Author Topic: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck  (Read 58948 times)

Offline Ravvin

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #315 on: February 24, 2019, 11:17:08 AM »
Hi all.
So far this season, I don't seem to have gotten anything useful done.
I'm still working on getting the generator going so I can tack weld the chassis rail layers together,.
Today I had a go using a wet sanding attachment on the Karcher to clean the loose paint and rust out of the inside face of the chassis rails so I can give it all a coat of epoxy paint.
The wet blasting attachment replaces the regular spear on a Karcher water blaster. It has a hose with a spear that you stick in your bucket of dry sand.
I have to say, it may be ok for doing small items a few inches in size, but its near useless for what I want it to do.
After about 20 minutes, I had cleaned a patch about 6" high by a foot long, and used a whole 10L bucket of sand, which I then had to clean off everything with the regular attachment.
From what I can see, the nozzle allows too much water through, reducing the pressure of the flow and velocity of the sand going to the job.
My pressure washer is on the list of models that they recommend for this attachment, so I guess its just not meant to do what I want to do with it.
I think I will just have to go back to using the grinder with the wire cup brushes and flat wire wheel attachment and then use the wet blaster on the little corners that I can't easily get into.
It's all a wet sandy bog out there now, so I will leave it to dry out and start on the wire-wheeling or maybe the welding if I can get the welder, next weekend.

Greg.

Offline STDDIVER

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #316 on: February 25, 2019, 12:49:51 PM »
Hi Greg- As I read your post I agree it is disappointing that some products create ideas that they are better than they are.  I have hired a commercial sand pot and compressor for a weekend and sometimes you can get these at very competitive rates.   ;)   With a good blasting plant, including mask and breathing system you can achieve a lot in a day or two - I did my F1 and two land rover chassis and a lot of parts in a day.  I set the job up on hard concrete base and put a wire frame with shade cloth behind the truck and parts to restrict the spread of garnet and used an industrial vacuum cleaner to collect the used garnet, filtered it through more shade cloth to keep out the chipped paint pieces and used it over again and again.  Being lazy I had an old wheelie chair which I use to sit on to do those areas you have to bend over to reach and a garage creeper to get to the underneath areas.  With the wheels and boxes removed most places were reasonably accessible.   The grit gets everywhere believe me!  I was getting fine grit out of my hair the next day after two showers.  A good quality airless spray gun means that you blast, blow, spray as you go and the finish is impressive.  I am sure you are across all of this though.  With any project keeping the high standards is always very hard but your vehicle is exceptional and from where it is now from where you started is a testimony to your patience, smarts and hard work.

Keep up the good work!
Frank

Offline 4x4-581

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #317 on: March 17, 2019, 12:12:51 PM »
How do you post your pictures?

Offline Ravvin

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #318 on: March 17, 2019, 02:53:52 PM »
I host all my pics on a Smugmug account and then paste in a link here. If you resize your pics, you should be able to upload them in your post without needing a host.


Offline Ravvin

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #319 on: March 17, 2019, 03:13:46 PM »
Well, I have been doing a bit each weekend lately.
I have the insides of the driver's side chassis rail cleaned back with a wire wheel and cup brush, and I have painted the inside, top and outside with Surface Tolerant Epoxy.
Just need to clean and paint the section from where the double chassis ends and the back of the truck. And the underside of the chassis rail.
I replaced the 12 bolts that hold the rear axle assembly to the chassis on the driver's side. That took a bit. They were really stuck in the chassis.
They are in 3 groups of 4, so I would remove one group, clean the area and also the hole through the chassis, paint it, fit new bolts and then paint them also.
I replaced the old bolts with high tensile ones and used spring washers as well as lock-nuts, just to be sure.



As you can see, they seem to have either replaced a few with whatever they had on hand, or never had the correct bolts in the first place. You can see the wear on the 2 UNC bolts at the front.
There are 2 crossmembers at the back, under the plate that the winch fairlead is bolted to. These crossmembers are shaped like a really heavy duty section of C channel and the bottom was filled to the top with dirt.
There was pretty heavy rust spalling under the dirt, which I scraped out, but I still need to wire wheel it and give it a hit with rust converter before giving it a good coat of epoxy. It's just a bad design, as there is nowhere for the dust and dirt to go, other than into the channel.
With that cleaned out, I can paint it all and work back up the passenger side chassis rails. I'm looking forward to finishing this part, but then I have to give the epoxy a light sand so the primer will stick, prime it all and then give it a coat of olive drab.
With that all done, I can see about getting a hand to clamp and tack weld the chassis rail lips together, paint them and then I can drop the transfer case and winch back in. Easy. :)

Greg.

