Registry of Ex Military Land Rovers
REMLR General => REMLR - General Chatter => Topic started by: tona on November 10, 2018, 07:12:23 PM
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BEARMAN G/AY I would like your honest opinion please,I am thinking of fitting a 296 filter kit prior to that mongrel little filter thats on the side of the lift pump, do you think it will starve the lift pump of fuel , I do tend to drive the rfsv a bit on the hard side so i,m told ,will sit on 105 on the h/way and use revs when i need to off road, what do you think ,TONA,.
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G'day Tona, No it won't starve the lift pump - whack it in, I have one fitted to the 6x6 just after the Pollak valve and it's a bigger one than a 296. No more crud on that mongrel little strainer anymore.
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THANKS bearman, I will go ahead with that advice, I have a 296 filter kit so i will put that in as soon as i get a chance , again thanks ,TONA,.
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MATE ,did you leave the mongrel filter or did you remove it TONA,.
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Leave it in, just in case something gets past the filter.
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You can also get a 296 filter body with a primer pump in it, mount it somewhere easy to reach, better than reaching down to the pump to prime.
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THANKS yerriyong for the reply,TONA.
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Tona
As another option I was looking at the fuel filters on the old Nissan patrols, they have a water sensor in them with a dash light that comes on when water is in your fuel. Possibly not that important with shop diesel but more important if you buy dodgey fuel from 44 gall drums out at some stations, or worse use home made bio like me that we sometimes wash in water to remove the detergents. Yesterday I googled 296 filters with a Water in fuel sensor and you can get them in the UK, I think with aftermarket sensors.
I currently use 2 glass bowled 296 filter/sedimenters replacing the 2 standard sedimenters on my RFSV which puts them between the tank and the mongrel strainer. They are a direct swap on the same mounts if you get the right ones. They must work as I check the mongrel strainer most services and it is always clean.
Just for interest I am also thinking of replacing my engine fuel filter with one with an electric diesel heater in it so I can make my bio a bit cheaper as it will burn better warm.
If I was to do it again I would definitely get the 296 filters with primers as it takes a while to prime the air from the fuel from the tank right to the standard primer pump at the engine. I prefer the glass bowl 296 filters as you can instantly see if you have crap in your fuel.
I personally would also look to see if you can get the water lights if you could be bothered with the wiring. Filters Plus (Abernathy Rd Kewdale) will know if you can get a filter with a water warning light and a primer, and could sell you the ones with primers.
Anyhow we can have a gossip about filters at the VCC meeting next week if you feel like it.
cheers
David
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you can get a deeper filter 796, I think, just have to use a longer center bolt.
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;) THANKS to all that replied, I have had this 296 kit at home since i retired in 96 and am going to use it on the rfsv fit it before that mongrel filter and bleed it the old fashion way.I do pre fill the filter replacement before screwing it on being careful not to let any dirt get in tighten it up and bleed it in the normal way, I will clean that little bugger out before i fit the std filter in, thanks all ,TONA.
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:( DAVID, didn't get change to say hello at the last meet , hope to see you and the bride on the 15th dec at the club rooms @ 1800 hrs see ya then ,TONA.
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... they have a water sensor in them with a dash light that comes on when water is in your fuel. Possibly not that important with shop diesel but more important if you buy dodgey fuel from 44 gall drums out at some stations, ...
cheers
David
I have been sold water in diesel twice, from nice clean, tidy forecourts; the last time was about a month ago. Of course they denied it and said that no one else had complained, but it was the water alarm that saved my pump on both occasions.
An alarm is an excellent idea!
Cheers Charlie
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;) CHAZZA G/AY I think i have this right ,do you live in narrogin w.a,if so i go on day trips around the good ole oz and was just down that way last week , i you like next time i am down that way i could call in and say hello if it's o.k. by you ,lets know and i can give you my contact details, cheers ,TONA,.
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Yep, call in any weekend.
I may be away during the fire-season but there is only one way to find out,
Cheers Charlie
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THANKS CHAZZA,so true , have a great xmas you and all your family,TONA.
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Bearman
what sort of filter did you install? Do you have any pictures?
I am thinking of installing something myself as that gauze filter in the banjo is a bastard to get out.
