Author Topic: Series 1 (48) sold to AUSTRALIAN ARMY  (Read 5659 times)

Offline digger

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Series 1 (48) sold to AUSTRALIAN ARMY
« on: May 23, 2012, 09:32:00 PM »
located in "HOW MANY 48'S" thread on AULRO.

there is a list of the 1948's known sold in AUSTRALIA...

http://www.lrsoc.com/forum/forum_files/AUSforum.pdf

third from bottom...
Chassis no          date in (dealer)       date out (to buyer)    dealer                                 buyer                          Assembled/CKD                      current status..
R862994         + 16/02/1949              16/02/1949               Regent mtrs melb               Australian Army + + + CKD                                         Lost

also in that list are a few sold to soldiers (one to a Capt, one to a Lt)
(remlr 235 / MVCA 9)*88"-'63 .S2A--c6005  x 2-"Horrie"-112-769, & "The Vet"-112-429(-Vietnam-PRE 1ATF '65)
(unnamed)--109"--'56 .S1 (ute)(future project --88"--'66--S2A-as UN CIVPOL.) 80"-49,53 PARTS, 80"-50,52 , 1 x 109 s3, "Hans" 1 x 88 s3, AND 1 X 110 - 2012 "BEAR"

Offline Phoenix

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Re: Series 1 (48) sold to AUSTRALIAN ARMY
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2012, 08:54:11 AM »
First one on the series 1 ARN page ;)

http://remlr.com/ARN/ARNseries1.php
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Offline Diana Alan

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Re: Series 1 (48) sold to AUSTRALIAN ARMY
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2013, 12:59:55 PM »
This first 80" was later converted to a Holden grey engine for trials of the engine. It was conducted alongside the tropical trials the Australian Testing Establishment conducted on the B40 engine for the Brits. I don't think there was any intention to make the Holden conversion a standard conversion in Land Rover, they merely used the 80" as a test bed for it.

I sent the trials report to REMLR its in the files.
REMLR 240.
Perentie FFR 50-422, SIII FFR 30-146, SIIA GunBuggy 112-726, Mk3 Inter 170-437, ex-SADF SIIB/SIII Radio Relay,
Army Trailers: No5 x 2, W/S x 2, PT1-1.2, Horndraulic ATR dog trailer.
Civilian: MY85 RRc HiLine 4.6, MY51 ex-RACQ 80", MY91 Defender/Reynolds Boughton 6x6, MY12 D4 SDV6

Offline Mike C

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Re: Series 1 (48) sold to AUSTRALIAN ARMY
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2013, 02:54:51 AM »
Mixed into that lot somewhere will be the 12 (at least) Series 1 that were purchased by the Department of Supply and delivered during the first half of 1949. They had registrations in the C-58778 and C-59868/C-59879 ranges, but I've never seen any references that list their chassis numbers. The first mentioned was configured with a solid rear canopy and fitted out as a mobile workshop. Eleven, including the workshop, were fitted 'post-purchase' with 9.00x13 sand tyres. I wonder if the vehicles were supplied by Regents Motors, as was the Army purchase?

The Holden engine Series 1 in Army service was registration 153952. It has an interesting history.

Then there's the one (Dept of Supply) left on the Monte Bello Islands after the bomb tests: it's remains are probably still glowing!

Mike C

Offline bobslandies

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Re: Series 1 (48) sold to AUSTRALIAN ARMY
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2013, 08:30:21 PM »
Mixed into that lot somewhere will be the 12 (at least) Series 1 that were purchased by the Department of Supply and delivered during the first half of 1949. They had registrations in the C-58778 and C-59868/C-59879 ranges, but I've never seen any references that list their chassis numbers. The first mentioned was configured with a solid rear canopy and fitted out as a mobile workshop. Eleven, including the workshop, were fitted 'post-purchase' with 9.00x13 sand tyres. I wonder if the vehicles were supplied by Regents Motors, as was the Army purchase?

The Holden engine Series 1 in Army service was registration 153952. It has an interesting history.

Then there's the one (Dept of Supply) left on the Monte Bello Islands after the bomb tests: it's remains are probably still glowing!

Mike C

Hi Mike,

The following ten 1949 80" Land Rovers -Chassis Nos. R8664843, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 53, 54, 55, 56 arrived in Sydney on 23.6.49 and were supplied by Grenville Motors to the Dept of Supply and Dev. on 15.7.49. Could this be some of them?

There were a  number of others to Department of External Territories.

