Author Topic: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck  (Read 69454 times)

Offline Ravvin

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #195 on: August 27, 2017, 04:55:31 PM »
I started cleaning up the spool block today. I gave it a good spray with degreaser and scrubbed the worst grease and oil off.
I gave the outside a bit of a go over in the sand blasting cabinet, with new garnet, and it cleaned up pretty well. There are still parts that I will have to do again, once more is disassembled, as you just can't get into all the grooves and corners. I ran out of the thick paper tape that I use for masking off the delicate areas, so I'll have to do it during the week, after work.

The control rods came up shiny and smooth. There were at least 3 layers of paint on them. They have now been primed and hung in the sun all day to cure.

I started pulling the spool body apart and found it is a pretty simple unit.



Once you undo the 2 small 1/4" bolts on the bottom retainer, the whole piston can be slid out. Everything inside was very clean, no sign of dirt, rust or metal flakes.
As you can see on the pic above and the one in the previous post, the second spool base is different the the other 3. There is no dust plug in the bottom and it is shorter. I am guessing that the unit was rebuilt at some point and they used an aftermarket kit.
I managed to get 4 of the original Vickers-Eaton rebuild kits. The RPS says these kits contain 7 o'rings and seals needed to rebuild one spool. The kits contain far more than that. It's going to be fun to see where all the other bits go.

As you can see in the pics, the first 2 spool bodies have the top of the cast housing missing where the pin goes through that the control rods pivot on. When I reassemble them all, I will move the third spool body to where the second is, to try to spread the load a bit. I have to straighten that pivot pin too, as it is bent in several places. Not sure how they managed that.
I think that once I get it all rebuilt and painted, I might get a waterproof canvas hood made up to cover the levers, valve bodies and the pressure gauge and cut-out unit to protect it from the elements a bit. Will see how it goes.

Greg.

Offline Ravvin

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #196 on: September 08, 2017, 03:16:09 PM »
Well, I pulled the unit apart, cleaned everything and replaced all the seals and things.
I've reassembled it and gave the whole thing a good painting.



Not the best pic.
I have to make a new rod to replace the one that all the control handles pivot on. The original one is pretty worn and bent.
If it isn't too wet this weekend, I'll get it remounted and hook all the hoses up. I need to power up the hydraulics to find any leaks.
The guys at the hydraulics place checked everything when it was in pieces and said that a couple of the spindle pistons had a bit of wear, but it should be fine.
There's no way to tell until it gets oil under pressure into it.

Will be interesting to see if it works.

Greg.

Offline dugite

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #197 on: September 08, 2017, 03:19:03 PM »
Well done Greg - you must utilise your time well !
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Offline Ford Blitz

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #198 on: September 08, 2017, 04:48:16 PM »
About 15 years ago we had a mark 5 6x6 tipper at work and it was the most useful truck ever! It use to pop out of low gear going down hill if you didnt keep the revs up. Use to combat this by wrapping my leg around the gear stick to hold pressure on the selector. It was something else at 60MPH and not for the faint hearted. I loved the old beast and it was a sad day when the made me get rid of it as it was "too old". I took its ID plates off before it went and I still have them somewhere in the shed. Both It and the GMC 6x6 were one of the few trucks that would go further than the driver was capable of.
The mob at ten terminal looked after the maintenance for us.
I would love to get a tanker 6x6 but best not tell the other half of these aspirations just yet.

Offline Ravvin

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #199 on: September 09, 2017, 02:37:13 PM »
Thanks all. With the days getting longer and the weather improving, I should get more done.

I wouldn't mind a tipper. I know where 2 are, also, but doubt they would part with them. I better get this one finished first.  ;D

Well, awesome morning so far. I got the hydraulic control unit back in place and all reconnected. Something to note if anyone else will be rebuilding one of these: mark the BSP/JIC fittings before you pull them out of the spool blocks, or totally rebuild one unit before the other. Those fittings are a right bugger to get back in and tightened up if you bolt all the spool bodies together first. You also need to be sure you get the fittings in the right spool bodies. I got 2 mixed up, one a JIC flare fitting and the other a BSP. I had to remove 3 others before I could get room to switch these 2 around.

