Author Topic: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck  (Read 37288 times)

Offline Ravvin

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #240 on: November 04, 2017, 06:08:37 PM »
Bit of progress.
I have the new bearings and seals fitted into the winch housing. The brake box is back on and the chain drive partly done.
I just have to make a new shear pin for the top sprocket from a socket head 1/2" UNF bolt.  Once that's done, I can refit the sprocket, chain and outer cover.



I'll give the whole thing another coat of paint before it goes back in. It's getting a lot heavier as it goes back together and I've managed to get a few scratches in the new paint.

This afternoon I started working on cleaning up the end frame and side rails. Lots of wire wheeling and painting needed there.
I managed to get the air actuator off the side frame after struggling with it for an hour. No idea why they used clevis pins instead of smooth shanked bolts for the ram to mount with. You can't get to the back to drive the pin out when it rusts in and the head is round and smooth so you can't grip it to pull it out.



Before and after shots. Looks like the 6x6 trucks got the upgraded actuator with the brass cylinder. The MK3 has the steel version.
I'll pull it apart and give it all a good clean and paint when I get home tomorrow.

It's good to see bits going back together. I have a lot of work to do on the truck before the winch goes back in though.

Greg.

Offline john.k

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #241 on: November 04, 2017, 07:07:31 PM »
You can drill hardened steel with masonry drills.Just pick one with clearance angles like a drillbit,rather then the rounded edge types.The other way is to spot anneal the hard area with oxy. and cool slowly.

Offline Chazza

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #242 on: November 05, 2017, 09:31:20 PM »
...
Would getting a seal with the diameter of 3.006" really make much of a difference over the 3.0002" seal? What do you all suggest? One of the guys at work thought that the small difference in diameter probably wouldn't be enough and said to get some Loctite Bearing and Shaft Retainer.

...
There's a lot of technical know-how and skill going to be lost when he passes, and I don't think people coming up through the engineering fields these days will compare.
...
Greg.

Nice work Greg!

According to the online converter 0.004" equals 0.1016mm. Loctite 641 is recommended for parts that will need subsequent dismantling and it has a maximum gap filling capability of 0.2mm, so it should meet your needs. However, there is a bit more to it than that, as the seal must be concentric to the shaft; if you need more information let me know and I can send you a scan from the Loctite "Do it right users' guide."

I suspect the old boy is a fitter, not an engineer and thankfully fitters still get trained in this country, but what they get shown is a bit of an unknown to me. I was trained as a fitter in the Army Reserve,

Cheers Charlie

P.S. Wives, daughters and mothers doing everything they can to keep a bloke out of the shed when he gets frail or has been ill, is a common thing. They mean well, but occupational therapy is very good for mental health and I suspect that you did a world of good for the old boy, although they can usually only take small doses of it.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2017, 09:31:58 AM by Chazza »
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Offline Ravvin

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #243 on: November 06, 2017, 11:10:24 AM »
Thanks for that.

I forgot to mention in the last post that I took the seal and the chain drive housing into a different bearing place and they had a really big set of verniers that could measure the seal housing, even with the shaft fitted.
The housing measured 3.006", with a tiny variance at a few places. They measured the seal and it turns out it is out of round. It measured 3.002" to 3.004". The guy says it happens occasionally, but should have been rejected in the QA process.
He went through his collection of 3.006" seals and measured them all to get one that was just slightly over sized at 3.008". $9.80. Problem solved.

Greg.

Offline STDDIVER

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #244 on: November 07, 2017, 12:21:43 PM »
Greg, Charlie and John- the fonts of knowledge in this post are amazing!   Congrats on an excellent stream and topics!  I learn about mental health, engineering and 6x6 AACOs   ;)

Frank





Offline Chazza

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #245 on: November 08, 2017, 08:49:59 AM »
... No idea why they used clevis pins instead of smooth shanked bolts for the ram to mount with. You can't get to the back to drive the pin out when it rusts in and the head is round and smooth so you can't grip it to pull it out.
...
Greg.
Coat them liberally with Loctite Anti-Seize and they will come out next time  :D
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Offline Ravvin

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #246 on: November 20, 2017, 08:43:55 PM »
Hi all. Been getting almost nothing done lately. Got a rental inspection this Wednesday, so been cleaning and mowing. Then mowing some more.
I think I've been here 8 years and I've never seen it this bad. If I don't mow around the trucks every weekend, the grass is too thick and just chokes the mower.

