Author Topic: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck  (Read 39681 times)

Offline Chazza

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #270 on: January 20, 2018, 04:36:29 PM »
If you feel that the chassis is strong enough, keep quiet about it.

Nice job of getting the rust out! Rather than blast it, I would squirt Penetrol into the space. Several applications will seal the rust and stop it completely. If there are any holes higher up, Penetrol can be added there and it should spread between the two members if enough is applied; it can be painted over later.

I wouldn't weld the chassis, it would seal any damp in and potentially make the rusting worse and it would also distort the chassis. Perhaps the distortion would be minimal, but is it worth the risk of writing-it-off?

Penetrol is also useful as an annual rust-stopper squirted into cavities,

Cheers Charlie
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Offline dkg001

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #271 on: January 20, 2018, 08:25:05 PM »
I agree with Charlie, welding is not a great idea, I think you will find it will close up OK, remember you will be fitting the tray back with U Bolts and spacers which will help keeping the join of the chassis rails even and tidy.   

Offline Ravvin

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #272 on: January 21, 2018, 04:19:19 PM »
Ok, thanks for that.

I've only done about a metre of the bottom side of the driver's side rail so far. My arms gave out, swinging that 4lb hammer upwards over and over.
It was stinking hot, no breeze at all and super humid. I had the 3m x 3m awning over me but next time I'll take a big pedestal fan out too. :)

The bottom side of the driver's side rail is the worst. There is a bit in the gap at the top on that side, and a bad section right at the rear where the double rail ends, but most of the top edge is pretty good.
The passenger's side is almost perfect, with just a couple of places where it is spread a bit and it actually looks like compacted sand, not rust.
I think I will clean the whole bottom side of the driver's side rail out, then do the top, which won't take anywhere near as much effort.
Once that's done, I will jack up the driver's side wheels so the gap slopes inwards, then mop it out with rust converter. Any excess should run out.
Once it has done it's work I will clean it up according to the rust converter directions, and then run Penetrol in along the top gap. If there is any sort of a gap along the face, it should work it's way down and show up in the bottom gap.
Once it has worked down I will paint more Penetrol in the gap at the bottom anywhere it needs it and let it dry or whatever it does.
I'll prime it and paint the inside, top and bottom of the rail. I'm tossing up whether or not to use Zinc Epoxy in the gap. I have a 4l tin of it and it seems to do a good job.
The stone guard under the fuel tanks was badly rusted and I painted it with Zinc Epoxy over a year ago and it has sat out the back in the weather since then with no sign of new rust.
There is some pitting on the top of the chassis rail in a few places where the spacer rail for the tray sat, as it wasn't galvanised. It just had olive drab over bare metal and had rusted through.
I am replacing it with some heavier rectangular box section. I think I might mix up some Zinc Epoxy and paint the top of the rail with it for extra protection. It is thick and should fill any hollows where water will sit once the tray is on.
That's still a bit in the future though.

Greg.

Offline Chazza

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #273 on: January 21, 2018, 04:33:02 PM »
Sounds like a good plan to me  :D

You don't need to use rust-converter if you use Penetrol.

Penetrol works by seeping into the rust and driving out the air; no air means no oxygen, so the reaction that creates ferric oxide is stopped.

All the rust converters I have used don't penetrate rust, despite what it says on the label, so the rust continues under the layer of phosphate.

Have a look at the Flood Paint Company's website, which explains what Penetrol is and how it works. http://www.floodaustralia.net/products/paint_additives/penetrol.php
I did a trial of my favourite rust converters outside for 12 months and only Penetrol worked for 12 months, the others started rusting within days,

Cheers Charlie
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Offline 303Gunner

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #274 on: January 23, 2018, 10:29:21 AM »
Is it Penetrol you plan to use, or Penetrene?

http://qsmart.net.au/sample-post/penetrene-2/

Offline STDDIVER

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #275 on: January 23, 2018, 07:11:55 PM »
Not penetrene - Penetrol is the very best product and nothing I have seen or used comes even close.  That's from a salt water marine environment exposure too!

STDDIVER    :D

Offline Mick_Marsh

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #276 on: January 23, 2018, 07:13:49 PM »
Tony, Penetrol I believe is the correct product in this case. You can paint over it.
http://www.floodaustralia.net/products/anti_corrosion/penetrol-anti_rust.php
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Offline Chazza

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #277 on: January 25, 2018, 09:23:03 AM »
Penetrene is an oil that cannot be painted over and although it may penetrate rust, it will eventually stop working as it dries up, or drips off.