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Mine is a 6x6 so has dual fuel tanks. I installed the filter immediately after the electric tank changeover switch. I used a Fleetguard FS1221 which is a filter/sedimenter. Away from home and don't have pics with me but can upload when I get home later in the week. I also installed a Ryco Z169A on the line from the auxiliary tank I fitted which uses a head the same as on the engine filter. This filters the fuel from the aux tank before it gets to the electric switch.
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Brian, how did you couple in the aux tank? I am thinking that to keep the plumbing simple, rather than using a second Pollack that I will just pump from the extra tank into one of the existing tanks. Not really sure of the best way to go.
Cheers,
Paul
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Mine is a RFSV so will be similar to your 6x6 so would be very interested to see some pics.
Earlier in this post i think it was suggested that the CAV 296 will fit the existing sediment traps. Is this the case and do you have an opinion?
Tom
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Brian, how did you couple in the aux tank? I am thinking that to keep the plumbing simple, rather than using a second Pollack that I will just pump from the extra tank into one of the existing tanks. Not really sure of the best way to go.
Cheers,
Paul
Paul, that is exactly what I did. For simplicity I just plumbed the line from the auxiliary into a T piece on the breather pipe on the drivers side tank. I had to insert some smaller breather pipe inside the original breather hose and routed it to the breather on the aux tank filler pipe so if I forgot to turn it off when it was full the excess would then return to the aux tank filler pipe.
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Mine is a RFSV so will be similar to your 6x6 so would be very interested to see some pics.
Earlier in this post i think it was suggested that the CAV 296 will fit the existing sediment traps. Is this the case and do you have an opinion?
Tom
I will post some up on the weekend Tom. I haven't done that myself as I think I have enough filters now but that is correct. Pull the sedimenter apart and discard the metal centre bit and insert the filter into there and bolt it back up.
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Thanks. Do you have an opinion on which approach is better?
Tom
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Thanks. Do you have an opinion on which approach is better?
Tom
You can never have enough filtration but you have to be mindful that you don't put too much strain on the lift pump as well. A happy medium is the go. My opinion is that 1 extra filter in line won't hurt so in the case of the RFSV or 6X6 in would be OK to convert the sedimenters to filters as only 1 will be in use at a time. Cheers
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Thanks. Do you have an opinion on which approach is better?
Tom
You can never have enough filtration but you have to be mindful that you don't put too much strain on the lift pump as well. A happy medium is the go. My opinion is that 1 extra filter in line won't hurt so in the case of the RFSV or 6X6 in would be OK to convert the sedimenters to filters as only 1 will be in use at a time. Cheers
that is what I have done on the RFSV - works fine :)
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Thanks all
looks like a visit to ebay coming up.
;)
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try local bearing shoppe :)
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296 filters are a great choice as they can be a direct swap with the sedimenters with no changes to the fuel lines required.
You will have to make a few personal choices:
1) glass bowl or metal bowl - I went Glass so I can see what sediments are in my fuel (I run bio but even with diesel you can see if it has sludge or water with the obvious downside of glass is more breakable than metal (Mine have been 2 years no issues)
2) Primer pump on filter or not - I didn't get the primer pump version but would if I had the choice again, if you drain off the bowl on the filter without the primer version you need to pump the air out all the way from the bleeder pump at the engine
3) I heard but haven't seen there is a version that has a water in fuel alarm, I think you would have to ebay it overseas if you chose this as I haven't seen it in Australia but have seen a picture.
I certainly don't regret replacing the sedimenters (one per tank on my RFSV) with 296 filters and would certainly recommend it, especially if running cheap diesel or home made biodiesel
cheers
David
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Paul, that is exactly what I did. For simplicity I just plumbed the line from the auxiliary into a T piece on the breather pipe on the drivers side tank. I had to insert some smaller breather pipe inside the original breather hose and routed it to the breather on the aux tank filler pipe so if I forgot to turn it off when it was full the excess would then return to the aux tank filler pipe.
Thanks Brian,
I was wondering if I could just plumb the auxiliary fuel into the breather line. I was concerned that the fuel might just pump up and out of the breather hose as pressure built up in the tank. I was thinking of running a pipe up to the filler pipe near the fuel cap, but that would mean removing the filler pipe to weld in a fitting, which doesn't look easy.
