Author Topic: Inter 170-952  (Read 48247 times)

Offline Chazza

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Re: Inter 170-952
« Reply #180 on: January 19, 2016, 08:50:28 PM »
Similar story over here; what should have been a delightful 3 days off for me working on the Rovers, turned out to be 10 days at the Waroona fire doing absurdly long shifts,

Cheers Charlie
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Offline Ravvin

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Re: Inter 170-952
« Reply #181 on: January 24, 2016, 04:07:50 PM »
Well, I got a bit more done.
I got in early, before it got too hot and the smoke got too thick. I wanted to get the end frame off the winch, to help lighten it up
and to hopefully to free up the drum so I could unwind the cable. I've been soaking the end of the shaft and brass bush with penetrating oil all week,
but after flogging the end frame with a soft faced hammer, I only got it moving about a half inch. When I checked out what was moving,
it turned out to be the main shaft at the gearbox end, so that wasn't going to work.
Time for something a little different. I dragged the press out into the back yard and came up with the setup below.



At first, it wouldn't budge. I got it up to 8 tonnes on the gauge and it started to move.
It pressed out smoothly and both the brass bush and the aluminium housing seem to be in good condition.
The brass bush stayed on the main shaft and I'm not sure how I will get it off. If I still had access to a lathe I could bore out a hole
in a piece of steel that slipped over the brass bush, then drill in from opposite sides and tap threads in them.
The bush has two holes in it that line up with the grease nipple. Not sure why there are two though,
as there is only one grease nipple. Anyway, once the threads are tapped, I could slip it over the bush,
screw the two bolts in to line up with the holes in the bush, but not tight enough to grip the shaft,
and put the whole thing in the press and hopefully force the shaft out.
Something just occurred to me. I'd assumed the bush was meant to stay in the aluminium end frame and the shaft would rotate in it.
Is it possible that the bush is supposed to stay on the shaft and rotate in the aluminium? If it is, wouldn't the aluminium wear away?
But if it is meant to stay in the aluminium, why are there two holes in the bush? Either way, if I can get the drum and shaft detached from the gearbox,
I can press the shaft out of the bush.

The next thing I removed was the brake system.
It was fairly easy. Unscrew the brake band adjuster bolt, pop a circlip off and the whole brake band slips out.
Once I got it out I noticed that the actual brake pad material had let go from the metal backing band.
While it has plenty of thickness left, the whole thing is caked with greasy buildup. Looking at it,
I think the oil seal has been leaking and the oil has mixed with the dust and just gummed everything up.
The metal brake wheel came off the shaft easily with a 3 arm puller, once I realised there was another circlip buried under all the greasy stuff.



I'm guessing the silver disk in the second pic is the oil seal. It has Sealco and D611 8622 stamped on it.
The RPS says its a Seal, Plain, Encased (Olding 8622) (Garwood ?3??224) (My F1/F2 RPS copy is really hard to read). The NSN is 5330-66-011-2959.
If I can get one out without totally destroying it, the local bearing place should be able to find something compatible.
The workshop manual says to use a "pointed tool" and drive it through the oil seal to remove it.
There's one on each side and they say to remove both, so that will be my next job, once it cools down outside and the evening NW change blows the smoke away for a while.

The end frame is a bit rough in places where the chemicals have gotten into it, but I think it is still usable. I'm starting to think this truck is a bit too far gone
for the full restoration that I really want, but I'll keep going until I find something better. At the worst, I'll get this one in good enough condition to get it registered
for Restricted use and take it up home to use for winching trees, carting short logs for my mill and as a backup for the local rural fire brigade.
When I removed the winch cable, I found that about half of it is still shiny and coated in that nasty sticky cable grease that they ship new cables in.
The corrosion only got into the outer layers on the drum. As I couldn't rotate the drum, I had to lift a few loops of cable off,
drag the cable out across the paddock and try to unwind the twists as I went. At first it was fairly easy, but the further out I got, the harder it was to untwist.
It kept flicking into loops and I was trying to be careful that I didn't pull too hard and cause a loop to kink, but it eventually happened.
The worst thing was that it kinked at one of the only rusty spots in a long section of good cable. I haven't measured out how far along the cable it is,
but I estimate about half way. The rest of the cable got lifted off the drum and left in loops on the ground until I could get to the grub screw that locked
the end of the cable to the drum. Once it was out, the cable slipped out easily and then took off across the yard, thrashing about as it unwound the tension.
I'll have a go unwinding it later, but I think I will cut it where the kink damaged the cable. If I cut back the really rusted section, I can put an eyelet on each end and use it in the bush.



