unit serial '6549' would have a three colour bar of
Green, Light GS (4)
over White (9)
over Green, Light GS (4).
Clear as mud, eh??
Mike C
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"Tommy: You do pop up with some interesting images!" - Mike C.
I'll toast that! And ZuluDelta (Glen H) probably has as many too. And there are others as well - we are grateful for sure.
In both the photos of the RAS, many of the Landys have ropes over the canopys.
?
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-MT4NXD8SFiA/UZAig85OkrI/AAAAAAAADUQ/yTG_qa1DTUg/s800/unk-windscreen-colour-bar-codes-sydney.jpg)
I've looked at them and I guess its either a safety measure in case of a typhoon or anti-pilfering.
Anyone else have a guess?
Off topic, but ...
Mike I notice the AWM collection search function throws up many references to their 8mm films or home movies of SVN theatre.
To your knowledge was there a digital transferal project put on the agenda. Perhaps AWM could have its own channel on Youtube or similar?
Have any been done or only the official PR stuff?
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Thanks carzee
The Land Rover is British MoD, did ours go over also or only the trucks?
Yes we had Landys there for FARELF in the mid sixties '64.'65.'66 but earlier on I think its possible we had some MOD gear on loan.
I think its a question for the 4RAR people. IMHO the whole campaign is not given much coverage; the bit on the AWM is about all I've seen to date.
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Carzee....
"Off topic, but ...
Mike I notice the AWM collection search function throws up many references to their 8mm films or home movies of SVN theatre.
To your knowledge was there a digital transferal project put on the agenda. Perhaps AWM could have its own channel on Youtube or similar?
Have any been done or only the official PR stuff?"
Short answer is I do not know: suggest you send a query to the Photo Film and Sound section Duty Curator at photographs@awm.gov.au
Mike C
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"Tommy: You do pop up with some interesting images!" - Mike C.
I'll toast that! And ZuluDelta (Glen H) probably has as many too. And there are others as well - we are grateful for sure.
In both the photos of the RAS, many of the Landys have ropes over the canopys.
?
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-MT4NXD8SFiA/UZAig85OkrI/AAAAAAAADUQ/yTG_qa1DTUg/s800/unk-windscreen-colour-bar-codes-sydney.jpg)
I've looked at them and I guess its either a safety measure in case of a typhoon or anti-pilfering.
Anyone else have a guess?
Off topic, but ...
Mike I notice the AWM collection search function throws up many references to their 8mm films or home movies of SVN theatre.
To your knowledge was there a digital transferal project put on the agenda. Perhaps AWM could have its own channel on Youtube or similar?
Have any been done or only the official PR stuff?
Hello All,
Hey Carzee, I would think the ropes are to prevent the canvas from becoming sails in the event of a stiff ocean breeze!, note the workshop canvas in the middle front of the pic is already suffering the normal gap between the concertiena (spelling!) and the over flap, it should be neatly tucked under but they never seem to stay there.
MC
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Note that one Land Rover has it's headlights covered as well. I would presume that all would have the same treatment.
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Why the headlight glass but not the windscreen glass?
Definitely some strange goings on for sea movement of vehicles (as mentioned before) the horn removed, the blinkers greased, etc.
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Why the headlight glass but not the windscreen glass?
Definitely some strange goings on for sea movement of vehicles (as mentioned before) the horn removed, the blinkers greased, etc.
Surely there would have been an official directive from the bosses upstairs in relation to these protective methods. All we need to do now is find the piece of paper they were written on.
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So far all we had found is that 2AOD reference re the Jeparit cargo:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-rZX6v9UuLhg/UUE9B8dLXKI/AAAAAAAAClE/68b1Mlp81p8/s720/2AOD-diary-vehicle-damage-in-transit-dec68.jpg)
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Just scanned a bunch of slides today for an ex SAS guy who was happy to share the vehicle photos.
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I'll get the attachment working soon!! :-\
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more
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more to come soon
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You will see an EOD Landy in this next bunch. Its interesting that the photo posted some posts back was done several years ago, from a totally different source, yet we see the smae Landy again!!!
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and the last lot.