Offline Ravvin

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #320 on: April 22, 2019, 03:08:40 PM »
Well, I got more done, with the long weekend and decent weather.
The 2 crossmembers at the back, under the plate for the winch rollers, was heavily rusted where the dirt built up.



You can see some of the heavy rust spalling and pits where I cleaned some out. I couldn't get the wire wheel or cup brush in there, so I tried heating it with the Oxy/LPG torch.
The chunks of rust changed to a sort of powdery stuff and turned to dust when I used a wire brush on it. After a couple of goes doing this, nothing more was coming off and it looked like good solid metal.



I gave everything a coat with rust converter, just in case I missed any with the Oxy, but nothing showed up.
I neutralised the rust converter and gave everything a coat of black epoxy.



The remaining old bolts through the chassis rails were removed, the holes cleaned out and painted, then new bolts fitted, tightened up and painted.



I also dropped off the massive towbar they had fitted to it and also took off the plates with the trailer air connections and the rear bumpers. I'll give these a good sandblasting and painting before they go back on.
Once the epoxy has had a decent time to cure, I'll sand it and paint it all olive drab, before refitting the plate that holds the winch pulleys and fairlead rollers. There's lots of smaller parts like this that I can clean up and repaint over the winter, as they can cure in the front sun-room, as it is pretty warm right through winter.

Greg.

Offline Ravvin

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #321 on: September 25, 2019, 06:43:34 PM »
Right, time for an update.
I haven't gotten anything done over winter. It's just too cold and wet to muck about outside and expect to be productive.
But its started to warm up and the boss insisted I have some time off. Whiny contractors complaining about me, I think.

Anyway, I started off by getting a new toy.



I have one of those Nielsen TV monitoring boxes that sends them data on what the cat is watching. I realised it had been on for a while and it turned out I had $300 worth of credit to cash in.
Because of that, the rattle gun cost me $68. It should be really useful for shearing off hard to move bolts.

Next, I started chasing around for a decent generator. I need to do some welding on the chassis rails and its too far to run extension leads out from the house. That, and the house wiring would likely melt and burn the place down. I found a really poorly worded fOR sELl ad on Facebook Marketplace. The spelling and the fact it was on Facebook should have been a tip-off. I hate the thing, but have to have an account for work as a lot of landowners with small areas of plantation seem to use it. Anyway, the ad was for a 3 phase & normal power generator for $400. 2 pics, both the same. No other info and 2 and a half hours drive away from me. After sending 4 messages asking for info and whether I could come have a look and not getting any reply, I found another person, totally different name but same pic and location, listing it for $500. Contacted him and immediately got told it was sold already. I mentioned the other listing and he said it was his now estranged ex trying to flog off his gear before he could move it all. Just what you need.

The next was a Gumtree ad for a 5.9kva generator, only 45 mins drive away from me. This one replied after I sent 2 messages over 2 days, and just said it was still for sale. No address or other info like details of the generator or other contact info. After another 2 days and 3 messages, I gave up on him.
Finally, I spotted another Gumtree ad, just over a half hour drive away and this one showed what seemed to be a Mitsubishi engine and a Modra generator. The pic shows the Modra generators were a Western Australian company. The initial pics in the ad were a bit unenlightening, but it was 5KVA and should easily run my inverter welder.



This guy actually had his contact number when I logged into Gumtree, so I gave him a ring. He said he was moving house and hadn't used it in ages, so was selling it and other stuff off, as he didn't have a shed at the new place. Poor bugger.
I drove down this morning and he started it up for me and we ran a decent sized cut-off saw off it, so it seemed to be working. I loaded it up and brought it home.
Then the fun began.



