Author Topic: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck  (Read 138772 times)

Offline Acco 4x4

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #90 on: October 22, 2016, 09:20:06 PM »
Hi Greg, Love your work!!!!!
Sounds like they are a bit far gone..... Wouldn't it be quicker and easier to fab up a new set? Eg. standard square hollow section say (without seeing the actual size of the folded unit on the truck) 30 x 30 x 2.5-3mm thick and a length of flat bar about 3-4mm thick and how ever wide and laminate it onto the square section..... could use dura gal too never rust again... :) will end up with the same profile.
Tim

Offline Ravvin

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #91 on: October 22, 2016, 10:49:05 PM »
Oh it's not that bad. It's only the flat bar on the back that has rusted and spalled. I started cutting the welds with a thin grinder cutting disk and the folded section is not even pitted. I'm thinking it is an issue with water sitting in the narrow gap and over time, eating it away. Once I grind the last of the weld away I don't think anyone would ever know it was rusted.
The flat bar on the back is exactly 100mm across and 3.5mm thick. The folded section that it is welded to is 110 wide, mostly, so it sticks out past the flat bar a bit either side, and that is where is it welded. I'll do the same.
I can't get into the recess in the back with the wire cup on the grinder, so I'll try the big wire wheel on the bench grinder. Once it's really clean, I'll prime and paint the inside with something decent. One of the guys at work is an ex-boilermaker and is being volunteered to assist me with re-welding the backs on. He also suggested heavy galv for the new backs.

One issue he noticed that I missed was that there are 3 captured nuts welded to the edge of the bottom section. These are for the bolts that hold the tank bash plate on. I will cut the new backs, clamp them on along the bottom, mark the hole centres and then drill them at work on the big pedestal drill. That's one thing I don't have at home yet. That and room. I have a rental inspection on Tuesday and spent most of today removing truck bits from inside, stashing them in the truck cabs until its over. I don't see an issue with having a half rebuilt brake master unit or a disassembled Garwood Olding 20,00lb winch on the floor in the lounge room, but my sister believes normal people would have. People are weird.

Anyway, once the 3 holes are drilled, I can fit the back plates, do up the 3 bolts to hold it perfectly aligned, and get it welded. He suggested tacking it in a few places then running the weld in 1" strips, alternating sides to reduce distortion. The fun part will be bending it neatly around the corner, but if we clamp as we go and tack it too, it should come out ok. The holes in the upright section can be drilled after it is all welded, as there are no nuts welded there that would be in the way. Should look good. Until I paint it and refit it. Nobody will ever know it isn't original.

I gave the second brake master unit it's last top coat today, so I might get it reassembled tomorrow if I get the house tidying done. The first one looks really good, better than original.

Greg.

Offline STDDIVER

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #92 on: October 24, 2016, 07:58:53 PM »
Greg - its a pity more Acco owners are land lords!  It would make things a whole lot easier! ;)

Keep up the great work - I really enjoy your thread!   :)

Frank

Offline Ravvin

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #93 on: November 05, 2016, 09:24:03 PM »
Thanks for that. The inspection went so well that I'm pretty sure she didn't actually come inside.
I got the second master cylinder completed. They look pretty good.



I noticed just now that the wear indicator rod is sticking out further on one than the other. I think the big coil spring may have moved and the rod is sitting on one of the coils. I'll have to pop it open and try to centralise it a bit better before I refit them.

We have a 3 day weekend down here, for some reason, and I planned on getting a lot more done. As usual, something comes along to stuff it up. While it's not raining, it's blowing 48 km/h and gusting to 57. Everything I put down tries to take off. I tried doing some sand blasting but my little awning that blocks the light out so I can see what I'm cleaning blows away every few seconds. Nowhere I can work out of the wind except inside, and the truck won't fit in here. If it did, it would be in here though.
I went out the back and managed to remove the front fuel tank, which is the one that was being used. It has just under 4 gallons of petrol in it, so I will have to be a lot more careful with this one.
When I lifted the rear strap up, it lifted a big chunk of rust spall up with it and I found out where the strong fuel smell was coming from.



It didn't look too bad as I carried it down to the house. It looked like a large depression, but when I sloshed it around I found petrol seeping out. When I got it on the bench, I gave it a light rub with the wire brush to see how bad it was and if there were other places I needed to fix. That's when I found the big hole that you can see in the pic above.
I'll drain it and wash it out with soapy water before doing anything else to it. Just too risky. Once I clean it up I'll decide whether I bog it or cut the piece out and weld in a patch. If it's bad enough to need a patch, I'll fix it but use it on the MK3, if I ever get that far. The 2 tanks that I have removed from the MK3 seem to be in pretty good condition, so I'll pick the best and use it on this one.

