Author Topic: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck  (Read 40667 times)

Offline Bluebell One-eight

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #285 on: October 14, 2018, 02:13:19 PM »
Keep at it mate...... it can be discouraging BUT in the end that turns to satisfaction. Think of the admiring comments for a minute and then get back to slaughtering the metal maggots! You've put too much in to give up now. My project has been on hold because of a move, I can't  wait to get back to it

Offline STDDIVER

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #286 on: October 14, 2018, 03:16:28 PM »
Love reading your post Greg - My project, like yours has its us and downs and some days it seems more downs than ups.  I look at the begining of your project and scroll through and look at what you have achieved, what you have learned,  and importantly what you have shared with a lot of F1 owners................ Kept my spirits up I can tell you!    ;)      I have got mine to a place where early next year registration will be undertaken and she'll be on the road.  I look back at what is achieved each year, how much further along the project gets every time work is done, and the value you add to the project.  Keep up the good work and if you weren't so far away, I"d be in the car and on the way to give you a hand!  You have certainly helped me over the time you have taken on this project.  I think I raised the post where you found the truck too - so I understand how much effort has gone into the project.  I am making a pair of abbey crane stabilising post feet as my project is missing one foot and I know so is yours - so that's one less thing to worry about too.  When I have finished I will send it over to you.  I have found that with penetrol that I have just added as much as I can and don't rinse it out, thin it if need be and add more, when painting just add more penertol to paint and keep going.  A member from this forum gave me the idea and on at least two other projects I have found that it really works, getting in where nothing else even comes close, so you are on the right track.  Keep up the great work - Oh I have found NOS wiring loom complete with the multipin plug if you are up to wiring yet - (Straight out of IH complete with the numbered loom)  Let me know if it will hekp and I will send it to you!  Cheers mate  Frank


Offline Chazza

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #287 on: October 15, 2018, 08:48:50 AM »
...

Not sure what to do about the rust between the double chassis now. It's rusting faster than I can treat it. I thought of getting a turps gun and squirting rust converter into the gap to try to kill the rust, then wash it out with lots of thinners before trying to pack zinc-epoxy primer in there. (Thinks turps gun is the right name. Looks like a spray gun with a nozzle like an oil can. Used for squirting turps or other solvents around).
...
Not sure what to do now.

Greg.

I think the only hope, is to keep squirting Penetrol into the gaps with the gun and hope for the best. Ideally flaking rust should be removed before the Penetrol can work properly.

The only alternative is to completely strip the chassis and blast it, which is probably not what you want to do. At least with spraying Penetrol you can keep working on the truck and spray every day,

Cheers Charlie
S2 Command Recce '59
S2A 109" GS '63
S2A Fire Truck '64

Offline Chazza

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #288 on: October 15, 2018, 09:07:56 AM »
Well said Frank!

You are an inspiration to me as well Greg and I don't even own an AACO mind you there is a Mk 3 for sale not that far from me, which only costs a divorce! Mmmm?

Anyway who cares about a little bit of rust? Squirt him every day and enjoy the restoration,

Cheers Charlie
S2 Command Recce '59
S2A 109" GS '63
S2A Fire Truck '64

Offline Mick

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #289 on: October 15, 2018, 10:00:44 AM »
Remember Greg,

The tougher the fight the sweeter the victory.

Keep going mate.

You can do it !!!!!

Cheers,

Mick

Offline Ravvin

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #290 on: October 15, 2018, 06:06:43 PM »
Thanks all.
Even if I stripped it all and took it to a sandblaster or got a mobile crew around, they aren't going to get at this rust.



As you see in the pics above, which are a before and after pic of a bit of the worst area, the chassis is made up of 2 lengths of C section steel, approximately 1/4" thick that fit together and are riveted through the vertical face.
The rust flakes that have formed have spread the lips of the C section and they remain spread once cleaned out. I used 2 foxing wedges, (blue thing in the crack in the second pic), to spread the lips then hammer on the external horizontal face which causes the layers of flakes to spring loose. I flick them out then use compressed air to remove any remaining rust dust and chunks. The steel is really tough and it takes a lot of work with the 4lb hammer to drive the wedges in and they often pop back out when I am hammering on the chassis. Even where I can get the wedge all the way in, it only opens the gap about 10mm. When I drive a wedge in, it only opens a section about 40mm long before needing a second wedge. I would need over a dozen wedges just for the bottom of the chassis rail and even then, it would only about half the length needed. With such a narrow gap, I doubt sandblasting would do much.

At work, I share a building with a group who do materials protection management. They monitor contractors doing cleaning and recoating of things like bridges, tanks and the pipes and tunnels for the hydro stations. They also test and recommend suitable protective coatings for industrial situations. I explained what I had been doing and how it didn't work. I mentioned that I was considering cleaning it all again, as best I could with the hammer and scraper, then using Rust Converter. They said it was a total waste of time. Their recommendation was to clean it as I suggested, flush it with thinners or acetone to remove any dust and moisture, and once it has dried out, mix up some 2-part Zinc-Epoxy primer and work my way along, spreading a section and forcing the mix in and squishing it around with my flat scraper so it covers both faces. I have to run the scraper along, like spreading icing with a spatula, which will remove excess primer, so I can later clamp the lips back together and tack weld them. The primer has a long working time, compared to car bog or fibreglass resin, so I don't have to worry about it going off too fast. Their other suggestion was to pump a good thick bead of sealant into the gap before clamping and welding, to keep moisture out, but that is just as likely to trap moisture in, as I can't seal the entire top, bottom and end seams of the chassis without totally dismantling the truck. (Although if I had a big, weather-tight shed, I might consider it).