As you can see, it had some fuel leaks and it looks like the last oil change was by undoing the drain bolt and letting it run everywhere.
It's an old style pull-start, with a rope with a knot on the end. When he started it for me to see it running, it kicked back once. Nearly clonked me on the head with the big wooden handle as it ripped out of his hand.
I noticed there is a blanking plate on the back of the front housing that seems to be for an electric start. Definitely going to look into that option. I pulled the fuel tank off and drained it. The fuel was old and an odd colour, but there was no rust inside and no sign of water in the glass sight bowl. From what I can see, most of the fuel leaks were from the old cracked fuel line. The line from the tank to the glass bowl was held on with plastic hose clamps and I was able to pull the hose off without loosening them. The hose from the glass bowl to the carb had better wire hose clamps, but the rubber line was cracked and leaking when I turned the fuel tap on. From what I can see, the main leak is from the carb bowl.



It looks like there is a thin cork gasket up there and it has pieces missing. It's very thin, so I'll pull the carb off tomorrow and see if I can get a different seal of some sort. Maybe a square section o'ring sort of thing.
There were a few small rust flakes in the carb bowl, but none of that nasty green gunk that fuel with ethanol seems to leave. The flakes probably came from the glass fuel bowl, as when I cleaned it, I found there was a disk of very fine mesh that would have been a strainer. It was badly rusted and crumbled apart when I tried to remove it. I think I will try to get a small inline filter and put it in the line from the glass bowl to the carb. Just have to make sure the fuel can still flow through it.



The power point is a bit of an afterthought. Its a standard household 15 amp powerpoint, screwed to 2 pieces of flat steel plate that are screwed into the end of the alternator bearing housing. One socket doesn't work and the other one works all the time, regardless of where the switch is.
I went into town and got some new fuel hose, hose clamps, spark plug and a new 15 amp power point and a stand-off plate to move it further out from the alternator so I don't have to trim the corners off to fit it into the shroud. And I just have to say, bugger shopping at proper electrical suppliers. They wanted $73 for a basic 2 gang 15 amp power point and 10mm stand-off. Tried telling me that was what all the tradies used. I'm betting the tradies weren't paying for them for their own use. Off to Bunnings and I got the same thing, different brand, for $18. Even if it doesn't last as long as a Clipsal one, I can replace it another 3 times and still be ahead.

So at this point, I have degreased everything, rinsed the fuel tank out and replaced the fuel lines and spark plug. Tomorrow I will replace the power point, run it a bit to warm it up, then change the oil.
The label on the front of the fuel tank says Norton Villiers G1050 M-73 10.5HP, yet the engine has Mitsubishi on the front cover. I did a quick search and found a copy of the original user manual for the Mitsubishi G1050 and it looks like that's the one, so I have the basic specs and operating instructions, although it looks like the original ignition system has been changed. Norton-Villiers was a British motorcycle maker that seems to have shut down in 1973, so no idea why they have their badge on a Mitsubishi engine. Can't really see it fitting in a bike frame very easily.

Anyway, enough for now. I'll post more once I get it all up and running and will see how it goes powering my welder. Once I get the frame welded I can drop the winch back in and work on the mounting bushings for the transfer case.

Greg.

(Edit) Just realised I forgot this. Got it for $180.  ;D
« Last Edit: September 25, 2019, 06:55:35 PM by Ravvin »

Offline Chazza

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #322 on: September 29, 2019, 08:54:55 AM »
Nice to hear from you again Greg.

Small world! I see that your generator was made in Pilbara St Welshpool, which is where I used to work in the 1980's. I don't remember where Modra was, but there were lots of small workshops all over the place,

Cheers Charlie
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S2A 109" GS '63
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Offline Ravvin

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #323 on: September 29, 2019, 12:29:55 PM »
Yeah, I saw that too. I tried looking them up but there were a lot of different companies with Modra in their names based in WA. The Norton-Villiers mob who possibly made the engine seem to have been bought out around 1973, so the engine side of the generator would have to be around 46 or more years old. No idea on the actual age of the alternator though. I don't think the combination of engine/alternator is original though, as there is a support bracket with anti-vibration damper under the alternator body, but it is almost off the metal plate that makes up the base.

I took the old air filter down to the local mower shop to see if he could find a modern match for it. I told him what it was off, but he had no listing and there was no part number on it. He got the boss to come have a look, and then things got interesting. They trotted off into the back room and started pulling boxes and stuff down, searching. After 5 mins or so, he came back with a big grin. Apparently, years ago, he bought up all the stock when a small country town mechanic's shop closed down. Most of the stuff had no description or part numbers and was just in plastic bags. He had a brand new air filter, and it was an exact match.