About all I have gotten done lately is the winch air ram. When I got it apart, I found that the main piston rubber was marked PBR PC646-3. That's different to what's in the RPS, but the local places still don't have a listing. Luckily, mine was in good condition.
Before I got it apart, I couldn't even pull the piston out. Once I got the gland nut on the end off, I found that there is a rubber grommet that gets squashed down to seal on the shaft. Almost like the system to stop water squirting out the shaft on a household tap. New taps use an o'ring, but older taps used a gland seal made from a twist of greased hemp fibre.
I dug the grommet out and found that they actually had 3 in there. The top one looked ok, but the 2 under it were really old, hard and brittle. I think they just stuck a new one on top and tightened it up. I tossed the 2 older ones out and cut a couple of new disks out of some soft insertion rubber sheet. I used my wad punches to cut the centres out and used one size smaller than the shaft. The proper grommets are oval in cross-section, which aligns with a groove in the bottom of the gland nut. I coated my new rubber disks with some rubber grease and put them in first, then put the original grommet on top and did the gland nut up enough to almost stop the shaft being pulled out by hand.

I etch primed all the parts and later gave them a good top coat. I reassembled it with new bolts and just need to give it a light respray to cover a few scratches.
Oh, I carefully cut a couple of thin insertion rubber rings out to seal the barrel ends. The originals were thin resin sort of things and leaked air. If I really hunted around, I could possibly find a square section o'ring the right size, but this seems to have worked.
I haven't tested it with pressurised air yet, but I can cover the hole and push the rod in and it holds the air until my thumb gives out. Same on the other end when I pull the shaft out.



Only had the little compact camera handy. Neither of those pics looks right. The dark one was without the flash.
I just realised that I have to get a couple of new flexible hoses made up to connect to the ram. The old ones have become rock hard. The steel pipes seem ok though, so I just need to get the fittings undone without twisting the flared ends off.

Once I get this inspection over with, I can get stuck into cleaning up the chassis rails and replacing the rusted out air pipes. And make new brake pipes. Then refit the master cylinders.

I had to order in a replacement switch for the Gernie steam cleaner. The previous owner broke the shaft off and was using a screwdriver to turn it on and adjust the heat. He finally chewed the hole out to the point where it wouldn't switch on. He's lucky he didn't electrocute himself. It would cough a couple a puffs of smoke and that's it.
I played around with the burner partly dismantled and saw that there was plenty or ignition spark, but only a tiny dribble of diesel from the tip. It should be a continuous cone shaped fine spray. I was looking at this dribble when I spotted sediment in the return line that takes excess fuel back to the low pressure side of the pump.
The previous owner had replaced the main fuel hose from the tank to the injector pump, and didn't bother putting the filter back in the line. The diesel tank has a strainer in the filler hole, but it was almost clogged totally. The tank had about 2 litres of fuel in it and it was full of dirt and sludge. I cleaned it out and refilled it, but it looks like some had gotten through the pump and partly blocked the solenoid to injector passage.
I replaced all the rest of the fuel lines after cleaning the tank, but need to fit a new filter, dismantle the injector and solenoid and clean them. Should be a ripper when it gets going. 

Will post more when I get something done.

Greg.

Offline Ravvin

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #247 on: December 26, 2017, 12:28:07 PM »
Hi all and Merry Xmas.

Wow, it's been over a month since I got anything done. Now that I have a week off, I intend to make a bit of progress.

I need to remove the transfer case to get at the air, fuel and brake lines running down the chassis rails.
I also needed to knock the grass down under the truck so I could find things that I drop. Easiest way was to move it forward and mow it really low.
Turns out that in the short time the truck has sat there, since I took the tray off, that the tires had sunk close to 6" into the soft sandy soil.
I moved it forward, mowed it to the dirt and filled the holes in. I picked up 6 big 400x400x50 concrete pavers and put them where the truck was going to sit.
I rolled back onto them and it all seems good. A couple cracked through, but should still stop the tires sinking in the near future.
The brake masters are still in the spare room, as they get in the way when I work on the chassis rails. When parked, I leave it in gear and have the handbrake on.
The problem with this is that to pull the transfer case out, I need to disconnect the drive shafts. The handbrake rods connect to a pivot that bolts the the crossmember that the transfer case hangs off.
I got around this by hooking a ratchet strap between the rear handbrake pivot on the back diff and part of the chassis further forward. This keeps tension on the handbrake even when I disconnected the front pivot.
So far, it has worked. I tried to chock a few wheels but being so big, they are likely to roll over the chocks. The front driveshaft digging into the ground might help. :)

There are 6 bolts holding the transfer case crossmember to the mounts and 5 came undone easily. One just rounded off so I cracked the nut. They are all very rusted and worn, so I will be replacing them.
This morning I swung the crane around and threw a strop over the boom and used my hand winch to lower the transfer case down onto the ATV lift. I originally intended to lift it up and out, but I would have had to unbolt the mounting plates that it attaches to and would also need a second person to guide and jiggle it as I worked the crane. Also, the transfer case is too far forward to be able to use the hooks on the crane.