Hope you enjoy them - I have no details on who or where, but some others might be able to make some connections.
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Thank you, wonderful. Any slides have a date stamp on them?
When I get home I will look at the big versions.
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Thank you, wonderful. Any slides have a date stamp on them?
When I get home I will look at the big versions.
No dates on these - they were mostly taken on 126 Instamatic Kodachromes which also tends to limit sharpness. I have done higher res scans but if you PM me with an email address, I can send the bigger scans, but most of these show the detail that is needed. I've done a little photoshop work on some of them to tweak them where I can.
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With a bit of information they would make an excellent set of photos on a page on REMLR showing life in SVN (If the owner permits it of course).
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I asked about putting up more pics with more of the SAS guys in them, but he got a bit twitchy about it due to the people they were training. What I haven't posted are some other more interesting images after some contacts. I think he just wants to stay out of it all! But I'll see what I can do.
They were definately an SAS unit as the badges on the uniforms (where you can see them) support it. I put in the AAT TV sign in the hope it might help with identifying the unit.
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The badges you can see are mostly those of the AATTV rather than the SAS.
The AATTV was the most highly decorated Australian unit in South Vietnam and consisted of usually Sgts, WOs and Officers who were selected from all different Corps and sent to Vietnam where they lived with, trained and fought with various South Vietnamese Army units (AARVN) throughout the country. These blokes were often out on their own with their Vietnamese speaking charges for months on end, often not seeing another "round eye" for the whole time. This Unit began its rotations from 1962, 4 years before Australia openly committed any (publicly acknowledged) troops to the war and 5 years before Australian troops went over as a self contained entity, and were disbanded in 1972.
Today we have another Training Team - AATT- situated and working in Iraq. Today we tend to call it "mentoring" as that apparently is a bit more upmarket term than "training".
A lot of those shots show landrovers with 3 RAR Tac signs which tends to date the shots to around 67-68, although the one of the convoy forming up at Vung Tau is of 1 Coy trucks so that brings it back to 66-67.
The Corporal with the SAS beret is snoozing on the back of a Mk3, so once again 66-67. I would assume going back to Nui Dat after either R&C or R&R.
In the shot of the bod looking over what could be a map outside the boozer(?) it looks like the Kingstrand hut in the background is still being erected (note the blokes on the roof), once again, early days.
The bloke in the Landrover with the giggle hat on (pic 2 post 33) is wearing the AATTV badge on his brassard and also a set of Paratroop wings that tend to point to him being a 3RAR member.
Interesting array of shots.
Regards
Glen
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Enjoying these on the big screen now. :)
I was only reading about the AATTV on the weekend. Serendipity.
The driver in 08270013 has a handgun on a hip holster perhaps...
(http://remlr.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1053.0;attach=1901;image)
On the left of 08270030 is a folding table, there are heavy duty (I currently have one holding up the salisbury diff/axles for repainting).
(http://remlr.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1053.0;attach=1919;image)
Re the markings on the Landys (see VOI), the formation tac sign is under the bridge weight disc up front and under the Land-Rover badge at the rear.
Re the earlier posting of the EOD Landy, the formation tac and the unit tac are swapped over - on the wrong sides.
Also the same error on 176-548 Landy in 08270011 and 176-669 Landy in 08270015... did those 3 Landys with that unit at that time have a prankster in their midst (and they thought they got away with it - no-one ever noticed).
(I think I may have just got my gold tabs as a REMLR Researcher)
ref
http://remlr.com/photos/ssshed/amf_voi/
http://remlr.com/photos/ssshed/amf_voi/man_annexes_131.jpg
http://remlr.com/photos/ssshed/amf_voi/man_annexes_131.jpg
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08270030 is a rare photo of a number 5 trailer fitted with a water bladder.
(http://remlr.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1053.0;attach=1919;image)
There are water tap outlets across the drawbar parrallel to the front face of the box.
Put that one on REMLR for sure.
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I spoke to a guy who collected these today and his best guess on the date is 66-68 - he will try and find out more for me. The rest of the slides have been put into a presentation for an SAS reunion in the near future.