He had no idea what it fitted, but held onto it, just in case. I got it for $20. It looks like the modern pleated filters that are used on the Honda 11hp engines, but it actually different. The top end is a metal dished cap, covered in foam/felt. The pleated bits are a sort of felt, not paper. The original user manual says to rinse the filter in petrol or kero to clean it, then let it dry. You then mix up a cup or so of petrol and engine oil in a 2:1 ratio and soak the filter in it. Let it drip dry before reinstalling it and wait until it is totally dry before running the engine. So it may be an early oiled foam filter.

I'm a bit hesitant to oil it though, as it will slowly seep oil and stink of fuel, going by the old one. I would think that as I'll only be running it out in the open away from any dust, that the plain felt pleats would be enough. What do you all think?

When I pulled the carb off, I found that at some time in the past, the float or needle had stuck open and flooded the engine with fuel. When I looked down the throat, there was a layer of white powdery stuff across the bottom and about a third of the way up the walls. I used a cotton-bud with some fine steel wool wrapped around it to gently clean it all off. It came off easily enough and now you can't tell it was ever there.

I dismantled the carb and cleaned it out with carb cleaner, then blew it out with compressed air. The float bowl seal turned out to be a square profile o'ring and was rock hard, with a couple of small pieces missing. I cleaned out the groove and ran a bead of Loctite red gasket maker around it, then scraped it off flush. I left it overnight to dry and then reassembled it all. I made a couple of new gaskets to go between the air filter housing, bakelite spacer block, carb body and then the engine housing. I used a thin smear of non-setting gasket sealant on each face, just to be sure. I refitted it all this morning and hooked the fuel up. No leaks!
Fuel on, engine switch to ON and choke closed. Wrapped the rope around the front pulley, turned it over backwards until I felt the compression peak, and gave the rope a good heave.
It started first try. Let it chug a few seconds and flicked the choke open and away it went. Took a second or two for the governor to stabilise the revs and it happily sat there running smoothly. I plugged my grinder in and it ran fine on either socket, which I had replaced earlier.

Tomorrow I will tip it back so I can remove the oil drain bolt on the base of the engine and take it in to the local engineering supplies place. I will get a barb fitting so I can screw it into the drain hole, fit a bit of hose with a plug in the end, warm the engine up and drain the oil. There is no way to get a tray or drain pan under the bolt so this way I won't get filthy oil all over everything. Once its drained out I will replace the barb with the proper bolt and refill it. By the time I need to change the oil again, I'll probably have forgotten where I put the barb and drain pipe.

Everything seems to take 5 times longer than I expect it to. So far the biggest loss of productive time is finding where I put everything I need last summer.
I've been thinking about how I can make it easier to work through the frequent crap weather we seem to be getting more often down here. Its currently quite nice outside, mostly sunny with a few light sprinkles of rain coming through, but its blowing a gale. I was thinking about how to build a shelter/windbreak over the truck, but it can't be permanent, yet has to be strong enough to withstand the howling winds we get from the south-west. I found this structure designed to protect trucks, buses and RV's.

https://shelterstation.com.au/categories/domestic/rv-shelter

Has anyone heard of this mob or have any idea of the build quality of their products? I may give them a call tomorrow to get a rough idea on prices. The best thing about the covering is that it should let the light through but block the wind and rain. This means I can spread out parts and tools and not have to keep packing everything up each night, or running around madly trying to get stuff covered when it rains. It would be especially useful later when I take the doors off to replace the rusted bottom sections and I could spread a tarp out full length under the truck so I can find the bits I drop without losing them in the grass.

Greg.

Offline Bluebell One-eight

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #324 on: September 29, 2019, 08:49:59 PM »
Hi Greg good to see you're still at it. Villiers were made under licence by Ronaldson Tippet in Ballarat for many years ( they also made Wisconsin engines). I have a dim recollection that after they stopped making Villers engines they were selling imported brands. This might explain what is on your engine. At least the price wasn't too high. It may have been some other company using the Norton name, so long ago! I don't think that the Norton name was in use while R&T were manufacturing Villiers

Offline Ravvin

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #325 on: September 29, 2019, 10:51:29 PM »
I haven't looked into it much, other than finding the operators manual online.