Another thing I found was when I unscrewed the fuel pipe from the top of the tank, it sprang away when I let it go. The pipe has been bent or twisted and this has caused it to press heavily against the chassis rail where it passes through the hole where the rubber grommet is supposed to be. All mine has is a sort of gooey black mess where it used to be. I think the pipe might have almost worn through, so I will have to remove it and see before refitting the tanks.

With that little job completed, I was able to get at the bolts for the tank supports. These ones came out a lot easier than the ones for the rear tank as I was able to get fairly clear access to the nuts on the back for all but 1 of the bolts. That one I had to get at through a hole in the deck as it was above the crossmember for the transfer case.
With those out of the way, I was able to get a nice clear look at the chassis rail and the spacer rail between it and the deck crossmembers.



As you can see, it looks pretty rough. The chassis rail isn't too bad, but the spacer rail is much worse. Once I put the wheels back on the other side and let it down, I will jack this side up and remove the wheels for better access. Then I'll give it a good going over with the wire wheel on the grinder, then a coat of Ironize, then prime and paint. Really, it needs to be in a shed where I can lift the deck right off. Then I could get at the insides of the chassis rails with a pressure washer to blast all the dirt and crud out. I found out today that the air lines and wiring bundle that run along the rail are buried under about an inch of dried mud. I need to get rid of it, but there is just no access. Once I remove some of the deck timbers I might have a better angle.

On the subject of cleaning things, check out the pics below.



While the tanks are off, I will have a go at degreasing and pressure washing the diffs/power dividers and the transfer case, gearbox/hydraulic pump and engine. At least the weather is warming up, so I'll just be filthy and wet instead of filthy, wet and frozen. With a bit of luck it will kill a lot of the grass I have to keep mowed.

Well, I still have 2 more days off, so I might get more done. I'll post it up if I get anything significant done.

Greg.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2017, 06:47:43 PM by Ravvin »

Offline Ravvin

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #94 on: November 07, 2016, 07:29:54 PM »
As usual, nothing went to plan. Spent most of yesterday fixing a gas fridge for mum, who commented on how it seems these things always break down on weekends or times when the proper repair people are off on holiday. Last time this happened, it was the Xmas to New Year time and everyone who could repair gas fridges had shut down for their yearly holiday. Luckily, after the last episode, I was able to narrow it down to a partially blocked gas injector. Same issue as 10 months ago. How can gas be dirty? If it was the burner mesh blocking up, I could understand it, but it is just a brass fitting that has a 0.370mm hole through it for the gas to flow. It then goes through a fitting where it draws air in at atmospheric pressure so it emerges at the burner gauze mixed. Same principal as on the old Primus gas burners. The area that blocks up only has gas from the bottle through it, so the gas must contain the particles. I am going to try to find a sintered brass filter that I can fit in the line after the regulator and before the fridge fitting. It will need to be large enough that it can still pass the required amount of gas even after catching 12 months worth of particles. I should be able to clean it out with metho or acetone or something. I'll have to chat to a fridgey or gas plumber.

Anyway, this morning it rained and blew. Now the sun is out but the wind is up. I cleaned the hole in the front fuel tank a bit and found that it is pretty much the only fault with this tank.



I checked the 2 off the MK3, but I think they are worse. One has a row of rust spalls across both front curved sections where the strap ran. I had to remove the straps from the other one before I could check it out.
It's better, but not great.



As you can see, this one has a string of small pin-holes, but they are across the bottom. That seems to be a lot more of a problem to me. If the holes are in the top and get bogged, they should seal and it's less likely to leak as the fuel only touches there when it sloshes. On the bottom, any patch or bog is in constant contact with the fuel.
I also noticed that the fuel outlet fitting on the top of the tank points forwards on the MK3 and it uses a short copper pipe bent into a J shape to redirect it. The F1 has the outlet pointing straight back to the chassis rail. If I did use the MK3 tank, I could just turn the fitting around when I refitted it. I wonder why they did it like this in the first place?

I also realised I never took any pics of the rear tank after it was finished. So here they are.