Penetrol is totally different in every aspect; there are some very interesting examples of its use on the Flood website, including one ship owner who nows uses it instead of sandblasting!

Cheers Charlie
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Offline Ravvin

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #278 on: May 02, 2018, 05:54:55 PM »
Hi all, just a minor update.
Its been ages. I only get one day a weekend to work on the truck and it always seems to be raining, blowing a gale or someone else asks for help on that day.
I'm hoping to get a week off shortly so I can get the chassis rails finished and painted and maybe the new air lines fitted.
The days are getting shorter and colder and soon I won't be able to get the paint to cure.

While hammering away at the chassis rail, I heard a clunk sound and looked up to see the brake light switch had snapped off and was dangling on it's wires.
Its a fair old hunk of metal and the part that attaches to the tractor protection valve is cast aluminium. Looking at the break, I think the metal was cracked a while as the switch had water in it.
I asked around locally, as some of the guys in the Defence Transport Heritage Tasmania group have Inters, but nobody had a spare.
I looked up the part numbers and found that it was an old International part.
The number in the F1 RPS was 154054 H1 and the number in the MK4 RPS was 136460 R91.
The Iveco dealer looked them up and the F1 number isn't in the system, but the MK4 number was listed as being superseded by part number 873706 R91, which he even had in stock. $41.



Looks very different to the old one and is far lighter. It should last the life of the truck now.

As you can see in the first pic below, I had to cut the head off one of the mounting bolts for the tractor protection valve to get it off. The bolt had seized in the aluminium casting.
I tried soaking it with CRC and Penetrene but was worried that the aluminium might crack if I tried driving it out with a hammer and punch.
I couldn't twist it at all, so heated the broken bolt up with a little butane torch and let it cool. Then I put it in the press with the broken bolt in a hole I drilled in a press plate that was just a few sizes bigger than the bolt, to give the housing as much support as I could. The press went up to just over 5 tonne before the bolt started to move, but it came out smoothly and I was able to clean the hole out with a round file.



I put it in the sandblasting cabinet and gave it a clean up. It looks like the steel pipe has a copper wash. I can't pressure test it until I get it all refitted, but I will pull all the brass fittings off and use thread tape on them before repainting it all. It looks like they originally use red Stag pipe jointing paste, and it has done hard and crumbles off when poked.

Not sure if I will get a chance to do more to the truck this weekend as we are supposed to get more rain, but I'll post an update when I get more done.

Greg

Offline Ravvin

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #279 on: October 07, 2018, 05:52:50 PM »
Well, winter seems to be over, the days are getting longer and warmer. Time to get on with some restoration!

I got the tractor protection valve primed and painted. I had to sit it inside near the heater to get the paint to cure, but it seems to have worked.



Today I pulled the tarps off and can't see any new rust, so it seems to have helped over winter.
I wanted to try out the steam cleaner, as I have previously blasted the really greasy places with a decent pressure washer, but it had little effect.

I gave the stabiliser leg, back of the gearbox/hydraulic pump and the passenger side spring and chassis rail a good spray with degreaser and left it to soak in for a half hour.
I had the steam cleaner get up to around 70 and blasted what I could get at. I really need to put the truck over a pit so I can get at things easier.



It's a bit hard to see and I couldn't get the camera to light up the area I wanted to show, but a lot of the thicker stuff came off. I think that with a few more applications of degreaser and hot water blasting, I would get most of this off.



The stabiliser leg is leaking oil from the raise/lower lever at the top. The foot was coated with a really thick layer of grease and mud, which came off quite easily.



The hydraulic controls for the Abbey crane had a leak that had been running down the back wall of the cab, possibly for years. The whole area, including the chassis rail, spring and front axle on the passenger's side had a thick layer of caked-on oil and dirt.
I was really surprised at how clean it came up. The spring actually looks as good as new, as you can clearly see "Army" printed on it. I think both front spring packs have been replaced and the passenger's side one has just been protected under that layer of gunk. 



Driver's side spring pack.