With these all reconnected, I started the truck and let it warm up. I had no idea what gear I should be in, so chose First and just had it at a bit above idle. I have the engine cover and lower shroud off at the moment, so no hand throttle. I stuck a bit of cardboard between the throttle arm and the intake manifold and played around until I got it running at a fast idle. Transfer case in neutral, gearbox in First, I pushed the clutch in and pulled up on the T-handle for the hydraulic pump. And nothing happened. The damn cable or something was seized.
I managed to squirt some CRC on the shaft under the T-handle, and with some wriggling, got it to come up.

With the pump engaged and running, I madly tore around, dragging the ladder so I could get up high enough to see everything, I checked for leaks.
My rebuilt spool body seems to be leak free!
Unfortunately, I found where the original big leak was from.



I think this is the return line from the bypass. With the tap handle where it is in the pic, you close the bypass and get the full flow through the controls. This makes things move fast. I found it best to slow it right down when using the Slew or rotate control. There's a lot of weight swinging around and when it stops, it rocks the whole truck.

Anyway, I tried tightening the leaking nut up as tight as I could and it is still leaking. There's a flare fitting to a steel pipe there, so the flare on the end of the pipe must be badly formed or something.
I'll have to pull the pipe out and see what's wrong.

Well, with the truck ticking over happily, I had a play with all the controls. It took a bit, at first, to get the stabiliser legs to work. It's pretty twitchy. I had a lot of trouble working out just where the handle had to be to make the legs drop. There is a long rod running across the back of the cab with a knob on each end. If you are on the driver's side, you push it away from yourself, against a spring, while turning the stabiliser leg control up or down to raise or lower the leg. It's pretty slow, but that could be because I had the revs low or because it was in First gear.
I'll have to have a good look at the leg on the passenger's side, as I found that the control handle was able to be slid out, as if a locking pin was missing.

With the legs back up, as I previously pumped about 10L of hydraulic fluid out of the system and was worried I would run dry if I left them down, I had a play with the crane controls.



They all worked and I didn't find any leaks. It was slow. I'll have to try with the revs higher. It fairly loaded up the engine when I pulled the third boom back in.
It could also be that old grease coating the sides and bottom of it though. I'll clean it off with kero and give it some fresh stuff. I'll have to get some waterproof grease or cable lube.

Now, my big issue that I need people's opinion of.



This is the first ram. Some of that stuff on the shiny section is old dried grease. The other stuff is light rust. I fully extended the ram and the rust only goes up about half the length. How do I treat that? The second and third rams are nice and shiny, no rust at all, so I pulled them both back in to protect the surfaces from the weather but left the first one extended out half way. I didn't want to pull it back in and damage the seal, which doesn't seem to be leaking. I thought maybe wipe the ram down with kero to remove any grease and then carefully rub just the little rusty spots with a green scourer? If that cleans them off, wipe the ram with oil and retract it?

I was so excited about getting to check out the crane that I never even thought about greasing it first. Hopefully I've done no damage. With it pivoted around like it is, I can now get at all the grease nipples, so I'll give them all a good wire brushing to remove the old dried gunk and pump a load of grease into them all.

Once I get the leak fixed I will spray everything with degreaser and give it a good blast. I'm betting it hasn't been cleaned in many years. There is grease and gunk caked onto all the hoses and fittings.

I'd like opinions on my proposed rust treatment idea please. I don't want to leave it extended like it is and I don't want to retract it and risk cutting the seal.

Greg.

Offline Chazza

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #200 on: September 09, 2017, 05:36:22 PM »
Well done Greg!

I have had success rubbing down the rust with 1200 grit wet-and-dry paper, until the blemish is smooth. Be especially particular to wipe all the grit and rust off thoroughly before retracting it past the seal. Keeping the rubbing localised, reduces the scratching to the chrome plating.

Now that I have discovered Penetrol, I would paint the rust spots after cleaning and de-greasing; Penetrol will stop the rust completely and the regular oil bath past the seal, will also be a big help,

Cheers Charlie
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Offline Philthy

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #201 on: September 09, 2017, 06:10:02 PM »
Hey Greg

Great stuff.

With that ram its no problem to have it re-chromed. A motorcycle suspension rebuilding service near you will point you in the right direction. We re-chrome front motorcycle forks all the time to the same quality as new. Yes you are right it will destroy or leak as is.