Bob

Offline digger

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Re: Series 1 (48) sold to AUSTRALIAN ARMY
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2013, 10:55:25 PM »
Mixed into that lot somewhere will be the 12 (at least) Series 1 that were purchased by the Department of Supply and delivered during the first half of 1949. They had registrations in the C-58778 and C-59868/C-59879 ranges, but I've never seen any references that list their chassis numbers. The first mentioned was configured with a solid rear canopy and fitted out as a mobile workshop. Eleven, including the workshop, were fitted 'post-purchase' with 9.00x13 sand tyres. I wonder if the vehicles were supplied by Regents Motors, as was the Army purchase?

The Holden engine Series 1 in Army service was registration 153952. It has an interesting history.

Then there's the one (Dept of Supply) left on the Monte Bello Islands after the bomb tests: it's remains are probably still glowing!
Mike C

Google Earth,
2023'26.42"S   (lat)
11533'33.23"E (long)


would this be that landrover?

Seems so lonely there :(
(remlr 235 / MVCA 9)*88"-'63 .S2A--c6005  x 2-"Horrie"-112-769, & "The Vet"-112-429(-Vietnam-PRE 1ATF '65)
(unnamed)--109"--'56 .S1 (ute)(future project --88"--'66--S2A-as UN CIVPOL.) 80"-49,53 PARTS, 80"-50,52 , 1 x 109 s3, "Hans" 1 x 88 s3, AND 1 X 110 - 2012 "BEAR"

Offline Mike C

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Re: Series 1 (48) sold to AUSTRALIAN ARMY
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2013, 02:46:28 AM »
Could be, Bob: but I have not been able to match any chassis numbers to these registrations as yet.

Mike C

Offline Diana Alan

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Re: Series 1 (48) sold to AUSTRALIAN ARMY
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2013, 11:42:07 AM »
Some scanned images from the photocopied report (sorry for the quality)

The Holden converted Rover was using a very small radiator, prob ex-Holden 48-215 as the front cross member was not modified and the bonnet was not lifted etc. so the engine experienced a lot of overheating issues.

The Holden 80" has the ARN 153 952 painted onto the sides of the bonnet, same as the GPW used to have.  The B40 81" can be identified by the presence of the trafficators on the edges of the windscreen and the diamond on the front mudguards.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2013, 11:45:17 AM by Diana Alan »
REMLR 240.
Perentie FFR 50-422, SIII FFR 30-146, SIIA GunBuggy 112-726, Mk3 Inter 170-437, ex-SADF SIIB/SIII Radio Relay,
Army Trailers: No5 x 2, W/S x 2, PT1-1.2, Horndraulic ATR dog trailer.
Civilian: MY85 RRc HiLine 4.6, MY51 ex-RACQ 80", MY91 Defender/Reynolds Boughton 6x6, MY12 D4 SDV6

Tommy

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Re: Series 1 (48) sold to AUSTRALIAN ARMY
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2013, 11:57:18 AM »
Great photos Diana :). I've never seen those before.

What did the large white 'X' designate? Even the Humber? in photo #1 has one.

Offline Diana Alan

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Re: Series 1 (48) sold to AUSTRALIAN ARMY
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2013, 01:27:14 PM »
eXperimental branch.

At that time called the "Army Testing Establishment", Monegeeta.

You see the X tac on lots of the Army trials vehicles, it seems that only the Perentie trials got their own tac.

The trials of the Land Rover SIIa F/C below.


Some more images from the report.  If you notice 153 952 has the civilian tow plate, to replicate the one on a tractor.  The Brit Army vehicles did not have this fitting and from the mid 1950 model it was a bolt on option instead of a welded fitting.  Th probably accounts for the Holden LR getting bogged in the Gilbert River.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2013, 01:39:52 PM by Diana Alan »
REMLR 240.
Perentie FFR 50-422, SIII FFR 30-146, SIIA GunBuggy 112-726, Mk3 Inter 170-437, ex-SADF SIIB/SIII Radio Relay,
Army Trailers: No5 x 2, W/S x 2, PT1-1.2, Horndraulic ATR dog trailer.
Civilian: MY85 RRc HiLine 4.6, MY51 ex-RACQ 80", MY91 Defender/Reynolds Boughton 6x6, MY12 D4 SDV6

Offline Phoenix

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Re: Series 1 (48) sold to AUSTRALIAN ARMY
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2013, 02:12:49 PM »
I think the report and photos did make the prototypes and trials page on remlr

http://remlr.com/1_80trial.html

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Eden - 1961 Series 2 Ambulance, 108-098

Offline Phoenix

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Re: Series 1 (48) sold to AUSTRALIAN ARMY
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2013, 02:13:09 PM »
Actually the report did not, I will have to upload it!
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Offline Diana Alan

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Re: Series 1 (48) sold to AUSTRALIAN ARMY
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2013, 02:56:27 PM »
I have seen an original copy of the B40 test, but do not have one myself.