I had also considered running the main tank breather into the outlet of the aux tank, so that as fuel is taken from the main tank it will suck fuel in from the aux tank. The down side of that is that there would then be no breather available while filling the main tank at the bowser.
I have added a circuit that cuts power to the auxiliary pump when the right tank reaches 3/4 full. I know one day I would forget and pump 200 litres of fuel onto the ground.....
Cheers,
Paul
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296 filters are a great choice as they can be a direct swap with the sedimenters with no changes to the fuel lines required.
You will have to make a few personal choices:
1) glass bowl or metal bowl - I went Glass so I can see what sediments are in my fuel (I run bio but even with diesel you can see if it has sludge or water with the obvious downside of glass is more breakable than metal (Mine have been 2 years no issues)
2) Primer pump on filter or not - I didn't get the primer pump version but would if I had the choice again, if you drain off the bowl on the filter without the primer version you need to pump the air out all the way from the bleeder pump at the engine
3) I heard but haven't seen there is a version that has a water in fuel alarm, I think you would have to ebay it overseas if you chose this as I haven't seen it in Australia but have seen a picture.
I certainly don't regret replacing the sedimenters (one per tank on my RFSV) with 296 filters and would certainly recommend it, especially if running cheap diesel or home made biodiesel
cheers
David
I will certainly give it a go. Local bearing shop here i come.
On a separate note we purchased a ex Norforce Toyota landcruiser a few years ago. It was also running fish and chip oil. It had a heat exchange unit in the fuel line. I pulled all that out and it now runs on ordinary diesel. An interesting setup but it worked for the previous owner who claimed the heat exchange sorted lots of problems.
Anyway thanks for the advice.
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My 2 bob, Not too change sedimenter for filter, sedimenter performs an important job, place inline 296 cav (with primer head) in engine bay before lift pump easy access, I don't use glass bowls any more they chip easily and require an extra seal in base. With having 2 tanks 6x6 I put in a 2" balance pipe so I can fill both tanks from one side.
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The balance tube sounds like a good idea - thanks. It could make filling a little more convenient :)
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An important note to remember is if you look at the flow path when the filter is out you will see that the dirty fuel go's into the top of the filter not the bowl where it should the reason for this is that the 296 is an old system filter (an agglomerator) which is designed to be installed on the pressure side of the lift pump (where the 169a is on the 4bd1) so installing on the suction side of the lift pump it is best to connect the inlet and outlet in the reverse of the arrows shown on the filter head.
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Yerriyong
regarding your comment My 2 bob, Not too change sedimenter for filter, sedimenter performs an important job,
I understood most 296 filters have a sedimenter incorporated, mine was certainly sold as a filter/sedimenter and it removes any water, glycerol etc out of the biofuel. I can't see how a sedimenter alone would improve on this, but I am no expert so would like to hear your view.
What does the standalone sedimenter do that a 296 filter/sedimenter doesn't do?
The only downside I was told about was that the lift pump is designed for flow through a single filter, and putting a second filter in may cause earlier failure, but that this can be overcome with an additional electric pump at the tank if it worries.
The upsides are no issues with the banjo bolt filter which is now clean at every service, easy to see when the sedimenter bowl needs to be emptied, additional filter before the injectors in unlikely event one fails, simple easy to replace filters (and in bulk Delphi filters are quite cheap on feebay)
I have had glass bowl filters for several years and they have never chipped, however I have fashioned a galvanised bash plate Ubolted to the chassis for the passenger side one that is more exposed. I was told the only downside was they can get sandblasted and hard to see through, but I haven't seen this. The glass means you can tell at a glance if the bowl needs to be drained.
Offroading for an emergency I carry a readily available spare glass, seals, and 296 filters, and one of the old sedimenters but have never had to use them. Every time I have bought a new filter it comes with the 2 seals one for between the filter and glass, and one for between the filter and the housing so have had no issue with seals.
regards
David
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Hello David, the 296 filter does not technically have a sedimenter, the system is an agglomerator, when it is mounted on the pressure side of the lift pump the fuel is forced down through the filter and the water particles are supposed to conglomerate in the bottom of the bowl. If you reverse the connections the fuel will go through the bowl first then your bowl is a small sedimenter. The sedimenter on the chassis is only for catching heavier debry and water and will always work better than the filter bowl because it holds more fuel and has a cone baffle.