Keep going mate.
Phil
« Last Edit: September 09, 2017, 06:13:57 PM by Philthy »

Offline Philthy

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #202 on: September 09, 2017, 06:11:46 PM »
See how well  2000 / 3000 grit oiled wet and dry brings up the ram first.

Offline Ravvin

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #203 on: September 09, 2017, 07:05:41 PM »
Thanks for that.
I think I have some superfine wet & dry and Penetrol, so will do that first thing in the morning. It would be a huge job to get the ram re-chromed. It must be close 8" in diameter and extends about 2'. Must weigh a ton. Hopefully, it will clean up enough and won't cut the seal.
I wiped the ram down with turps earlier and it took all the dried grease smears off, so only the rust specks left.
There is a weird mark on the surface that I can see and feel, like a slight ridge or bulge, about 40mm long, running around the underside of the ram. It  sort of looks as if the whole ram had been bent, and bulged out in a ripple.  Its smooth and only slight, so I don't think it will be an issue. It's just weird.

I used a toothbrush and turps to clean the dried grease and mud out of the groove around the top of the ram, so I could see the rubber lip of the top seal, and it looks really good. I cleaned all of the grease nipples and pumped some grease in. When I did the one on the top of the main ram, the grease squirted up around the edges of the seal, so might stop any grit getting in. I need to replace most of the grease nipples though, as most screw into the end of the pins that goes right through, with a second nipple on the other side. I found that when I pumped grease in one side, it was going right through and squirting out the nipple on the other side instead of coming out the lube holes in the pin. I tried cleaning them out but I think the spring behind the tiny ball bearing is stuffed. I have a heap of spare ones, but it turns out the truck uses ones with NPT threads and the crane uses ones with BSP threads. Typical. I ordered a pack of 10 off eBay for $15. If I buy them locally, I can get 2 for $7 at Supercheap or pay $5 each for them at the local bearing or industrial supply place. I like to support local places, but that price is just ridiculous.

I'm guessing that the rust on the ram formed after I moved the controls ages back, which let air into the system and allowed the fluid to drain back into the tank, which then overflowed. I pumped 10L out and have it in bottles, so I can put it back in tomorrow, once I refold the arm and check the level.

The next job will be to try to unbolt the winch. It should be a lot easier than on the MK3, as the bolts aren't all rusted up. The bolts are huge, 7/8" with 1-5/16" heads. I have a single spanner that size and a 3/4" drive socket, so it will just be a matter of getting at them.

It was such a great feeling, seeing something actually resembling progress, that I felt like jumping in the truck and tearing around the paddock, doing donuts. I managed to resist that though. Might worry the neigbours.  ;D
I sent loads of pics off to the guys at work and my mate in QLD though. Never anyone around when things go right. If i did something silly though, there would suddenly be a dozen people standing there to watch. :)

Greg.

Offline wfc1

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #204 on: September 10, 2017, 10:35:30 AM »
Hello Greg.    Just thinking about your pto. Is it attached to the gearbox side down low? If it is and it is the usual pto setup, you operate with the gearbox in neutral, if it is mounted remotely or driven from the transfer case then you may need to have it in gear. You may be driving a whole lot of cogs and shafts for nothing which will suck out a bit of power.  Regards, Bruce.

Offline Ravvin

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #205 on: September 10, 2017, 01:08:40 PM »
The PTO as in the hydraulic pump? The pump is bolted to the drivers side of the actual gearbox, down low.
I run it in first with the transfer case in neutral. I never thought that it might be run off the input side of the gearbox, and so be totally reliant on just the engine revs, not the gear you select.
I'll try running it with the gearbox in neutral next weekend and see what happens. It kind of makes sense though. That way if you accidentally engaged the hydraulic pump while trundling down the highway at 100km/h (yer right  ;D) in 5th gear, you wouldn't blow the guts out of the pump.

The biggest issue is that I have yet to find anyone who used these trucks with the cranes and knew the correct operating and maintenance procedures. STDDIVER got onto a guy at the place that used to supply them, but the guy never got back to him, as far as I know.
We're just making it up as we go along.

Greg.