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The bloke in the Landrover with the giggle hat on (pic 2 post 33) is wearing the AATTV badge on his brassard and also a set of Paratroop wings that tend to point to him being a 3RAR member.
Interesting array of shots.
Regards
Glen
Glen, those wings are the SASR variety.
3 RAR didn't assume the airborne capability until 1983 and shortly afterwards, gained approval to wear the maroon wings, originally sported by the WW2 Australian Parachute Battalion.
Jack
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Fair call. Really that makes more sense as to the timing of the shots as well.
I never realised the different colours existed. Our (RAASC) air dispatch bods wore the standard blue wings.
(http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/glenpats/030-10_zpsba24d579.jpg)
Regards
Glen
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With a bit of information they would make an excellent set of photos on a page on REMLR showing life in SVN (If the owner permits it of course).
They -and other photos contributed to the forum- could / should be archived by the AWM also.
If there are only vague memories of the when - where - who type facts that go along with the picture... well so be it.
I recently contacted the AWM and they gave me this info:
Duty Curator: Edwin Ride | Photographs
photographs@awm.gov.au | t 02 6243 4593
Australian War Memorial | GPO Box 345 Canberra ACT 2601
That email above is for emails with photos included up to a limit.
If the photo file is larger than 3megabytes, use this link: https://filetransfer.awm.gov.au/dropbox/photographs@awm.gov.au (https://filetransfer.awm.gov.au/dropbox/photographs@awm.gov.au)
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The Duty Curator in each curatorial section changes regularly on a rotational basis.
As I think SVN images still fall within the copyright period, they can only be contributed/accepted into the AWM collection from the original photographer, their heirs, or a person who has been legally assigned copyright.
And the AWM don't simply archive images: there is an ownership/granting of rights process in various forms. Check the copyright indicator on images for various 'types'.
Also, taking images into the collection and maintaining them is an expensive process, so curators tend to be pretty picky about what they can accept.
Mike C
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"...SVN images still fall in the copyright period..."
"Photographs, sound recordings, films, and anonymous/pseudonymous works are copyright for 70 years from their first publication." Thats the regs for Australia as a result of the 2006 Copyright Ammendment Act: http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/num_act/caa2006213/ (http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/num_act/caa2006213/)
If some new photos come to light such as happened on this forum lately, the copyright lasts for 70 years - 2083. So yeah, I can see how the AWM wouldn't archive them directly without due process and stat decs etc. Oh well.
Still an email may serve to make the curators aware of the existence of special photos.
ps I was recently in contact with the photo curator to correct a photo caption that attributed the photo as something to do with the Malayan campaign when it was actually a burial ceremony of 1RAR soldiers KIA in SVN, in the Ho Bo Woods action, 8 January 66.
http://www.awm.gov.au/collection/P02470.001 (http://www.awm.gov.au/collection/P02470.001)
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Here is one I got today - interesting position of the "Christmas Tree"!
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I think that is the forerunner to the xmas tree some veh got both the three bars and the 4 of the newer system
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Yes, it would appear to be a 'non-conforming' attempt at the three bar system, instructions for which state the bars to be horizontal with the Unit Serial Number in white numerals above the upper horizontal bar. Bars to be 8 inches long, 2 inches wide. The bars & number were supposed to be placed on the forward part of the vehicle, like the w/screen or forward body sides, and removed after dis-embarkation.
Mike C
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This is likely to be associated with the AATTV photos which I posted earlier - might explain the odd setup.
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Here is a 9RAR pic. The Footlocker has 3 vertical colour bars.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-MzlH3b0_2D0/UacBiqOl7jI/AAAAAAAADaU/AF76awUVqy4/s760/unk-9rar-camp-35Vietnam.jpg)
ps, the chair millionaire looks 'wrong', too civvy, but it is the same as seen in quantity amongst the crowd at Luscombe concert photos.
Perhaps they all came thru the ALSC canteen or PX.
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Probably purchased at shop13, Baria.
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Probably purchased at shop13, Baria.
Welcome to the forum. Sounds like you were there.
Its stupid trivia I know.