Greg.

Offline john.k

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Re: Inter 170-952
« Reply #182 on: January 27, 2016, 09:19:35 PM »
You can usually get a bit of cheap wire from the local crane hirers.A used bit with damage only on one end but too short for the crane.Dont worry if its a different construction,say 34x7 non rotating,as its a lot more flexible.The bush is bronze and heat will expand it to free it on the shaft.The holes are grease holes,and it should be a press fit in the alloy,with the shaft turning in it.Regards John.

Offline skippy down under

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Re: Inter 170-952
« Reply #183 on: February 07, 2016, 07:19:00 PM »
When you heat the bush the dry hard grease will melt as well as expanding the bush.
All good.
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Offline Ravvin

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Re: Inter 170-952
« Reply #184 on: April 25, 2016, 02:31:10 PM »
I'm hating this working-5-days-a-week thing. There's just no time to get anything done.
This morning I finally got to do some more work on the winch. I had bought an Oxy-LPG welding kit a while back and gave it a go this morning.
Like Skippy Down Under said, as soon as I put the heating torch on the bush, smoke started pouring out from the old hardened grease.
After working my way right around, trying to keep the heating even, I was able to use 2 short levers on opposing sides to slip it off.
There were 4 thin shims between the base of the bush and the actual winch drum to set the end-play on the shaft and the thinnest ones
buckled and distorted with the heat. I'll sit them somewhere flat with a heavy weight on them and when I put it all back together I will put the thinnest ones in the middle of the pack.

The workshop manual says the drum is supposed to slip off. Of course, mine didn't. I cleaned the shaft with a bit of kero to remove the
old tacky grease and used a bit of steel wool to clean a rough section that was under the shim pack so that it wouldn't score anything as the drum slid off.
I dragged the press out again and did the balancing act with the ATV lift, to get the drum up as high as I could.
I used the 2 sections of angle iron that form the main cross-members of the winch to hold the drum up and the shaft came out fairly easily.
I don't think the press even got to 5 tonne before it started moving, and then it almost came out under it's own weight.



As you can see in the second pic, there is a lot of crud hiding between the drum and the winch gearbox.
There is a large felt ring that acts as a seal and while it doesn't look too bad, I'm worried that if I don't replace it now while I have the thing apart,
I'm sure to have it leak once it's back together. That sort of thing happens to me a lot. Once I get the rest apart and cleaned up,
I'll see if there is a modern seal available that can replace it.

Once the drum was off, I was able to lift both it and the main gear housing unto the bench.
It's so much easier to work on when it's at a decent height. As you can see in the next 2 pics, inside is very clean with no sludge or corrosion noticeable.



It's actually a very simple system. When the air actuator pulls the actuator rod towards it, the yoke slides the clutch drive thing
along the shaft splines until it locks into the recess that you can see in the plate bolted to the end of the drum in the pics above.
It seems similar to a yoke on a clutch throw-out bearing. I gave the clutch drive a poke as something is locking it in the engaged position
and found that both the clutch drive and the yoke were moving a bit. That means that it's the actuating shaft that is seized.



As you can see in the pic above, the split-pin and washer are badly corroded and I expect I will have to cut the pin on either side of the shaft and try to drive it out.
I didn't take a picture, but on the other side the shaft looks like a solid rod that slides into a pipe. There is a small spot-weld stopping it coming out so I might grind that off and see what moves.
Once the actuator rod is out, the yoke is supposed to be able to be slid out with the clutch drive. That just leaves the worm gear and spider, which should also slide along the shaft.



The castle nut that holds the shaft is also seized. The thick split-pin that locked it was badly corroded and I spent ages trying to get it out.
I've removed enough now that the nut should be free to turn, but it won't. I tried heating it but that didn't help. I was able to get it to a dull red
and had small burrs on the surface melt and blow away, so it's really seized on tight. I think the next step is to split the nut. It's a 1-1/4" UNF castellated nut
and I found that Massey-Ferguson tractors use these as front hub nuts on many of their models, so getting a replacement shouldn't be too hard.

I've also spent a few days cleaning and painting the insides of the chassis rails, but that's boring and not worth taking pictures of.
Once I remove the rusted out rear cross-member and cleaned and painted the chassis rails back to where the rear shockies mount,
I can remount the air reservoir and run new air lines. I can also replace the front brake lines and then refit the front cross-member and winch.

I'm hoping to get these things done by mid winter. The cleaning/painting is the critical part as soon it will be too cold and damp for the paint to dry and cure properly.
I'll post as I get bits done.