Offline wfc1

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #206 on: September 10, 2017, 01:51:13 PM »
Sounds like pto and pump all in one as per the normal procedure. If that is the case gearbox in neutral is the norm. Yes you can run them engaged by accident while driving if you don't fix the bulb in the warning light to let you know it is engaged, and yes you can destroy them and then you have to pay a lot of money to buy a new one and no I am not going to say how I know this.  Regards, Bruce.

Offline Ravvin

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #207 on: September 10, 2017, 02:04:26 PM »
Ok so this morning I got back into it again.
I found my 1500 grit wet & dry and used that, dipping it in a bit of hydraulic oil now and then. It worked well, without going too deep.
I found it easiest to work by feel, not by eye. When you first run your finger over the rust speck, you feel it catch at the tread on your finger. Once it has been polished a bit with the wet & dry in oil, you can still see it as a non-shiny spot, but it doesn't catch any more. You can still feel it, but as a tiny depression, so that shouldn't hurt the seal.
Right at the top of the ram, I found a band of rough brown stuff, about 3/4" wide, in a ring around the ram. After just making a mess with oil and the wet & dry, I realised it was a band of dried, crusty grease from just under the seal. From what I can tell, the actual ram must have a seal at the top and then a space that gets filled with grease, and then another seal to wipe any dirt and grit off as the ram retracts.
The ring of dried grease came off with a bit of turps and was clean and shiny underneath.

After I finished polishing all the rust specks off, I cleaned the ram down with turps and wiped it down with a clean rag dipped in hydraulic oil. I could feel some grooves and odd little bulges and ripples on the surface, but they were hard to get pictures of.

 

There are a couple of spots like the first pic. I think it is from the big hook on the second jib hitting it. As I was folding the crane away I noticed that it lined up. The second pic is the weird bulge or ripple I mentioned earlier. Neither have any sharp edges, so I am hoping they don't damage the seal. Time will tell, I suppose.

With that all cleaned up, I started on the 4 big bolts holding the winch frame in place. What a pain in the bum. It took about 3 hours to get them all out.



As you can see in the pic above, the frame is made of 2 sections of angle iron. The bolt shown in the pic holds the winch end frame to the angle iron and screws into a steel thread insert in the aluminium section, sort of like a Time-Sert. This bolt blocks access to the one below, shown removed, which holds the angle iron to the bracket below and has a self-locking nut on it, like a large nylock. The bracket is riveted to the chassis rail. I was able to remove the bolt into the aluminium end frame with a big breaker bar and length of pipe. The aluminium oxidises and really grips it tightly. I remembered this from when I pulled the winch from the MK3 apart.
With that bolt out, I was able to get the breaker bar on the lower bolt and lock the nut with a big spanner, which kept falling off. Would be so much easier with a helper. The passenger's side is a bit different, as the bolt I needed to do wasn't blocked by another one. The front one came out easily but the rear one was a real problem. It took me longer to get it out that the other 3 combined. The nut underneath is obscured by the torque drive box. You can't get a spanner or socket onto it. I used a couple of big screwdrivers and later a tire lever to wedge in between the flat of the nut and the side of the torque drive housing. To do this, I had to squeeze in between the toolbox and the forward rear tire. Then, when the screwdriver fell out. I had to squeeze back out and crawl under to pick it up. I think that when I put it back in, I might weld a piece of flat bar across one of the faces on the nut so it can't turn. Actually, it might pay to do that to them all. The winch has to come out through the top anyway, as it is blocked from dropping down by the transfer case.

To lift the winch out, I will need to loop a sling around the drive end and onto the hook of the crane, and then run another around the cable drum end and hook the hand winch to that. The torque drive unit won't clear the chassis rail if I try lifting straight up, as the base of it flares out. If I lift the winch drum end a few inches first, it will clear the chassis rail on the driver's side and let me swing the winch enough to clear the other side.

I would have liked to get it out this weekend, but I need someone on the ground to guide it while I lift it with the crane. I also need to borrow a few slings from work and get my trailer back so I can lower it straight into that. I was going to drain the oil out this morning, but it's started blowing a gale and I don't want the oil going everywhere. If it dies down I'll do it this afternoon. It's going to be interesting to see what's in the oil. I'm betting lots of brass shavings.

