Author Topic: Diesel Replacement - More Modern Perkins 6 354 into C 1600 International?  (Read 3811 times)

Offline Lionelgee

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Hello All,

One of the diesel replacement engines put into the International MK 1- 4 trucks  was the Perkins 6 354. One out of a MK 1-4 with the adapter plate was for sale earlier in the year on eBay.

My question is what would be a more up-to-date diesel engine to fit into the Perkins diesel 6 354 that was fitted to replace standard petrol engine originally put into the International  C1600?

Could the Perkins  6 354 also fit something smaller like the C1200 - C1300 - or did they only fit the bigger tonnage like the C1500  to C1600 trucks?

Did the Perkins 6 354 also fit the similar capacity D Series Internationals?

According to Wikipedia the Perkins 6 354 was made between 1960 to 1996 as a Six-cylinder, 354 cu. in. (5.8 L) diesel engine, initially rated at 112 bhp at 2,800 rpm and later at 120 bhp. Accessed May 9th 2016 from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Perkins_engines

1996 was a fair few years ago, despite parts still being available for them they are still an old motor.

Kind Regards
Lionel
« Last Edit: May 12, 2016, 08:36:40 PM by Lionelgee »

Offline wfc1

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Hello Lionel.  The 6 354 was a common conversion for most inters as well as many other trucks and buses. As far as I am aware that motor was supplied new in quite a few vehicles, as in Inters, some Bedfords, Leylands and others, both trucks and buses. The bellhousing stud patterns on many trucks are a standard pattern, numbered as in 1,2,3,4 etc so as long as you know the bellhousing number it is no problem to match them up with a gearbox. You also have a few different lengths of housings depending on input shaft length but nothing too dramatic. They are still available if you know where to look. The inters have 34inch chassis rails right from the small ones so width is usually not a problem, all the normal control cabs are the same size so a Perkins should fit in even the utes, the a,b,c,d line etc. The rear engine cross member has to be changed if original motor was a V8 as the sixes are longer. The hardest part of the conversion was always the parts like exhaust, throttle, return lines for fuel if converting from petrol to diesel, electrics etc. The Perkins Phaser motor was an incarnation of the 354 and from all accounts was not too bad. If you bought a new diesel acco at one stage this motor was supplied in the truck. A lot of bus operators used Izuzu 6BD1 motors to replace the motors in Bedford buses at one stage, but they often used the Izuzu g/box as well, although there were problems with the overdrive breaking, so this is something to keep in mind if going away from the 354, you may have to use the g/box matched to the motor you use, then you may have issues with the gearing. Also when you convert from petrol to diesel you have to think of diff ratios as well, you have to up the ratio if the diesel is slower revving than the petrol motor, although with some modern diesels the revs are higher anyway than the old Perkins and petrol motors. The only problem with a modern diesel in an old truck is usually higher horsepower = breakages if not driven correctly. Diana may chip in as she has the 4x4 inter with a jap diesel and would know how the conversion was done. I hope you get some help from this bit of info.  Bruce.

Offline Lionelgee

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Hello Bruce,

Thank you for all the detailed information. Much appreciated.

Kind Regards
Lionel

Offline Chazza

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G'day Lionel,
If you are considering a conversion - along with Bruce's very sensible warning about diff ratios - have you considered the following?

1. How often do you drive the truck and how far? Is the cost of the conversion ever going to be recovered by fuel price alone?

2. All diesel engined trucks I have driven have been quite boring, whereas petrol engined trucks rev highly and by comparison are quite fun to drive, even if you are driving slowly. I have met owners of diesel converted AACO's and they didn't seem overjoyed at the conversion.

3. If you want to retain originality, a conversion makes things awkward.

4. What about a dual-fuel conversion to LPG, which can be removed quite easily if needed? A Megajolt ignition system allows dual ignition maps and can be quite easily removed as well. The truck also has heaps of room for a large LPG tank and it can be disguised as military stores, or something similar.

5. In my experience, parts for older petrol engines often seem quite easy to obtain and cheaper to replace. Think of the cost of a diesel injection pump compared to a kit for a petrol lift-pump for example.

6. if you do change the axle ratios, don't forget that this affects the ratios of all of the gears and will ruin the AACO's legendary off-road capability.

I think that the major advantage of a 4WD diesel, is fuel economy; wading and fording; and availability of fuel in remote areas. The disadvantage seems to be maintenance costs and initial purchase costs.

Good luck with whatever you do and let us know,

Cheers Charlie
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Offline dkg001

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Have to agree with Bruce and Charlie, unless you have a commercial use for the truck, probably not worth the cost of conversion, generally the little extra performance you may get with a basis 6 354 conversion is hardly worth the effort, and the top of the line jap diesel conversions are not worth the expense. With the cost of petrol you would be better off looking at modifying the petrol engine if you were looking at an improvement in performance.

Offline Lionelgee

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Hello Charlie,

Thanks for the reply and the for the sound information. I used the AACO as an example. It provided the link between the military forum and the truck type I was interested in.

I am more interested in the "C" Series civilian type International Trucks. My dad worked for the PMG and drove a C1200 or a similar four wheel drive International van most of the time he was a Linesman. At other times dad drove a tray back International truck through their incarnations beyond the "C" series. 

The only C1200 van I have since come across is on the other side of Australia and has had a Ford motor fitted to it. It is simply too far away and the price they are asking is out of my range for a while.

There was an International 4WD drive tray back ute of a similar era as my Dad's old work truck for sale in the next town from me at the start of this year. It even went for a reasonable price - that was unfortunately out of my price range at that time too.

My purpose would be to use the vehicle to tow a trailer carrying a Series III ex-Army Land Rover to Canungra or Corowa and back home.  Also to use the tow vehicle as camping accommodation while at the events.

Kind Regards
Lionel
« Last Edit: May 12, 2016, 08:46:05 PM by Lionelgee »

Offline john.k

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If you want to look at an Inter 1300 with a 354 Perk in it ,theres one quietly rusting away in my back yard in Brisbane.The smallest Inter I have put a 354 in was an AB110 panel van.In those days Perks were good property,and it got wrecked to provide a motor for a 6X6.The most modern? version of the 354 is the 6l Phaser,but most are intercooled ,adding complication to any conversion.Regards John.