With the transfer case on the ATV lift, which was sitting on a sheet of steel I had from the other truck, I was able to slide it out from under the truck. I was then able to swing the crane around and hook the lifting strop to the end hook. I lifted it up and sat it onto my makeshift workbench, made from the 2 spare tires from the trucks with the sheet of steel on top.



Once I am finished with the crane, I can put my 3m x 3m gazebo over the top to block the worst of the sun.
I have all new seals for the transfer case and will also clean it up and repaint it all.
I have to clean and repaint the insides of the chassis rails and replace most of the air pipes for the brakes, winch actuator and high/low range lockout, as well as the brake and fuel lines.
Once I had the transfer case out, I found that the pipe from the rear fuel tank had completely rusted through and was only sitting there as it was stuck between 2 air pipes.





Some pics of the driver's side chassis rail and pipes. There is also some rust between the double layers of the chassis rail, but it doesn't seem to have eaten into the surface much. Cleaning it up is going to be interesting though.

Now for the next issue. I lowered the transfer case down onto my new workbench and tried to loosen the drain bung. I want to drop the oil and give it a good flush out with kero before fitting new seals and repainting.
The bung is just a 3/4" tapered pipe plug. The problem is, when I tried to undo it with a big shifter, the side cracked off.



It looks like the metal has crystallised. I tried to get onto it from a different angle, but the metal just crumbles.
I am thinking of drilling into it and using an Easy-Out. I thought of heating it, but the case is full of oil, so that might not be a good idea. I have it tipped over, so the bung is on top.
I'm not too worried about metal filings from drilling getting into the oil, as I will be draining and flushing it out.

I think I'll drill a hole in the centre and try an Easy-Out, and if that doesn't work, I'll drill a small hole close to the edge, but not close enough to damage the aluminium threads in the case. Then I can enlarge the centre hole or drill a series of holes across the bung and try to split it enough to free it up.
I'll post up what works.

Greg.

Offline dugite

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #248 on: December 26, 2017, 12:39:50 PM »
substantial new chapter Greg - worth waiting for :) - thanks
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Offline Ravvin

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #249 on: December 26, 2017, 04:12:41 PM »
Thanks for that. :)

Well, the Easy-Outs didn't work. The cast material the bung is made of is very brittle. I drilled the centre and screwed the smaller Easy-Out in but it just chewed chunks out until It couldn't grip any more. I stepped up to the next size but it was the same.
I drilled a couple of holes close to the edge, on either side of the bung, and tried to split it with a cold chisel, but my chisel is too wide and I was worried about cracking the aluminium housing or damaging the external thread.
I tried heating the casing around the bung with a LPG torch, but only got large amounts of smelly smoke. Eventually, I joined the centre hole to one of the outer ones by filing it out with a round chainsaw file.
I was then able to stick the tip of a bricky's chisel in and use a big shifter to crack it free. Once it started moving, it came out easily. There was some sort of clear varnish/resin in the threads, and I suspect it was a thread locking compound.



With that done, I stuck a spare bung in and lifted it up with the crane to drain the oil.



The oil was an odd grey-green colour, but there was no sign of water. It had that stinky gear oil smell, too. There were a few metal flakes in the pan when I drained it into the waste oil drum, but they were the ones from where I drilled the bung. Easy enough to tell, as they were a dark grey and looked like grains of sand, whereas filings from the gears or bearings would be shiny and sharp like small slivers.



With it all drained, I sat it down and put the crane away. The transfer case is filthy, with a thick caked-on layer of dirt and old oil. I scraped the thickest of it off and soaked it with degreaser. Later this afternoon, once it cools down and the flies leave, I'll hit it with the pressure washer and see what comes off. I'll do this a few times until it is clean, then pull the drive flanges off and change the seals.
After that, I'll give it a bit of a sand/wire wheel and prime and paint it.
Oddly, under all that gunk, it's actually painted grey. The one off the MK3 was dark green over red primer, and then had a few layers of dirt and olive drab.
There is a brass plate on one side, but it's right up under the cross-member and hard to get at to clean.
Not sure if it is a rebuild plate or an original identification plate like the ones on the winch and power splitter boxed on the diffs.

I'll post more pics once I get a bit done.

Greg.

Offline Chazza

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #250 on: December 27, 2017, 09:06:05 AM »

Wow, it's been over a month since I got anything done.
Greg.

Don't I know it!

Internet viewing has been a life of intense boredom - thank heavens you are back!

Cheers Charlie
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Offline Ravvin

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #251 on: December 27, 2017, 12:42:19 PM »
Ha, thanks for that. It's good to know a few of you read this. For me, typing this up helps me sort things in my mind, which helps me decide what to do next. It's also a good reference as it can be a long time between pulling something off and putting it back on and I often forget what goes where. The RPS is of little benefit when it comes to working out whether the front transfer case brace rod goes on the bolt before the rear one does.