On another note, has anyone here had knee replacements? If so, how restricting is it to your everyday activities? I'm finding that after a day of climbing in and out of the truck, crawling over the frame and underneath it that I'm getting sharp pains in my knees, sort of on the insides where they would touch if you press your legs together. If I get any pressure to the side, I get a sudden sharp pain and often totally lose control of the joint, as if there is no muscle connected and usually results in me being on the ground. Both of my grandparents had their knees replaced, my mum had hers done, but they were all a fair bit older than me. I'm only 46. Damn, that sounds old when I say it out loud.  ;D
I know I have to get them checked out by a doctor, but I've been putting it off while I decide about private health insurance. So damn hard to work out which deal is best for me, affordable and without hidden issues.
If I get mine replaced, I am worried that I won't be able to do the things that I am able to now, like climbing around the truck, crawling around on the ground and loads of walking over uneven ground, which I have to do as part of my work.

What do you all think?

ps. Bruce, what warning light is this? I don't recall seeing one on the dash anywhere. I know there is a wire coming out of the pressure gauge next to the crane controls, but I thought that was an overload protection thing, hooked up to work the same as the winch overload engine cutout.

Oh, something else I noticed today after folding the crane away was that the original engine water temp gauge on the dash is now working and agrees with the aftermarket VDO one someone fitted. It's almost like it is fixing itself, like Carrie.  :o

Greg.

Offline wfc1

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #208 on: September 10, 2017, 03:02:36 PM »
The inter probably has no warning light. It was one of my crane trucks that I blew the pto/pump because of not replacing a simple bulb. It was an example of what can happen if you don't disengage the pto before driving.

Offline Ravvin

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Re: 180-971 F1 Crane Truck
« Reply #209 on: September 10, 2017, 04:30:29 PM »
Ah, thanks for that.
It would be hard to accidentally pull this one on. It's a T-handle down beside and behind the driver's seat. I think the handbrake lever actually blocks it when it's down, but not 100% sure on that. It would make sense, as you would want the handbrake on if you are standing on the passenger's seat working the crane, with the transfer case or gearbox in neutral. It would take some interesting acrobatics to get back inside and across the engine cover to the driver's seat to get to the brake pedal when you start rolling away. Don't want to try that, myself.
It takes a hell of a lot of pulling to get the pump to engage, but that might just be from a lack of lubrication on the shaft attached to the handle. The cable further down is soaked in oil, mud & crud from the years of hydraulic leaks, so it should be lubed well.

The wind has dropped a bit, so I went out and drained the oil out of the winch. First I had to remove the little driveshaft that runs from the transfer case to the winch torque converter, as it is directly below the drain bung. I will clean and repaint this shaft before refitting, but no sense getting it covered in oil and then have to handle it. The uni joints seem to be really good, no grating or movement in them when articulated, but I will decide whether or not to replace them once it is all cleaned up.

What idiot decided using plumbing fittings for drain bungs was a good idea? Its a square headed soft metal cast bung, that takes a 1/2" spanner. The issue is that a 1/2" spanner is too short and narrow to get a decent grip on the flats of the bung. If you use a bigger shifter, you run the risk of rounding the head off as it is very soft metal. In this case, some muppet had already done that, so I finally got it out with a 18" set of Stilsens.
I think the bung must be a tapered thread. I replaced the ones in the 2 rear diffs with solid ones as the originals were hollow. I drilled a recess into the new bungs and epoxied a rare earth magnet in, so any metal bits should stay there. I'll do the same to this bung also.



The oil was a lovely pumpkin colour. Not a really strong gear oil smell, so it might be just from age and a bit of moisture.
The winch uses the same lightweight gear oil as the transfer case and gearbox, and I noticed that the new stuff had very little smell.
The heavy oil in the diffs really reeks, and it is hard to get the stink out of any clothing that it gets on.
I let it sit in the drain pan for an hour or so and slowly drained it into a clean drum.
There was a single piece of metal in the bottom, about 3/4" long, thin and twisted like a piece of swarf from a drill, but that was all.
If the worm drive or the gear had stripped, I would expect a lot more metal. It will be interesting to see exactly what has happened inside, when I get it apart.

Greg.