Greg.

Offline Lionelgee

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Re: Inter 170-952
« Reply #185 on: April 25, 2016, 05:19:35 PM »
G'day Greg,

Good to see you posting again with some forward steps on your Inter.

Regards
Lionel

Offline Chazza

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Re: Inter 170-952
« Reply #186 on: April 26, 2016, 08:30:49 AM »
Nice one Greg!

I was worried that you had lost interest - nice to see you back,

Cheers Charlie
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Offline Ravvin

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Re: Inter 170-952
« Reply #187 on: May 29, 2016, 03:29:12 PM »
Hi all. No, haven't lost interest, just no time lately.

Today I got the final parts of the winch apart.
I used the grinder to carefully cut the ends off the split-pin through the end of the actuator rod and filed the rough edges down.
The aluminium had really grabbed onto the shaft though, and it took a lot of effort to drive it out. I used the biggest drift punch I had and a 2lb block hammer and just went slowly.
I kept expecting it to let go and drop out, but in the end I had to drive it about 4" before it started moving easily. 4" put it about half-way through the engagement yoke.
When I got it out, I found the shaft was clean where it was in the yoke and open casing, but really rusty and nasty where it went through the aluminium housing on each side.
The section that goes through the casing will clean up ok with a bit of wet and dry, but the main shaft that sticks out and attaches to the air actuator is a bit bent and I will have to
heat it and straighten it before I put it back together.
Once the shaft was out, the actuator yoke and clutch dog just slid out. Both are in perfect condition and just need a bit of a degrease.
Looking inside, I could see the big gear that the worm drive engaged. It has a series of bolts locking the toothed ring to the spline in the centre,
but you can't get a spanner on the nuts on the back until it comes out with the shaft.

The next step was getting the shaft out. That castle nut was a real pain. I tried heating it and using a long breaker bar, but now that the box is all broken down, there's no way to hold it still.
Eventually, I ended up heating it again and split it carefully with a cold chisel. With the nut off, I was able to remove the big washer under it. This is what stops the shaft sliding out through the box.
Under the washer was a shim pack, to get the end float right I guess. These were pretty rusty but should clean up ok and be reusable.
The shaft still wouldn't come out. There was another brass bush/sleeve thing in the aluminium housing, just like in the end frame.
I tried heating it and the housing around it and then flogging the end of the shaft with a soft-faced hammer, but it still didn't move.
Next option was the press. After struggling to get the shaft and housing in the press, I finally got it all positioned and reheated the housing while putting some pressure on the shaft.
At just over 5t, it started to move. Like the end housing, the brass bush/sleeve thing preferred to stay on the shaft instead of in the housing. Oh well, at least it was out.
From there, I was able to pop the shaft with the drive gear on it back in the press, heat the bush/sleeve thing a bit and press it out.
It came off clean, but as you can see in the pics below, the shaft itself had a fair bit of corrosion on it.



The aluminium housing that the bush/sleeve thing presses into looks rough, but is actually fairly smooth to touch. The next step for it will be to use the fine wire cup on the grinder to clean back as much of the
aluminium housing as I can get at and then use the sand-blaster to get in all the crannies. I'll etch prime it all and give it a few top-coats of camo green. I'll put it in the front sun-room for a few weeks
to let the paint cure and harden before reassembling it all. Daytime top temps are around 14C and will only get colder now, but it gets nice and warm in there. The cat would move in full time if I let him.

I decided to have a go putting the bush/sleeve thing back in the end frame. It seems that it's just an interference fit that stops it turning in the aluminium housing.
I cleaned the inside and outside of the brass thing and the inside of the housing with a bit of fine wet and dry. I figured anything I put on them to make it easier to
press in would also let the brass thing turn in the housing, so instead I put the bush in the freezer and baked the aluminium housing in the oven at 150C for an hour.
I had the press all set up and used a good thick welding glove to grab the housing out of the oven. I should have used one to grab the bush too, as it stuck to my fingers.
I got both positioned in the press and it pushed in like it was greased. I could feel it getting tighter towards the bottom as it heated the bush,
but I got it in and even found I had lined the grease hole up. Bonus! It looks pretty good.