Anyway, I will get stuck in and finish cleaning the loose rust flakes out from between the dual chassis rails on the driver's side. I have about a metre to go. Then I'll coat it all with Penetrol, clamp the 2 lips together and run some short beads of weld to hold them closed. I also need to measure up and buy replacement brake tubing and run that along the chassis rails, and then work out how much BrakeSafe air tubing I need and exactly which end fittings I will have to track down.

My goal is to have the chassis rails all completed, the winch and transfer case back in and the winch cable rollers and pulley wheels all refitted before the cold weather returns.

Lots of posts to come.

Greg.


Offline Mick

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #280 on: October 08, 2018, 07:50:54 AM »
Greg,

Your like a dog with a bone 😊

Looking forward to your future posts and really looking forward to seeing the project completed.

Well done !!!

Cheers,

Mick

Offline Chazza

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #281 on: October 08, 2018, 08:36:50 AM »
Wonderful to have you back in action Greg!

Cheers Charlie
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Offline dugite

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #282 on: October 08, 2018, 10:13:09 AM »
Glad that the weather has warmed up enough to awaken hibernation slumbers.

We seriously look forward to seeing your restoration progress :)
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Offline john.k

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #283 on: October 09, 2018, 01:37:57 PM »
See your new springs and new pins too......I notice all the spring works used to be around are gone....seems if you truck needs springs reset or whatever ,you have to buy new .......not that a lot of trucks have springs anymore ........The control valves on the outriggers just have ordinary O rings in them..............Warm weather here means out of hibernation too.....for the snakes.

Offline Ravvin

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #284 on: October 14, 2018, 01:43:38 PM »
Thanks for the encouraging posts, I really need it at the moment.
I went out this morning, planning on removing the last metre of rust spalling between the 2 chassis layers so I could treat it and start on clamping and spot welding the double chassis back together.
What I found was a whole new layer of rust flakes had formed between the sandwiched rails, both on the top, which had been treated with Penetrol before winter, and also along the bottom, which had been mostly cleaned and blown out with compressed air.
It took most of the morning to wedge open the top rails and clean out the rust again. The flakes were well coated with dried Penetrol on top, but no sign on the bottom.
Before winter, these rails were cleaned as well as I could, through a 5 to 10mm gap, then washed out with thinners and allowed to dry before having Penetrol squirted in and left to dry.
This time I scraped out the rust flakes, sprayed thinners in with a squirt bottle and blew it out with compressed air. (Not the safest thing to do, but I didn't get blown up this time).
Then I used a spraycan of penetrol to squirt loads into the gap and blew it around with the compressed air at a lower pressure to try to coat both sides evenly.

I tried cleaning the last metre of the bottom rails that I didn't get to do before winter, but its really hard to get a decent swing at it, as the axles, springs and other suspension parts keep getting in the way. There are also a couple of large bolts that go through the chassis rails to lock the bogie group in position and these bolts have to be removed to spread the chassis layers with the wedges. There are 2x 5/8" bolts on the driver's side where I am working that came out fairly easily, but there is also a big 7/8" one that has a badly corroded nyloc nut on top. It needs a 1-5/16" spanner to undo, which I don't have, of course. I have sockets and a breaker bar, but can't get it on as there is a round cross-member directly above it that links both axles to keep them from twisting under load. I can get a 1-1/4" open ender on one pair of flats, but I think it is likely to slip and just burr the nut if I try to belt it around. I'll see if I can get a lend of an 1-5/16" flogging spanner during the week, otherwise I will have to try carefully grinding the side and splitting it. It's on a stud so I can't damage the thread.

Not sure what to do about the rust between the double chassis now. It's rusting faster than I can treat it. I thought of getting a turps gun and squirting rust converter into the gap to try to kill the rust, then wash it out with lots of thinners before trying to pack zinc-epoxy primer in there. (Thinks turps gun is the right name. Looks like a spray gun with a nozzle like an oil can. Used for squirting turps or other solvents around).

The rust between the double chassis is really holding up everything else I need to do. No point in cleaning and painting the inside of the chassis rails until it's sorted. The transfer case is ready to go back in but can't do that until the chassis is complete, as I need the room to move around. I have the pipe for the new brake lines but they also have to wait. I can get the flexible lines and fittings to replace the old steel air lines, but can't fit any of them either. I need to get the truck under cover to try to slow the deterioration down. There are probably sheds I could rent, but nothing nearby, and the further away it is, the less will get done. At least here I can walk out the back and I'm there.

Not sure what to do now.

Greg.