On another note, I pulled a couple of the bolts that hold the bogie axle assembly to the chassis and found that some of the original bolts had been replaced, as there is a mix of metric, imperial, coarse and fine threads. The original spec bolts were Grade 5, 5/8" UNF bolts, 16 at 1-3/4" and 12 at 2".
A couple of the ones through the side of the chassis rail showed signs of wear, as if the axle assembly had been moving and the bolt rubbed where it passed through the double chassis rail. I called into our local industrial bolt pirates to pick up replacements today, by when I got home I found the 5 in the top of the box were perfect, with a section of plain shank before the thread, and the other 25 under the packet of nylocs were all thread, like the originals in the truck. Then I noticed that the 25 all thread ones were also UNC, not UNF. Too close to closing time. From now on, no matter how busy they are, I'm going to tip the damn things out on the bench and check them all.

I also found out my turps gun is properly called a degreasing or cleaning gun.

   

I'll pick one up during the week.
If I get anything done, I'll update the thread.

Greg.

Offline john.k

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #291 on: October 16, 2018, 02:52:18 PM »
Trucks used on cattle transport ,we used to drill and tap the rails every couple of feet for grease nipples,and pump grease between the rails.I think the heavy rust will powder and fall out once the truck is driven on the road....The only rust penetrants I know of are acids and cause rusting themselves......if really heavy rusting is happening after you chip,I would suspect fertilizer has got between the rails,and I would flush it with water from a pressure cleaner..............................One quick/ish way to remove rust without too much effort is by using a large oxy acetylene flame(spalling)......A lot cheaper that sandblasting......Play the white tip direct on the rust and it will explode off.,quite quick if you have enough heat,but protect yourself from flying redhot particles...............So,I would wash out first,then flame spall the rust,should boil off the water.........Flame spalling will leave grey (rough) metal that just needs a light wire brush to paint.

Offline Ravvin

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #292 on: October 16, 2018, 03:38:09 PM »
Thanks John.
I'm going to go with a combination approach.
I'll spread short sections of the double rails with the wedges and beat the hell out of them to loosen the flakes. I'll then heat the sections with the LPG/Oxy torch I have and see what pops off.
Once that is done, I will wash it out with thinners and paint the inside with Dulux STE Epoxy. It is a Surface Tolerant Epoxy, meaning it can be painted over poorly prepared surfaces, as it encapsulates any remaining rust bits and stops them getting the oxygen they need to continue forming. I have to pay particular attention to any bolts going through the bottom of the rail, such as where the bogie axle attaches, as it could allow air and moisture to get in.
I considered trying to grit blast the gap, but I think it would have little effect due to the limited room and the angle the grit would be going in relation to the surfaces I need cleaned. I would also have the issue of any grit that gets pushed around the curve making it harder to clean out and stopping the effective re-clamping and tack welding of the 2 separate chassis rails.

One good thing is that the guys at work are going to get me a 4l tin of the STE for nothing. The local Reps like to give them samples. :)

Greg.

Offline john.k

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #293 on: October 16, 2018, 04:21:52 PM »
No need for any hammering.....just play the flame direct on the rust......it must get white hot,which it does very quickly,because rust doesnt conduct heat,and it just pops off.....it will also melt and run out,but then sets solid again.,so popping off is better.................it would cost a fortune to heat a whole chassis section,and burn off all the paint......

Offline Ravvin

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #294 on: October 25, 2018, 11:52:55 AM »
Woohoo! Look what I received in the mail.



A brand new wiring harness, from the multi plug to the tail lights.
Thanks go to Frank (STDDIVER).

When I got the truck, a previous owner had tried to fit LED tail lights to it. He didn't know how to read and use the codes stamped on the ends of each wire, so he cut the loom off about a metre from the back of the truck and ran his own cable to the cab. Badly.
I had planned on either joining wires to the end of the loom and trying to work out what was what with a multimeter, but the copper wires I exposed were black with corrosion and broke off when I tried to clean them to solder.
Now I can run the new harness through and know I wont have any broken wires or rub-throughs. The new harness is a lot more flexible than the one on the truck too. I suppose the original IS 49 years old this year.

Thanks again, Frank.  ;)

Offline dugite

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #295 on: October 25, 2018, 01:05:01 PM »
good things sometimes happen unexpectedly  :D

onya Frank !
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Offline john.k

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #296 on: October 27, 2018, 11:24:45 AM »
The army demanded decent wiring in the trucks...........our 1984 Acco 1950 had all the wiring like a bundle of spagetti,just crammed under the dash,with inline fuses in cheap plastic holders cut into the wires........and the cheap car rocker switches used to simply fall to bits,just like they did in cars..........pity they didnt save a few of the proper harnesses and toggle switches from the army trucks....and the army trucks had proper circuit breakers that reset ,not crappy 50 cent glass fuses  in clip together plastic holders the tabs would break off when opened up to check the fuses........No wonder Inter went broke.....