Google throws up one reference re the local shops.. and its a curio on the 104Sig archive
(http://www.au104.org/Photo3/images41-45/104Sigs_42-17.jpg)
I don't imagine the shop owner would've thought that it'd be in a virtual museum 40~50 years down the track.
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Yes, it would appear to be a 'non-conforming' attempt at the three bar system, instructions for which state the bars to be horizontal with the Unit Serial Number in white numerals above the upper horizontal bar. Bars to be 8 inches long, 2 inches wide. The bars & number were supposed to be placed on the forward part of the vehicle, like the w/screen or forward body sides, and removed after dis-embarkation.
Mike C
Here's a more normal example as seen on the HMAS Sydney pics, although the bars are not 2in wide. 145 Sigs 1966 Nui Dat Hill
(http://pronto.au104.org/145Sigs/145Sigs_images/145Sigs_214_Ned%20on%20Nui%20Dat%20Hill_1966_NT.jpg)
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from Middleton 2AOD (1ALSG) collection.
..this must be what is meant by the "VTF" annotation in the BBB..
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3574/3377851851_8c9fe4e4ed_o.jpg)
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More windscreen markings. This is 'Dozer' Dalton, 2AOD, on De Long Pier. Ship hull in bgd.
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3148/3077285742_ed1b7c65b5_o.jpg)
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:o What is this :o
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3263/5814954914_55e84f6670_o.jpg)
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Easy peasy. A green and white painted fence...... ;D ;D ;D
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Easy peasy. A green and white painted fence...... ;D ;D ;D
wrong Greg it's a No5 trailer without bow or canopy so must be Viet Nam, Lol.......
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from Middleton 2AOD (1ALSG) collection.
..this must be what is meant by the "VTF" annotation in the BBB..
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3574/3377851851_8c9fe4e4ed_o.jpg)
I beileve that these were from earlier vehicles removed in country, before they were removed prior to being sent to SVN (happy to be corrected though as I have not looked at the photos date).
The pink landy I think was a heavily modified one for launching boats at the beach and painted pink to match a citroen that the nurses had acquired to use. I believe the pink landy was also locally sourced, I have more photos of it somewhere.
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Back at the top we had the Red Cross lady in a remembrance news piece.
I think this is the lady, Hilda Zinner, without uniform, on the right in this SVN AWM photo.
The AWM caption - "First Red Cross girls in Vietnam 1966 to 1967".
(http://static.awm.gov.au/collection/images/screen/P04669.911.JPG)
Could we move this topic to the Series 2 Research section please?
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Was just watching the TV show "The Time of My Life" and in a segment about Little Pattie's time in Vietnam they showed a very short clip of this landie driving past - another in the background but couldn't see much of it.
My TV constantly records so I was able to play it back and record it to my camera - sorry about the quality.
The ARN is 113-183
(http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e334/gazzz21/Forum%20Posts%20Album/P1250250_zpsf68156d8.jpg) (http://s42.photobucket.com/user/gazzz21/media/Forum%20Posts%20Album/P1250250_zpsf68156d8.jpg.html)
(http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e334/gazzz21/Forum%20Posts%20Album/P1250247_zps5aba4e7d.jpg) (http://s42.photobucket.com/user/gazzz21/media/Forum%20Posts%20Album/P1250247_zps5aba4e7d.jpg.html)
The short segment of video - click to watch
(http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e334/gazzz21/Forum%20Posts%20Album/th_P1250254_zps7b906425.jpg) (http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e334/gazzz21/Forum%20Posts%20Album/P1250254_zps7b906425.mp4)
Maybe of interest to someone.
Cheers
Garry
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Hi all, got this pic
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The AWM does have some new photos alright.
One features Tunza Gutz... and it has colour bars on the doors, as does a Land-Rover in the background. Its 17th Construction Sqn, 1967. Thats earlier than others seen isn't it?
http://www.awm.gov.au/collection/P08265.005
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-YP1EbYRSOSo/Uvn_coSHhYI/AAAAAAAAFnc/SzvtS6VqaUk/w1339-h596-no/Tunza-Guts-67-P08265dot005.jpg)
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Are you able to read the ARN on the front? I would suggest this is most probably ARN 107581, serving with 17 Construction Squadron Workshop, and not ARN 107593, 'Tunza Gutz' (crew commander Cpl Dave McCallum and Driver, Craftsman Ian 'Bluey' Rowe during 1968) which was on strength with 1 Supply and Transport Workshop based at VT, and later with 5 Company Workshop.