Before:



Partly cleaned up:



Patched, primed and painted. 2 coats:



I looked at the 2 dimples in the front after I cleaned it up. I couldn't get at them from inside and I didn't want to drill a hole in them to pull them out. I don't know anyone with one of those welding things that spot weld a pin to a dent to allow it to be popped out. I considered just bogging it but figured that a thick lump of bog is likely to fall out some time. The tank is going to get dinged in the future, and for a truck built in 1968, a few dents are expected.

I'm taking the holed F1 tank and the leaky MK3 tank in to work to see if one of the guys is willing to have a go blowing themselves up, I mean welding a patch in. There are 2 trade qualified boilermakers there. One worked on steam vessels and systems at a weaving mill and the other spent a lot of time at a panelbeating business in the past. Between the 2 of them I'm hoping they will know what will work best.

Greg.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2017, 06:53:10 PM by Ravvin »

Offline Chazza

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #95 on: November 07, 2016, 09:31:33 PM »



I looked at the 2 dimples in the front after I cleaned it up. I couldn't get at them from inside...

People who repair dented brass wind-instruments, use a dolly, which is a steel ball welded to a round bar, which has been bent to a suitable shape. I think on your tank, a piece of steel plate ground to the same radius as the top of the tank and welded to a suitable bar, would work well. It would require a helper and a flipper to raise the dent.

Sorry I did not mention this earlier but I couldn't see the dents before you put that u-beaut paint on it – nice work!

Cheers Charlie
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Offline Ravvin

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #96 on: December 03, 2016, 06:07:08 PM »
I finally got to do a bit more today.
I made new brake lines for the rear axle and fitted them. They are very different from the originals, but they hug the axle housing and so should be less likely to be hooked by scrub and sticks.
I fitted the rare earth magnet to the diff plug, refitted it and refilled the rear diff with oil. I pulled the diff breathers apart to clean them but found that they have a light spring and a little plug inside them,
that has totally rusted away. I think the idea is that they keep the diff sealed until it builds up to around 0.5psi, then allows the expanding air out.
I had a bit of a think about it and came up with a better idea.



I got a 1/8" NPT barb to screw into the diff and clear plastic tube that I ran up the nearby brake line. On the open end, up under the chassis rail, I fitted another barb with a sintered brass filter on the end. This should let it breath and also keep the mud wasps out. It's all neatly clipped up to the brake hoses with cable ties so should be ok.

After that, I sprayed some degreaser around the diff and power divider, as they have layers of caked on grease and grime. I left it a bit to soak in then gave them a blast with the pressure washer. A lot came off but there is a lot left. When the ground dries out a bit I'll get back under and scrape and chip at what's left, then give it another go with the degreaser.

While under there, I realised that I am going to have to lift the tray off. There is a layer of rust between the chassis rail and the spacer rail under the tray. It looks almost like when a layer of ply delaminates. Once I get a fuel tank back on, I will start it up and try to find a level spot out the back. I will remove all of the U-bolts holding the tray down and then jack it up and sit it on drums and packing, then drive out from under it.
With the tray off, I will be able to clean the chassis rails and get at the brake lines much more easily.

With the ground under the back of the truck all wet, I decided to do something that I have been avoiding for a while. I got under the front and tried finding the engine number. The F1 User Manual says that it should be on a flat area on the right side if the engine, just under the air compressor mounting bracket. They lied!
I scraped and brushed everything I could get at, and after getting covered in grease and dirt, I finally realised that there was nothing there. Unless it is actually on the block behind the compressor mounting bracket, there is actually no room between the bottom of the bracket and the sump pan that would be wide enough to stamp a number.

While cleaning crud off, I did find a rebuild plate. That was pretty exciting.



I managed to get a fairly decent pic of it too.

After that, I thought i might just as well check the regular place for an engine number, down on the left side of the engine on the top face next to the oil filter pressure bypass adapter. Yep, there it was.
With a bit of degreaser and a scrub with a bronze brush, I got the pic below.



As you can see, it is 6 - 283 - 05317.
Now this is where it gets interestinger.
The REMLR list shows my truck, chassis number ADE 6X6 3588, as being a 1972 Truck, Cargo, 5 Ton, GS, With Winch. It's engine number is listed as 6 - 283 - 12376.
The plate in the cab agrees with the chassis number and that it is a Truck, Cargo, 5 Ton, GS, With Winch, but it insists that it is from 1969.