I'll paint this when I do the main housing. The winch drum will take a bit of effort to clean up as it is pretty rusted, but I think it should be ok.
One thing that I am worried about is the felt seal between the housing and the drum. If you look at the photo to the right of the pic of the press in my last post,
you can just make it out under the grease and crud.
The RPS actually shows it as 2 separate pieces. One is listed as Retainer, Packing, Drum and the other is Felt, Mechanical, Preformed, Drum.
Before I pulled the winch out of the truck, I checked the oil level and drained it. At the time I remember the level was low,
and I suppose it slowly leaked out past the felt band over the years. I'd prefer not to have leaks after I put it all back together
so I'd like to replace the existing seal with something modern. I think the safest thing to do might be to clean up the drum and housing and take both in
to the local bearing and seal place that has helped me out in the past. If they can find a listing for something that fits, I'll replace it.
I don't want to destroy it while getting it out only to find there is nothing available to replace it.

Oh well, that will do for now.

Greg.

Offline Ravvin

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Re: Inter 170-952
« Reply #188 on: June 11, 2016, 04:35:42 PM »
I got a bit more work done on the winch today. Just cleaning and prepping to paint really.
I kept getting sleet showers coming through, which made things interesting.

Before:


You will have to imagine the right hand picture with all the guts removed. I forgot to take a pic of that side.

I degreased it and found a thick, sticky black layer of sludge in the bottom, but no grit or particles.
Once dry, I went over it with a fine wire cup brush on the grinder to remove all the flaky paint and the spots of thicker corrosion.
The paint came off at the lightest touch, so I cleaned it all back to bare metal. I couldn't get into the recessed pockets, so I managed to get it into my sandblasting box and got all of those cleaned out.
Next step was to give it a good wipe over with wax and grease remover. It's surprising how clean it came up.



It's currently sitting on the cat's favourite perch in front of the wood heater. He isn't impressed.
The felt seal in the main opening seems to be held in with a brass band that fits in from the inside. I thought of taking it out but decided there is no point as I can't get a seal in there to replace it as it looks like it sits in a channel. Picture a huge circlip groove, maybe 3/8" wide and the same deep. Even with the brass band removed, I think you have to lever the felt ring out of the channel and there is no way to get a modern seal to fit. It seems to be in decent condition so I will just dry it out, fluff it up a bit so it presses firmly on the bearing surface of the winch drum, and hope it doesn't leak.

Tomorrow I will give the housing a good blow out and then a wipe down with a clean cloth to make sure there is no garnet grit in it anywhere, and then I'll etch prime it.
Once it's primed I will clean up the main shaft and press the brass bush back in. Then I can refit the clutch and yoke, and then the worm drive and the new seals.
If I get a decent day tomorrow I may get the cable drum cleaned up too, but it's pretty rusty and greasy. We'll see.

Greg.

Offline dkg001

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Re: Inter 170-952
« Reply #189 on: June 11, 2016, 05:22:49 PM »
I have a spare cable drum if you can have if you need it.

Offline Ravvin

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Re: Inter 170-952
« Reply #190 on: June 12, 2016, 04:24:06 PM »
I have a spare cable drum if you can have if you need it.
Thanks for the offer. I gave mine a bit of a clean up today and I think it will be ok to use.



As you can see, the outside was mostly just caked on dried out greasy stuff. I slopped diesel all over it and let it sit half an hour and it softened up enough that I could get it off with a flat paint scraper.
The old dark green paint had bonded with the grease and it all peeled off. The pink stuff that they used as a sort of primer stayed stuck firmly to the metal.
That stuff is ok though as the new paint sticks to it well, as long as it is cleaned with turps first.
As you can see in the second pic, where the cable was pressed against the sides of the drum, there is a big ridge of rust. I gave it a few whacks with a welding hammer and it came off, just like a layer of welding slag.
The metal underneath was badly pitted, but the side of the drum is very thick so I think it will be ok.
After going over the whole thing with the coarse wire cup on the grinder, I cleaned it down with turps and got the last few bits that I had missed before. It came up really well, with the main shaft of the drum looking like new.
 One of the ends is only lightly pitted on both sides of the disk. The end closest to the winch box that had the big ridge of rust was the worst, and it is still not too bad. Once I fill it with cable, nobody will know.  ;D
The next step was to give it a good coating of rust converter. I'm trying a Galmet product called Ironize. I'd never heard of it before, but one of the guys at work told me about it and said it was far better than the stuff
that you neutralise and wash off. This stuff looks a bit like cream, but thinner. You paint it on and it turns that blue/green colour that oxidised copper goes. As it dried further, it made the whole drum go purple.



I'll see if it's dry tomorrow. If it is, I'll prime it and put it out in the sunroom to let it cure for a few days. Unless I sit it in front of the heater, the sunroom will be the warmest place.
Once it's cured a while, I'll paint it and the housing and start reassembling it all.

Greg.