Mk5 swivel hub seals

[Bundy]

Hey STDDIVER,
                      How did you go with John, were you able to secure a set of hub seals. I'm still having trouble finding a set.
Would anyone else have any ideas where to find a set?? Starting to think I may have to look in to get a set made some how

[STDDIVER]

G'day  Bundy - I have heard nothing from John so far.  As soon as I hear something I will let you know.

Cheers   Frank

[Bundy]

Hey Frank,
               No worries. If you are unable to secure any I am looking in to a couple rubber moulding companies that may be able to manufacture some.
I'll keep you informed.

[STDDIVER]

 Great one Bundy - I have a heap of the threaded steel part of the seals that I have changed out  With new rubber seals fitted they could be good to go again.  If anything happens I'll let you know'

Cheers   Frank 

[Bundy]

Hey Frank,
               The swivel hub seal I am looking at getting made is a rubber sealing ring about 200mm across and about 25mm wide and fits to the round stirring knuckle of the front axle. I think you are talking about the hub bearing nut with the rubber seal attached to it, do you also need the swivel hub seal?
I will ask if they are able to rebond rubber to steel for your hub nuts.
I'll let you know how I get on.

Bundy.

[Richard Farrant]

               The swivel hub seal I am looking at getting made is a rubber sealing ring about 200mm across and about 25mm wide and fits to the round stirring knuckle of the front axle.

Sometime ago, someone mentioned that front axle swivel components on AACO's were the same as a Bedford RL. I came across these seals a couple of years ago on a stall at Corowa, thinking they were Bedford (I am very familiar with them have renewed countless ones over the years). The part number on the bag did not look like Bedford, asked the stallholder and he said "Inter". Now having looked at a Inter manual, I am convinced these are identical to Bedford ones. Just so you are aware, this same part number seal was used by Bedford from 1941 (on the QL), through the RL and finally the MK/MJ trucks. With some of these being used in the past by rural fire brigades, etc. it might be another avenue to pursue for seals. Someone must know if the swivel components are exact copies of Bedford parts. There are two half circle brass spring leafs to hold the seal lip on  to the spherical housing too.

Here is one on Ebay, for reference;

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bedford-RL-M-Series-4x4-Front-Axle-Tracta-Joint-Seal-Bedford-6350119-/292211327176?epid=1724733269&hash=item44092700c8:g:Sf0AAOSwo4pYMyOd

regards, Richard

[STDDIVER]

Thanks Richard - Very helpful -
Frank

[Ravvin]

I just had a look at my front swivel seals.
They have both started leaking, now that I have moved the truck a few times. Hopefully they just need pulling off and a bit of a clean.



Looking at the pic, I noticed that they have 11 bolts holding the retainer in place. The Bedford one shown on Ebay has 6, so might be a bit different.
The retainer with the fingers for the Bedford is in 2 pieces, with 3 holes in each. The MK3 Workshop manual says the Inter ones are in 2 pieces also, but I think they will have 11 holes to match the outer retainer. The outer ring that holds everything together on the Bedfords has 12 holes.

I've actually changed one, but it was over 20 years ago and I just can't remember the details. I am pretty sure that the rubber seal was cut across on a 45° angle so you could get it on without major disassembly, but that's all I can recall.

Greg.

[dugite]

To ameliorate the "leaking swivel" situation, Land Rover changed from 80/90weight oil to a thin grease. Many LR Series owners have adopted this procedure. I wouldn't know if it is appropriate for IH swivels but it sure lessens the leakage problem on a LR.

It obviously shouldn't be used when selective locking hubs are installed

[Richard Farrant]

Looking at the pic, I noticed that they have 11 bolts holding the retainer in place. The Bedford one shown on Ebay has 6, so might be a bit different.
The retainer with the fingers for the Bedford is in 2 pieces, with 3 holes in each. The MK3 Workshop manual says the Inter ones are in 2 pieces also, but I think they will have 11 holes to match the outer retainer. The outer ring that holds everything together on the Bedfords has 12 holes.

I've actually changed one, but it was over 20 years ago and I just can't remember the details. I am pretty sure that the rubber seal was cut across on a 45° angle so you could get it on without major disassembly, but that's all I can recall.

Greg.

Hi Greg,
The bolts only go through the retaining ring. The holes you see in the Bedford seal on Ebay are for the dowel pins attached to the steel ring which locate the spring leaf and seal, hence you only seeing 6 holes. Take a look in the Inter manual and you will see the build up. If these seals are the same it could be an answer to your problem.

regards, Richard

[303Gunner]

Land Rover changed from 80/90weight oil to a thin grease.

It obviously shouldn't be used when selective locking hubs are installed

Could you explain to some (me!  ) who don't see the obvious?

Most other brand 4wds use grease within the front hubs and CVs and have no problems with their locking hubs.

[Ravvin]

Have yet to see one of these Inters with locking hubs.

Thanks Richard. The Inter manual is not very clear with it's drawings of the swivel hubs.
I might pull one of the front hub seals apart if the weather is good this weekend and get some accurate measurements and detailed pics so I can compare them.
What makes it hard is that the Army lists these parts with a Department of Defence part number. As if they made them themselves. There's no way to look up a compatible part by number.
Referring back to the NSN number, it looks like it was also available as a Dana seal, part number 044056, which I can't seem to find on their website. I might send them an email and check if they still make them.

Greg.

[Richard Farrant]

Have yet to see one of these Inters with locking hubs.

Thanks Richard. The Inter manual is not very clear with it's drawings of the swivel hubs.
I might pull one of the front hub seals apart if the weather is good this weekend and get some accurate measurements and detailed pics so I can compare them.
What makes it hard is that the Army lists these parts with a Department of Defence part number. As if they made them themselves. There's no way to look up a compatible part by number.
Referring back to the NSN number, it looks like it was also available as a Dana seal, part number 044056, which I can't seem to find on their website. I might send them an email and check if they still make them.

Greg.

Hi Greg,
If you measure your seal, I will compare with a Bedford one. I think you mentioned the 45 degree cut, this is not as the seal is supplied, it was only done if the spherical housing was not removed from the axle housing. The cut was positioned at the top with some sealer in it.

cheers Richard

[Ravvin]

Now that you mention it, that's exactly what we did.

I'll pull one apart on the weekend and get some measurements.

[Bundy]

Hey guys,
              the reason to my knowledge for the use of oil in the swivel hub instead of grease is the fact that there is no seal between the diff housing and the swivel housing only a brass bush with an oil groove in it to allow oil to lubricate the bush, witch in turn allows oil to move between the two housings under high temps and high driving angles. I have had my swivel hubs completely apart and have seen what happens when diff oil and heavy grease mix, not pretty. It also caused the rubber of the seals to break down and become soft and sticky and leak, witch could have been the type of grease the previous owner used in the hub.
I have an ACCO swivel hub seal on my bench at the moment and it measures approx across 223mm and 25mm wide and about 8mm thick not including the knife edge. The 6 dowel holes in the seal measure centre to centre approx 106mm. I had a look at the Bedford seals on Ebay and they look very similar. If someone has a Bedford seal to check against I'd like to know how close they are.

Bundy.