The image has been around for quite a while on the AWM website, and even made it into M&D (page 221). It is a nice image (that's why I chose it for the book!), and it also illustrates some of the variability in 'local unit mods'.
The colour bar code is interesting, as it is the old (WW2) system still in use, but with revised 4-digit USNs, rather than the 5-digit USNs of WW2 up to the late 50s. Grey/green/grey suggests an ending of '58' so a Unit Serial Number of XX58. 17 Construction Squadron & workshop were 1058, confirming the caption. So I suggest the Landy is serving also with the same unit.
Mike C
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My memory is failing then, its in the book! Well its the thought that counts, You were looking out for more markings the other months.
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Mate, that's OK: I had to go look to remember ... and I wrote it! Just shows the memory you are not the only one with a fallible memory!!
Ye, always looking out to add to the database of markings, thanks
Mike C
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I went back to "Mud & Dust" and on page 242, a scraper, also 17C Sqn, has the same markings:
http://www.awm.gov.au/collection/P08176.019/?image=1&fullscreen=true
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Here is a 9RAR pic. The Footlocker has 3 vertical colour bars.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-MzlH3b0_2D0/UacBiqOl7jI/AAAAAAAADaU/AF76awUVqy4/s760/unk-9rar-camp-35Vietnam.jpg)
I think there may be 4 bars on the footlocker, last one being a slightly lighter green than the footlocker towards the centre....or is that the ribbing reflecting ::).
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Here are 2 pics from today - sorry lousy resolution, but hope it helps someone
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Here is a no so good one, but who knows if it helps someone
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Here are a few general landy pics from today.
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Mmmmmm, Gun buggies. Does anyone have these?
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LWB and better resolution.
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another better res copy.
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What great photos - they have it all.
114327 has a headlight that appears interesting.
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Lotta details in those photos Jeepster. Can you give an idea of the time era in the photos ??
Note the lineup of Buckets. One part of the Troop have the new T50 Turrets and the other
the old Gun Shields. Might have been in the transition period.
Greg Mac.
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Those 6V53 sure do make a smoke screen!
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I'm off crook at the moment - have the details at the shop. I do remember him telling me is was 3cav, but can't remember the dates. The guy who gave me the images served with 3 cav and interestingly he is Burmese!
When I get to work next week, I'll give you what I have.
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Here's a GS 109in I hadn't seen before. Its in "VIETNAM: Australia's Ten Year War 1962-1972" by R. Pelvin 2006.
113-061 is in an interesting scene. Beside 113-061 is another Landy, a Series 2, but what variant I wonder. The rear doesn't quite look like its a GS.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-010eaL1eRAg/VAPHcxSZsnI/AAAAAAAAGhU/sVFYKx_XlDU/w1260-h841-no/113061-1400.jpg)
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Lots of pics and ARNs here:
http://www.103fieldbatteryraa.net/documents/max_carter.html
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S2A Gunbuggy 112-377 belongs to 'Roma Historic Motor club Qld, cheers Dennis :)
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Good digging, a photo of two of S2 FFW census 6006 108-545, belongum Rod (remlr 319)
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A couple from the 5 RAR website.
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104 Sig snaps
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More
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More
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Kiwi rover
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More
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And who would have been using the MUTT in the foreground of the Kiwi rollover photo?
Howard
Kiwi rover
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We have 114-341 in awaiting restoration, I'm wondering if anyone has come across a photographic record of it in country.
I note that 114-340 is shown in post #19 of this thread.
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one from the net
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snap, note some changes..
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Lol 8)
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Convoy rig
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103sigs
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more
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more. sorry if reposts.
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heaps in here
https://www.flickr.com/photos/aodcurator/5063662554/in/photostream/
http://www.17construction.org.au/gallery/main.php?g2_page=3
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12 fd regt. With kiwis.
