Author Topic: Bridge plate  (Read 7108 times)

Will

  • Guest
Bridge plate
« on: October 11, 2012, 03:31:45 PM »
Gday all,

Was wondering about the possible originality of a bridge plate I have. It is painted the right colour, doesnt have  number or anything like that, and is simply cut from a piece a flat sheet metal. It doesnt have a "rolled" edge like the majority i have seen in photos etc.

Did the army simply make some bridge plates if they had ran out of the standard issue, or have i got hold of a backyard addition?

It is on a 2A.

Any opinions much appreciated, thanks! 

Offline FFRMAN

  • REMLR Committee
  • Veteran
  • ***
  • Posts: 2797
  • THANKS 207
  • Location: Western Vic.
  • REMLR No: 314
Re: Bridge plate
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2012, 05:41:25 PM »
Yep, sometimes just flat disc of gal sheet metal. My 2A workshop is like that, and one both my No5 trailers

Cheers
Lots...............
VMVC 251,

Offline cookey

  • REMLR Inc
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 144
  • THANKS 57
  • ex-crafty
  • Location: sydney
  • REMLR No: 356
Re: Bridge plate
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2012, 05:59:31 PM »
Note item 16 for details of bridge plates.

http://www.remlr.com/photos/ssshed/amf_voi/man_pt8_106.jpg


Cookey
lost count

Offline FFRMAN

  • REMLR Committee
  • Veteran
  • ***
  • Posts: 2797
  • THANKS 207
  • Location: Western Vic.
  • REMLR No: 314
Re: Bridge plate
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2012, 07:11:33 PM »
Note item 16 for details of bridge plates.

http://www.remlr.com/photos/ssshed/amf_voi/man_pt8_106.jpg


Cookey

? not sure of the relevance to the original question.
Lots...............
VMVC 251,

Offline aussiegregmac

  • REMLR Inc
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 943
  • THANKS 97
  • Location: Esk Qld
  • REMLR No: 384
Re: Bridge plate
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2012, 07:52:00 PM »
Flat plate of steel especially used on No 5 trailers etc.
Have seen some on older vehicles (eg Series 2 and 2A)

Come to think of it, how many smaller vehicles can you remember actually having
a tonnage painted on since the sixties and seventies ??
Greg

1942 C15 Blitz RadioVan 42-CMP "The PieVan"
1960 Series2 FFW 111-515  "The Woodcutter"
1991 Perentie RFSV 51-699  "Berzerker"
1996 Perentie INF 6x6 202-189 "The Walrus"

Offline cookey

  • REMLR Inc
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 144
  • THANKS 57
  • ex-crafty
  • Location: sydney
  • REMLR No: 356
Re: Bridge plate
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2012, 08:06:53 PM »
Just pointing out that bridge plates as such are not mentioned in the following instructions.

http://www.remlr.com/photos/ssshed/amf_voi/man_main_title.jpg

Part 8

http://www.remlr.com/photos/ssshed/amf_voi/man_xi.jpg

Chapter 41

http://www.remlr.com/photos/ssshed/amf_voi/man_pt8_103.jpg

Item 16 

http://www.remlr.com/photos/ssshed/amf_voi/man_pt8_106.jpg


As a matter of fact, this Instruction simply states that Bridge Classification Signs are to have figures three inches high, black on a yellow circular background of six inches diameter located on the offside front of the vehicle.

It does not mention BWP's at all.

Have you ever measured the diameter of a BWP?  They are certainly larger than the stated six inches.

In my experience many vehicles simply had the Bridge Weight Classification painted either directly onto the vehicle, or onto a circular flat plate attached to the vehicle. At the same time others (notably Series 2a and No. 5 trailers) had British BWP's fitted.

So I guess that it doesn't really matter.