I searched through the REMLR lists for the engine number and found it was from a Truck, Dump, 5 Ton, GS, With Winch, so an F2 from 1968 with chassis number 2321.
So nowhere on my truck have I seen anything about it having the Abbey Crane. From what I can work out, it must have been a regular F1 Cargo and had the Abbey fitted while in service at some point. It has the little ladder platform for servicing and all of the operating instruction plates on the roof, even if they are so faded that I can't read them, and the lifting weight limit plate in the cab. At some point I am going to need to find out how to actually work the thing, so I can see what needs overhauling.

Earlier in the week, I had a play with one of the wheels. It seems that between the 2 trucks, I have 6 galvanised rims, so they are all going on this truck.
The first one I picked out held air, but had this weird patch on the side wall. There are no signs of any problems on the inside though.



Looking at it, it seems to be like a large blister. I was able to poke a screwdriver into that little hole and wiggle it around. It went in over 2". The rubber is soft to the touch, almost like silicon.
I looked up a few Youtube videos on changing tires on 3 piece rims, which were somewhat helpful. I took the valve stem out and let it go down. Next I applied lubricant to the bead. This was actually just laundry detergent that I had dissolved in a bucket of water to soak one of my weekend work shirts in, as it got covered in smelly gear oil. I remember removing a tire with Allan, (Red Rocket/Restless Rover), years ago and we used a short section of angle iron on the tire, against the steel edge. Then we belted it with the sledge hammer to force the tire down off the bead. It took forever as you had to chase the bit of angle after every swing. In the videos, they used a tool like a sledge hammer but with an edge like a curved, blunt chisel. They swung it and hit the tire right on the bead edge, without belting the rim. I doubted my accuracy, as I can't hit the same spot twice with an axe, so I tried a modification. I didn't have one of their tools, but I had a mattock. I put the edge on the bead, against the rim/lockring, and belted the spike on the back of the mattock with a 4lb mini sledge. Surprisingly, this worked. 2 good hits and the tire slid off the bead. I worked my way around and the outer ring dropped down. With that down, I was able to hook out the lock ring with the tire levers and worked it around until I could pull it off. With that and the outer ring off, I turned the tire over and tried breaking the bead on the back. That was a waste of time. The rim is held up off the ground by the tire, so it can't come free. Eventually I remembered one video where he had made up a stand from a smaller rim that he dropped the tire onto. I borrowed a rim from work and tried that. With the truck rim sitting up off the ground, it only took a few hits on the mattock to have the tire slip free.
From there, all I had to do was stand the tire up, pull out the tube protector and tube, and the main part of the rim just fell out onto the ground. Easy, just strenuous as everything weighs heaps.
I pumped up the tube to see what sort of condition it was in and found it had a single patch and an area where they had roughed it up to patch and then realised that they had missed the hole. It stayed pumped up all week, so should be ok to reuse.



I gave the rim and rings a good going over with the wire wheel. There was no rust, but there was a lot of rough sections, especially around where the lock rings go and on the other side where the tire seats. I think a lot of it was a mixture of dirt that got forced into the gap and rubber that came off the tires over the years. There were places where I think the paint was 5 layers thick.
With it all cleaned off, I primed it and it is ready to go back together. I have to pick out a decent tire from my collection and once it's all together, I will paint all visible areas with the olive drab, just like it used to be.



While the mattock worked, belting it with a sledge hammer was a bit rough on it. I have to clean up the edge with the grinder before using it again and the main blade has sharp edges that could cut the tire or gouge the rim.
I chased around and found the tool in the pic below.



This weighs 4lb and is specifically designed for breaking beads and being flogged with big hammers. I also brought a stump home from one of my harvest operations, and will reshape it a bit to make getting tires off a bit easier.

Next job is to take the toolbox off on the passenger side. With that off, I can clean the outside of the chassis rail and repaint it. After that, once I get another rim & tire cleaned & changed, I can fit them on the passenger side and then do the same to the driver's side. Then clean up and refit the fuel tank supports, fuel tanks, and the stone guard under them.
I got the second tank back from the radiator repairers. 



I'm not really happy with the finished look. They cut out the rusted section and patched it, but they wrapped a strip of flat bar around where the tank restraint strap lays. They didn't clamp it flush to the tank surface before welding it, so it is up and down all along the length of it and the welds are really rough. I am going to clean up all the welds and repaint the whole tank, to match the other one. I might look at using wider tank restraint straps and insertion rubber to cover the ugly strip.