I have been using 296 filters as a primary filter for many years for outback travel and the last 20 years on all of my tractors and generators without any flow issues, they cant be used on common rail because of flow rates and biofuel would only be an issue if the viscosity was much heavier than diesel. There are lots of other good filters out there but for me traveling remote areas they are common and cheap, the glass bowl is a personal choice, I have chipped and broken them when the filter has been mounted in a tight location and it is one less spare I need to carry and for being able to see whats in your bowl I have found after ten thousand k's there hasn't been much to see in the bowl. I do think if you choose to have a see through bowl the glass is a better option than the plastic which I have found to go brittle in a couple of years from the diesel. This is only my experience and I encourage you to research. Thanks Dave.
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After some more reading I know a little bit more about the difference between sedimenters and agglomerators. I read the sedimenters use the difference in specific gravity to separate water from fuel and that agglomerators remove fine particles of water from the fuel. It seems if you have lots of water (or I guess anything with a different specific gravity to diesel) in your fuel a sedimenter is a good idea but otherwise an agglomerator only is fine.
Any way my agglomerator works fine so I will stick with it for now, thanks for your views Yerriyong.
regards
david
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For those people that are fitting extra aux fuel tanks and plumbing them into the breather on existing tanks which was what I had done, I have found that main tanks were getting air locks and not filling to the top, which when you think about it makes sense if fuel is going in where air needs to escape, so what I have found on closer inspection is that on top of the tank forward of the fuel pick up there is a small square plate about the size of a match box with 2 screws fixing it, when you remove it, it is another tank access to plumb an aux fuel line by brazing a fitting in the plate, and since my issues have been solved. Dave.
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Ripper Dave, that is great information. I was just about to rip out the fuel filler neck to braze in a fitting to fill it from the aux tank - this is MUCH easier!
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Paul while you are at the filler necks a good mod is to braze/ weld a elbow on each and have a 38mm bridge between the 2 tanks so you can fill from either side, the hose is 38mm fuel transfer same as fire suction hose but black from a store like clarke rubber. Dave
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Thanks Dave, good suggestion, but thanks to your info, I won't need to remove the filler neck which looks like a messy job. The vehicle is stripped down at the moment so can't be driven, and there is a lot of fuel in the tanks. A wiser man would have made sure both tanks were near empty before stripping down......
I have a 180 litre auxiliary tank which fills from the RHS. I will regard the left tank basically as an emergency tank and mostly just use the RHS tanks.
Cheers, Paul
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What location did you end up using for your aux tank.
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Thanks blokes,
I have a 330 litre tank to plump in. Looking at all possibilities. Great Stuff.
Cheers Rob
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What location did you end up using for your aux tank.
Dave, it sits between the chassis rails. I removed the original body and will build the camper from scratch. You can see here the sub-chassis that will support the camper body. (If I have worked out how to insert a picture)
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Looks great Paul, going on the geometry you be able to have the simplicity of gravity feed to your main tanks without the hassle of over filling with the top of your main tanks being higher than the aux tank. I see there is room behind that tank for a water tank potentially. I know it is a bit of a pain to remove the filler neck but if you did you could fill both that main and aux tanks from that one point.
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Thanks Dave, the picture is a bit deceptive - the top of the vehicle tank is actually about midway up the aux tank, so I wouldn't like to risk fuel seeping out the top of the vehicle tank where the fuel gauge, inlet and outlet etc enter the tank. I have an auxiliary fuel pump which thanks to your suggestion will feed into that little plate. I have added wiring that will automatically switch off the aux pump when the right tank is three-quarters full.
And yes, I have (had) two 90 litre water tanks behind the fuel tank. They are heading back to Brisbane to get faulty threads repaired.....
Last week I drove up to Queensland to collect the fibreglass sandwich panels, so hopefully can start the build soon. Everything takes longer than we think!
Cheers, Paul
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In case there is interest I just installed the 296 filters into the existing water seperators. Just a couple of longer bolts required and the two filters. Works a treat.
:)