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More
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More
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Just spotted these on Facebook - supposedly damage from a Land Mine.
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These came in today. Have the customers ok to share, but have no details as yet about them
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I was able to do good hi res 80mb scans of the previous slides, so here are some crops with what I can find that might be useful.
The limiting factor with sharpness is the camera they were taken on.
Alan
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Great photos Alan,
must be on the home journey as quarantine items removed, ie no canopies no tools etc that could contain soil/seeds etc
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These are a good find. I can match these ARNs to some existing data. Treasures!
These are RTA photos as Scoot said. Best guess is that the camera operator is RAN VTF personnel because these photos are not of one voyage but two (at least)..
113-986 MVA report form 9 Aug 71 as it hit a ARVN Jeep at North Gate 1ALSG. It was RTA 6 Nov 71 - one of the AFV withdrawal trips.
178-351 looks good and it should, its newish, and it only arrived in country 30 May 71. Short tour. 21C RAE. RTA 6 Nov 71 - one of the AFV withdrawal trips.
172-768 is newish too, it arrived in country Feb 71. Short tour. RTA 7 Oct 71 to Adelaide (3RAR). this is one of the AFV withdrawal trips.
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(http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq26/David_Pye/112%20951_zps8orsulgi.png) (http://s430.photobucket.com/user/David_Pye/media/112%20951_zps8orsulgi.png.html)
ARN 112 951, 17 Const. Reg't. SVN
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ARN BBB Series 2 lists
111098 as a 6005 CR. disp 11.11.65
111198 as a 6005 CR. disp 18.12.70
111298 as a 6006. disp 14.3.80
111398 as a 6006. disp 30.1.69
111498 as a 6006. It is noted in SVN Diary data. disp 3.10.69
111598 as a 6005 CR PNG ref. disp 18.1.66
111698 as a 6005 CR. disp 17.8.66
111798 as a 6005A w stretcher. disp 8.5.70
111898 as a 6028 but the Diary Data notes say it was on 17Const Sqn est. list during jun66 to may68 period. disp 3.10.69
111998 as a 6028G. It is noted in SVN Diary Data. BER. disp 2.6.69
Whats the fitting on top of the guard?
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-0Y7Nem64-UM/UYOL-nhjCVI/AAAAAAAADNQ/6q88MTKnzUU/s640/111498-103Sigs_11-1_1966-b.jpg)
What would the T3 TAC signify?
Daryl
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3 Troop of the Sigs Sqn.
(I think)
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Or the 3rd vehicle of T Troop ?
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thanks men ;) Far from being an expert...I thought only Arty/Armoured units had 3 TACs in certain circumstances?
Madge
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Iroquois helicopters (Hueys) flown by 9 Squadron RAAF arrive at Kangaroo Pad, Nui Dat from their base at Vung Tau, 1966
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SAS in a land rover.
And a workshop (?) with a white painted rear.
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various
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more. Like the half canopy idea.
The last pic may actually be in Aust, but it is listed under Vietnam on the awm site.
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Some more.
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More.
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more.
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more.
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113-397 on the third photo?
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I know a lot I am posting don't contain ARNs but I hope they contain some details which may be of interest.
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Workshop vehicle in the background. 113-849 is not on the Vietnam ARNs list. This vehicle was listed here for sale in 2014 on russell island qld.
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They are a few updates in the ARNs needed.
I have 113-849 mentioned in awm95-14-3-19, march 71, RAEME 106 Field WShop
and its RTA: file R553/2/3/2 pt 2, onboard VTF 06 november 71, alloc Nthn Comd Wksp ex-102 Fd Wksp
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great stuff Mr 2Short!
can you find, no pressure!
112 433
113 871
113 813 - Road Patrol
all ex SVN
then I need to work on Afghanistan...........
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You want more of 113-813! Now your just being greedy Mr.FFRMAN. ;)
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Kiwi Rover
111-467?
unknown ffr
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112-814? or 914?
same again
camped
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unusual use of a land rover
interior shot
bringing the beer
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Luv'in' your work 2 Short 😊👍👍👍
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Thanks Mick.