Mitsubishi G1050 Operators Manual

What is really confusing, (ignoring the WA made Modra alternator), is that the manual clearly states its a Mitsubishi G1050 10.5hp engine, the front engine cowling has Mitsubishi printed on it, but the fuel tank has that badge shown above with Norton-Villiers G1050 10.5hp on it.

Getting parts for it may be interesting if it ever breaks down, but its lasted this long, so hopefully if I service it regularly it should hold up a few more years.

Offline Chazza

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #326 on: September 30, 2019, 08:27:16 AM »
Nice work Greg!

If it ever breaks down, at least you can use a more common engine on it.

Wetting the filter in oily-petrol is a good idea and what is common practice on chainsaw motors; I suspect that your filter may not filter the really small particles well, unless it has some sticky oil to assist it.

On the fire-pump motors at work, there is a hose permanently connected to the sump and the manufacturer has put a tap in the end for draining. Damn good idea! If you can't find a tap, a bolt screwing into a female receptor would work, much like the bleed nipple on a wheel cylinder. A ball sealing against a counter-bore works well. The hose can be tied up out of the way when not in use. Change the oil frequently; most manufacturers recommend 50 hrs, but I usually go for 25, as small engines don't have oil filters.

Cheers Charlie
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S2A 109" GS '63
S2A Fire Truck '64

Offline Ravvin

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #327 on: September 30, 2019, 12:00:03 PM »
I bought a barb fitting this morning and found I can tilt the generator back a bit and unscrew the bung without it leaking.
I fitted the barb and ran a piece of clear pipe up from it, then ran the engine for 10 mins to warm up. Its now nice and warm and draining out.
Once its empty I'll refill it and add some Moreys Oil Stabiliser. I put upper cylinder lube in the fresh fuel, so it will be prepared as well as I can get it.
Tomorrow is supposed to be pretty windless, so I will have a go at clamping and welding the chassis rails then. I pulled my welder out and found the whole outer layer of mig wire has a light coating of rust on it.
I can clean t off with one of those green scratchy pads, but I'm not sure if I should do that or just peel off and discard the whole outer layer. Its a 15kg roll of wire, so there's plenty there, but I don't know if cleaning it will work well enough so it doesn't damage the liner. I've never done much welding, so this job should be interesting. I'll have to take some before and after pics.

Greg.

Offline Ravvin

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #328 on: September 30, 2019, 03:16:20 PM »
Ok, generator all sorted.
New problem.



I used some small but really solid G clamps, to squeeze the rail lips together so I can weld them. The problem is they don't have the leverage to get it done.
As you can see in the pic above, the inside rail is nice and straight. Its the outside rail that rusted badly and spread out. As it has only happened on one side of the truck, I suspect that something was missed in the preparation of the outer rail.
After I bent the handle in the G-clamp, I cut it off and used a really strong screwdriver shaft to try to tighten it up. I got about another half turn out of it, but that is all. No sign of the gap closing up.
If it was the inside rail, I could just put a hydraulic jack between the top and bottom lips and push them out.



I could make up something like this out of 50x10mm steel. The gap at the base for the jack may need to be a bit wider. I'll have to measure my narrowest jack.
I don't know of any other tool that I could use to clamp the edges together. The rail lips are 6mm steel and just spring back if I hammer on them.

Greg.

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #329 on: September 30, 2019, 08:56:24 PM »
Nice work Greg!

If it ever breaks down, at least you can use a more common engine on it.

Wetting the filter in oily-petrol is a good idea and what is common practice on chainsaw motors; I suspect that your filter may not filter the really small particles well, unless it has some sticky oil to assist it.

On the fire-pump motors at work, there is a hose permanently connected to the sump and the manufacturer has put a tap in the end for draining. Damn good idea! If you can't find a tap, a bolt screwing into a female receptor would work, much like the bleed nipple on a wheel cylinder. A ball sealing against a counter-bore works well. The hose can be tied up out of the way when not in use. Change the oil frequently; most manufacturers recommend 50 hrs, but I usually go for 25, as small engines don't have oil filters.

Cheers Charlie
The engine is Mitsubishi, The agents ( who ever they were ) called themselves Norton Villiers. All you can hope is that if you ever need parts they can still be found. I have an early Kubota ( early 70s ) it is a beautiful motor and if you type its model no. into a search engine almost nothing comes up. The importers were a company called Mobilco who are long gone. We live in a throw away society, and are expected to keep buying new stuff.