I just came in for lunch and a break from the annoying little black sheep flies that crawl on your face and try to get in your ears and up your nose.
I spent the morning scraping and scrubbing the caked on mud and grease on the transfer case. The degreaser doesn't seem to penetrate it. I found that a stiff bristle brush and diesel work much better. The diesel softens the thick stuff and dissolves the old grease. Once that's gone, the degreaser and pressure washer take it back to the old paint.

I got the back about as clean as I can for now, and decided to remove the drive flanges to see if the surface the seals run on was pitted like the ones on the MK3 were. That took more time than the scrubbing and cleaning did. Because the transfer case is out of the truck, the whole thing moves around. I should have loosened the castellated nuts on the truck before I removed it. I could have bolted up the front driveshaft and put it into 6 wheel drive then swung off the rear drive flange, then bolt up the rear driveshaft and undo the front one the same way.



As it was, I eventually came up with the method in the pic above.
I put a bolt through the drive flange and the bar. This locks against the 1-11/16" socket. At first, it turned until the bar was against the steel sheet, but I found it was just lifting the transfer case off the ground.
I had the pipe over the 3/4" breaker bar for some extra leverage but couldn't put enough force down onto it while trying to lift the lever with my left hand.
Eventually I used a ratchet strap around the pipe and the lever, leaned on it as much as I could, and did the ratchet strap up.
Just before it ran out of strap, I gave the pipe a good smack with a big lump of wood and the socket slipped off. The good news was that the nut had loosened just enough for me to be able to undo it with just the bar and pipe.
The winch drive flange was a bit easier. The recess around the nut is too small for my socket to fit so I used a punch and hammer. The castellated nut undid pretty easily.
The surfaces on the drive flanges where the seals run were both really good. On the larger one for the rear driveshaft, there was a ridge but it turned out to be some sort of varnish. I think its from the old oil wiping off the felt seal over the years. I was able to scratch through it with the tip of a screwdriver, so I will give it a light rub with fine wet & dry before reassembling it all.
On the MK3, the flanges were badly pitted. I suspect it was from sitting for a long time. Water would get drawn in through the dried out seals as the air in the transfer case expanded and contracted with temperature changes, as the breather was blocked.

Once it cools down a bit, I will start cleaning the front. The grease and mud are much thicker on that side. I wish I could sit the whole thing in a tub of degreaser for a day or so. Or put it in a big dishwasher.

Greg.

Offline STDDIVER

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #252 on: December 27, 2017, 02:08:30 PM »
Great work Greg - You are an inspiration and I very much enjoy reading your posts, especially the logical way you approach solving problems!  I am overhauling the steering box on my F1 - boy that's fun too!     Keep up the excellent work mate!

Frank


 :)

Offline Chazza

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #253 on: December 27, 2017, 03:46:27 PM »
...I should have loosened the castellated nuts on the truck before I removed it. ...
Greg.

Kindred spirits I am taking the V8 out of my Disco and I remember now, that last time I did it I put it on the ramp and loosened all of the bell-housing and gearbox fasteners first in relative comfort and then drove it inside.

I have just spent 5 hours lying under the wretched thing, trying to reach them all and still have four bolts to go!

Top work on the lever solution!

Cheers Charlie

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Offline Ravvin

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #254 on: December 29, 2017, 06:48:00 PM »
Yes, I know the joys of the Discoveries. I spent last Friday and Saturday under mine doing an oil change and fitting a new flex coupling, driveshaft bushing and trying to adjust the handbrake.

Today started off overcast, cool but with no wind, so I got out my new portable workshop and got it set up.



What a difference, once the sun came out. It's amazing how much more you get done when you are comfortable and not picking up tools that burn your hands.
I spent the day cleaning the old paint and grease off the front of the transfer case.
With the seal retainers off for cleaning, painting and fitting new seals, I was able to get into it with the wire wheel on the grinder and a small brush on the drill for the tight corners.
Everything got a wipe down with turps and then I started putting bits back on. I made new gaskets and used a light smear of red RTV gasket sealant on both sides to help seal the oil in a bit better.
The new bolts also got a coat of RTV sealant, as the holes go right through into the box and there were signs that the old bolts didn't seal well.



Once it's fully cured, I will clean off the excess sealant and etch prime the whole front. The back should be pretty easy as it wasn't as bad as the front.
The front had a weird grey paint all over it. It was really thick, like high-build primer but it scraped off really easily.
There were a few spots where the camo paint had stuck, but I think whatever the grey stuff was reacted with it and most fell off. There is none on the back or sides, only the front.
I'll post again when I get the back and sides primed.

Greg.