Oh well, that will do for now. With Xmas coming up fast, I am hoping for some good weather during my time off, to get plenty done. Will post here as things happen.

Greg.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2017, 06:58:38 PM by Ravvin »

Offline dugite

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #97 on: December 04, 2016, 08:15:30 AM »
Even though I'll never have an Inter I've really been enjoying your comprehensive posts Greg- well done!
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Offline Chazza

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #98 on: December 04, 2016, 09:53:20 AM »
Top work Greg! You have taught me a new way to break a bead.  :)

When I was in the Army, we used to drive over the flat tyre and then the bloke on the ground would rotate the wheel and the driver would reverse back over it and so on; it was laborious but worked.

There are slide-hammers available for bead-breaking; they look like a crowbar with a sliding heavy tube on them; the advantage is that you can stand up and no fingers get hit.

Another method which works on Land Rover rims, is to force a hi-lift jack-base down onto the tyre, whilst trying to lift the vehicle; it may not work on a truck tyre though.

Did the Youtube video mention the dangers of inflating the tyre and the split-rim coming off. Ideally the tyre is inflated in a steel cage; in the field we used to face the split-rim towards the ground and kid ourselves that by standing back we were safe,

Cheers Charlie
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Offline Ravvin

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #99 on: December 04, 2016, 06:19:30 PM »
I've broken beads on car and 4wd tires by driving over them and also using a high-lift jack, like you said. These tires are really old and very stiff. As I was alone, it would be a bit tricky trying to drive over them, having to reposition and drive over them again. I remember the 4wd tires tended to flip up and be a pain.

I'm not sure if it was because the rims were galvanised and there was no rust at all, or if I was just lucky, but the tire I removed came off really easily.
I am going to reshape the log section I brought home and fit the car rim on top with a couple of big coach screws to stop it moving. Once that's done, I'll get my sister to come over and video me taking the next one off and I'll post it here. Knowing my luck, and because it's being recorded, it will probably stick or find some other way to go wrong. We'll see.

As for re-inflating them and seating the bead, I watched a few clips showing what happens when they let go. I intend to turn the tire so it's ring side down and lay it flat on the ground. I will stack a few tires on top for extra weight. I have a lock-on type tire inflation fitting so I will set the regulator on the compressor to 60psi and wait till it stops hissing. Lots of tire lube and we'll see what happens. The compressor hose is really long, so I can do this out in the back paddock, away from breakable things.

I saw the slide-hammer type bead breakers, but they are all around $400. I just wouldn't get enough use out of them to justify spending so much. I could have a go at making one, with a star picket driver and old crowbar, but the cost of buying those, even second-hand, is more than I paid for the tool that I bought.

Watch this space for a video, coming soon. Maybe.

Greg.

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #100 on: December 04, 2016, 06:34:45 PM »
Regarding the safety of split rims, I always seat them as well as possible with a lump hammer, lay them ring side down and then slide them under the chassis rail to inflate so if it does let go it will be a loud bang and not a flying projectile, just a thought.......
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Offline STDDIVER

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #101 on: December 05, 2016, 02:35:19 PM »
Greg - as always,  I like your post - always informative - Just a word with the split rims  - we always threaded HT load chain around the tyre through the centre of the wheel many times at least 60 degrees apart and more turns equally spaced if we had longer chain. shackle the ends together and  there you have a mobile safety cage.  On some occasions, I had to tap the split rims to settle them in so they came up evenly.    The chain saved us on one occasion!   :)

Frank

Offline Mick_Marsh

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #102 on: December 05, 2016, 06:26:09 PM »
Watch this space for a video, coming soon. Maybe.
What? Of a disc shaped UFO?
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Offline STDDIVER

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #103 on: December 05, 2016, 06:37:20 PM »
Spot on Mick! The chain is passed around the outside of the tyre (with a little bit of slack) then through the centre and with a twist and then threaded over the tyre then through the centre again etc all the way around where the ends or one end and a link is shackled securely.

 ;)

Offline Acco 4x4

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #104 on: December 05, 2016, 09:21:30 PM »
Might sound a bit lazy but i just bought a tire machine! Picked up a wheel balancer too and I'm away! :) Its paid for itself many times over and earned me many beers along the way. I defiantly agree with the chain thing, it will stop any unwanted projectiles.....
P.S both machines owe me under $600..... make eBay your friend! lol :D :D :D :D
Oh and Greg, I still love your work mate! Top Job!!!!