Cav rover
?-901?
prisoner
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civi 5th wheeler?
?-364
shorty
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shorty
Kiwi
waiting
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shorty
shorty with a big red roo
172-182
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rover with a 1 ton trailer
escort
various
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interior lhs
interior rhs
111-??4
-
17?-...
No brush bar
close up
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113-...
shorty
111-?95
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PM shorty
interesting sign on the rovers guard
...-083
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113-312 This one is not on the Vietnam ARN list.
unknown
113-3?2 RAN on tailgate?
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HMAS Sydney
early workshop and shorty
unknown
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no doors
no canvas
ambo no bar
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Ky
113-...
canvas detail
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ambos and a shorty
ambo inside
unknown
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108-650
ambo
unknown
-
unknown
Hardtop
unknown
-
engine bay
driver
maintenance
-
shorty
workshop trailer details
various
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Keep your eyes out for in-service photo of 112 502 please
Cheers Anthony (Tony) Egretz 368
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workshop
nice shot of a workshop
inside a workshop with lathe?
-
113-126
forward area ambo
same but reversed in the archives
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carrying what?
113-380
same
-
gunbuggy
CR training in Aus
same
-
Command recon training in Australia
again with 110-728?
again
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gunbuggy
workshop
unknown
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Two photos of 113-474.
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174-348
same
same
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New one! Not on the Vietnam ARN list.
114-026.
same
same
-
114-026
same
same
-
shorty
unknown
unknown
-
unknown s2
174-407
174-255 MP
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174-41?
174-207
same
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frustratingly close. 3 photos of the same 3 cav regt land rover. ARN unknown.
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bonnet details
workshop
same workshop
-
s2 workshop
same
same
-
same workshop as above
unknown shorty
same
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workshop
174-249
same
-
174-249
same
unknown with a no.5 trailer
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above with trailer now ID'd.
113-984. 3 photos.
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tyre mounted
rear step
escort
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174-444
same
same
-
108-111
108-650, 174-446 (NEW! Not on Vietnam ARN list), 108-111
108-650
-
hardtop
tin roof
shorties
-
black shovel
various
108-539
-
shorty
112-538
lots
-
112-938
?..-461?
hardtop
-
113-185
RAAF 220281
workshop trailers
-
padre cross
padre " the saint"
siren -MP vehicle?
-
radio
tailgate
gunbuggy
-
lwb
113-647?? If so it's new.
same
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A great day's work there!
Where to start...
New one! Not on the Vietnam ARN list.
114-026.
114-026 was on the VTF in Feb 68. On file R553/5/4/41 we see it RTA on the Jeparit 21 Nov 71 with 4RAR, alloc B Sqn 3Cav Regt Townsville.
Its a FFT 6006A.
-
unknown S2
Yes, there is a land rover in this picture!
112-474 or 404 or 464? Can't tell. May be new.
-
S2a
S2a
"4G" tyre marking
-
3 photos of a salvos landy.
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Armourers workshop Land Rover! 3 Pics.
-
engine
113-115 New one! Not on Vietnam ARN list.
172-158
-
113-854 workshop
same
113-114
-
S2 lwb or command recon?
176-660
same
-
engine work/tools
smashed
113-??? 161 Duty vehicle.
-
shorty
workshop
F1 sub mg
-
S2
113-472
workshop trailer
-
squeezed in
bullet holes
workshop 113-?..
-
gear lock details
shorties
shorty
-
Command Recon??
M60
unknown
-
114-526
under
And that's it for me. That's 1306 pages of the AWM on Vietnam. I've tried not to include the well known pics.
-
Mate Great Job, much appreciated.
-
Top effort Shorty,
Well done 👍👍👍👍👍👍
-
Outstanding effort, a lot of good reference details in those.
We need to find you another photo collection!
-
Thanks guys. It was enjoyable.
-
ok, two workshops, is that a radar workshop on the right? The other one reads 113-64? or 113-84?
-
Looks like 113 843 from here.
And a Kiwi trailer as well, you don't see a lot of clear photos of those.