Perhaps someone in Melbourne can go the the National Archives office down there where it's held and get a copy and even high resolution photos or scans of the images?

If you request it online, you only get a photocopy and you lose resolution of the images (as above).  (The document should be within series MT810/1 with control symbol close to TI 1515 - the original trials of the 80" should be around TI 1330 to TI 1450)

Diana

« Last Edit: October 14, 2013, 04:00:24 PM by Diana Alan »
REMLR 240.
Perentie FFR 50-422, SIII FFR 30-146, SIIA GunBuggy 112-726, Mk3 Inter 170-437, ex-SADF SIIB/SIII Radio Relay,
Army Trailers: No5 x 2, W/S x 2, PT1-1.2, Horndraulic ATR dog trailer.
Civilian: MY85 RRc HiLine 4.6, MY51 ex-RACQ 80", MY91 Defender/Reynolds Boughton 6x6, MY12 D4 SDV6

Offline Mike C

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Re: Series 1 (48) sold to AUSTRALIAN ARMY
« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2013, 03:17:24 AM »
I think the NAA series is MT801. (ie 'Melbourne Temporary 801), not 810.

At the time indicated by the Test Instruction (TI) numbers, the title of Monegeeta was: Department of Supply, Design and Inspection Branch, Design Establishment, Trials and Proving Wing, Monegeeta. It was not part of the Australian Army, but the Dept of Supply. The name does tend to alter a bit during the late 40s and 1950s, but the essential thing is that it was Dept of Supply, with Army personnel on posting.

During the war years, it was Dept of the Army, Master General of the Ordnance Design Division, Mechanization Experimental Establishment (MGO  MEE), then later (immediate post war) it is referred to as the Dept of Supply, Army Branch, Trials and Proving Wing, Technical Services Establishment (when the TIs were in the 1400s and low 1500s).

'X' was simply the sub-unit tactical sign of a trials vehicle while assigned to T&PW, Monegeeta or at Maribyrnong, or at TTU, or whereever. It possibly does stand for 'experimental', but I've not seen anything official to support that, and tend to think it was simply a unique and obvious marking to indicate a test vehicle.  The Brits appear to have used a stylized 'T' (test or trial, perhaps?)

When/if issued to Army for Troop Trials, the vehicle was given a Unit sign/sub-unit tactical sign corresponding with the Unit concerned/conducting the trials. By the time of the L/R 110, the Dept of Supply were long gone, and the testing was all done by Army, hence I'd suggest the use of unit signs and sub-unit tactical markings on the trials vehicles.

NAA no longer photocopy: they scan, and at a resolution too low for reasonable reproduction in print. If you request and pay for a copy online, the report and the images within the report will be made available to all on line, and the images could be 'lifted' from there for screen display if desired. Most of the reports you refer to were opened pre-scanning/pre-digital era (in the 80s and 90s), so if you want a scanned copy up on line in Recordsearch, it has to be paid for. Current rate is about $20 a file, so it can get pretty expensive pretty quickly, I can assure you! There are currently 1026 reports listed under MT801/1, but only 6 are digitized and available on line, including TI1762: the 1/4 ton truck trials of 1958 (M38A1, Willys jeep, Land Rover Series 2, etc)

Mike C

Offline Diana Alan

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Re: Series 1 (48) sold to AUSTRALIAN ARMY
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2013, 09:19:23 AM »
Thansk Miek

it seesm my left ahnd gets in frnot fo my rgith at tiems!  ;D

It is MT801,

I may request a new scan of the TI1515.

Daina  :)


REMLR 240.
Perentie FFR 50-422, SIII FFR 30-146, SIIA GunBuggy 112-726, Mk3 Inter 170-437, ex-SADF SIIB/SIII Radio Relay,
Army Trailers: No5 x 2, W/S x 2, PT1-1.2, Horndraulic ATR dog trailer.
Civilian: MY85 RRc HiLine 4.6, MY51 ex-RACQ 80", MY91 Defender/Reynolds Boughton 6x6, MY12 D4 SDV6