Cookey



lost count

Offline fc101

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 522
  • THANKS 49
  • Location: Canberra
  • REMLR No: 243
Re: Bridge plate
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2012, 08:42:25 PM »
Just pointing out that bridge plates as such are not mentioned in the following instructions.

http://www.remlr.com/photos/ssshed/amf_voi/man_main_title.jpg

Part 8

http://www.remlr.com/photos/ssshed/amf_voi/man_xi.jpg

Chapter 41

http://www.remlr.com/photos/ssshed/amf_voi/man_pt8_103.jpg

Item 16 

http://www.remlr.com/photos/ssshed/amf_voi/man_pt8_106.jpg


As a matter of fact, this Instruction simply states that Bridge Classification Signs are to have figures three inches high, black on a yellow circular background of six inches diameter located on the offside front of the vehicle.

It does not mention BWP's at all.

Have you ever measured the diameter of a BWP?  They are certainly larger than the stated six inches.

In my experience many vehicles simply had the Bridge Weight Classification painted either directly onto the vehicle, or onto a circular flat plate attached to the vehicle. At the same time others (notably Series 2a and No. 5 trailers) had British BWP's fitted.

So I guess that it doesn't really matter.

Cookey

Of course 101s do not have have plates as such but a round piece of stick on contact adhesive.

Offline FFRMAN

  • REMLR Committee
  • Veteran
  • ***
  • Posts: 2797
  • THANKS 207
  • Location: Western Vic.
  • REMLR No: 314
Re: Bridge plate
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2012, 08:49:09 PM »
OK understand, the plate as such is almost irrelevant, it's more the determined size numbers (3") on yellow circular background (6") /front offside of vehicle(paint circle or a plate),

But,

BWP seem to be 9", and on 2A's seem to on the near side (passenger/curb) and No5 trailer trailers on the offside (driver/road side) ...........
Lots...............
VMVC 251,

Offline cookey

  • REMLR Inc
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 144
  • THANKS 57
  • ex-crafty
  • Location: sydney
  • REMLR No: 356
Re: Bridge plate
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2012, 09:48:09 PM »
I have a feeling that the British BWP's as we know them originated with the Austin Champs and Humbers. Maybe were carried over to Land Rovers, etc.
However, they certainly do not comply with the AMF Vehicle Operating Instructions issued in the early 60's.
I am not aware of any EMEI that would authorise the fitting of them, but that certainly doesn't mean there wasn't one.
Note also that the Inters usually had a yellow disc 8" in diameter with the number(s) 4 1/2" high, on the off side front.
Personally, I think if it looks good and is in proportion then so be it.
If it was that way when in service then it is certainly original.
Perhaps another member can shed more light on the subject.


Cookey
lost count

Offline zulu delta 534

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 247
  • THANKS 99
  • Location: Loganlea
  • REMLR No: 226
Re: Bridge plate
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2012, 10:50:18 AM »
This Bridge Weight Disc discussions seems to be veering a bit off course. The VOI's that are quoted in REMLR are the instructions that replaced SOVOS (Standing Orders for Vehicle Operating and Servicing) that were in place during the era of S2 and S2as.
Hodgo possibly still has a copy of these somewhere.
All bridges in a military operational zone are checked over by Army Engineers and allocated a safe weight limit (per span) before vehicular access is permitted, and this SWL is printed on a yellow disc and nailed to a post on either approach to the particular bridge. This practice goes back to at least WWll and I don't know how much before that. Now whether this was one of the standard issue plates that were sourced from the Brits as part and parcel of a delivery (FV266818) or, if there were no official plates on hand, perhaps a tin lid or whatever, it didn't really matter as long as the classification was shown in a uniform way that was instantly recognisable by the intending "crossee", that is a yellow disc with a number on it. If it didn't have a yellow disc displayed on it, don't drive over it!
The minimum weight classification that is deemed suitable for vehicular traffic is three tons, and should a bridge fall under that limit it is put off limits until an alternative crossing can be put in place, or the existing bridge upgraded.. A Land Rover, even carrying its maximum allowable load does not exceed this minimum weight therefore a disc is really superfluous on these light vehicles, but because SOVOS said that they must be fitted they were. There was no reason to apply a number to the Disc and as a result the majority of light vehicles did not display numbers at all. There are always exceptions to any rule and there are always personal interpretations that read things differently therefore there are a number of photographs that will show the number 3 or sometimes even a 2 displayed on discs. From a transport NCO's view I can only say, "why"?


Another exception to this rule of showing bridge classification signs were the tipping teaspoons we operated in SVN in the early years. They were treated as an 8 ton limit similar to the Mk3's but even when originally received onto our books they were never fitted with discs, 'stick on' or plates.


The responsibility of bridge crossings in this case would have started around about the Ops Officer level, then the Transport NCO then lastly of course the poor old driver.
This next shot shows the result of not noting bridge classification correctly and in this particular case with some rather drastic results. Firstly the Yanks shot the poor old Noggy who was in charge of the bridge for allowing them to go on whereas in actual fact I think I would have shot the driver for even thinking about it It was a twelve ton bridge and the towed vehicle was a five tonner with a bridge classification of 12, therefore its tare was near on 7 tons and the wrecker had a 17 ton classification, so all up it was pretty obvious it exceeded the weight limit.


An interesting sideline (well, to me anyway), is that in the seventies I used to race round and round Central Australia in a tourist coach and never took much notice of the bridges on the northern part of the Stuart Highway until one day someone pointed out that they had been built by the Commonwealth Construction Corps during WWll and had to have a minimum rating of 5 tons. In the late seventies some of these original bridges were still in use and being used daily by "triple" road trains and still stood the test of time. All bridging classification discs had long since been removed, and the bridges more than likely reassessed by civvy engineers.
The next shot is of an old WWll Federal 20 ton prime mover and you will note that the bridge classification stencil in this case notes both the tare and the loaded weights.


Hope this hasn't been too distracting from the original discussion.
Regards
Glen


« Last Edit: October 13, 2012, 10:42:17 AM by zulu delta 534 »

Will

  • Guest
Re: Bridge plate
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2012, 11:23:17 AM »
You guys are all a wealth of knowledge, almost frightening  ;)

So I am assuming that the bridge plate i have could be original, and in any case will do the job nicely. It has been painted olive drab on the front and back but the area of the bridge plate that was against the vehicle is still the original yellow. Im not sure if it has a number on it, but after reading the feedback im assuming an 88" wouldnt require a number due to its obvious size.

Does anyone know the name of the colour paint used on these plates? I would like to get it looking right. And, if a number is required for originallity purposes what would it be?

Thanks once again! Will

Offline aussiegregmac

  • REMLR Inc
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 943
  • THANKS 97
  • Location: Esk Qld
  • REMLR No: 384
Re: Bridge plate
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2012, 12:19:06 PM »
Don't know the paint number but you couldn't go wrong with a spray can of SIGNAL YELLOW

Great photos again Glen.  You must have a very large family alBUM.
Greg

1942 C15 Blitz RadioVan 42-CMP "The PieVan"
1960 Series2 FFW 111-515  "The Woodcutter"
1991 Perentie RFSV 51-699  "Berzerker"
1996 Perentie INF 6x6 202-189 "The Walrus"

Offline cookey

  • REMLR Inc
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 144
  • THANKS 57
  • ex-crafty
  • Location: sydney
  • REMLR No: 356
Re: Bridge plate
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2012, 04:51:34 PM »
But,

BWP seem to be 9", and on 2A's seem to on the near side (passenger/curb) and No5 trailer trailers on the offside (driver/road side) ...........


Thinking about this I imagine that the reason the BWP's were fitted to the n/s guard on Landies could be because the blackout lamp was already in place on the front of the o/s guard.

Cookey
lost count

Offline fc101

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 522
  • THANKS 49
  • Location: Canberra
  • REMLR No: 243
Re: Bridge plate
« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2016, 07:50:09 PM »
An old topic that talks about the size of plates and numbers.

Where can I find the decode of the letters and numbers mean.

My 101 has

C
5

I copied it from a pic of an inservice 101 but have no idea what the C over 5 actually means other than I think one indicates speed and the other weight.

Thanks

Garry

Offline fc101

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 522
  • THANKS 49
  • Location: Canberra
  • REMLR No: 243
Re: Bridge plate
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2016, 10:08:41 PM »
So no one has a decode for the numbers and letters on bridge plates?