A Mk 4 in Vietnam???

[Bluebell One-eight]

While looking through some AWM photos  it suddenly hit me that one truck is almost certainly a Mk4. The photo was taken in 1971 by one Bill Hignett  and is copyright. The tray jewelry indicates the truck is from the 1968 batch. The number plate is either missing or not visible. Can anyone shed some light?
                     What unit does the tac sign represent?

[Ravvin]

The only thing I can think of is that it possibly is a MK3 with a F1 cab. I know they refitted a lot of MK3's with MK4 cabs when they came back from Vietnam, but maybe they did this switch while over there.
The truck in your picture has tie-down loops along the bottom edge of the tray, whereas the MK4 seems to have a solid pipe rail. Interestingly, the F1 pics I found had both sorts fitted. I would guess that seeing as the trays were the same between the 4x4 and 6x6, that they fitted what was current when it was built. So F1's with the pipe rail would have been made when they were building MK4's, and any with loop tie-downs were built when the MK3's were current.

Greg.

[dkg001]

It does appear to have the roof gutter extending to the rear of the cab, and that is a late model toolbox.

[AGAS 5]

The tac sign is 2 RAR.

Pete

[Bluebell One-eight]

[/quote]hi Greg thanks for the reply. There were at least 3 different tie downs used over the years. The first was as per the MK 3 with the rings welded to the tray side rail and pig tails welded to the tray side boards. That was used up until about 1970 when the tie down rail was introduced. the rail was welded to "stand offs" and they were welded to the underside of the rail where the earlier rings were. There were two different types of standoffs one that had its plane parallel to the rail and the other at right angles to it. I don't know which came first. The pigtails were deleted from the sideboards when the rail was introduced. The 1968 Mk 4s had the early type tie down, careful examination of the photo on the AWM clearly shows the truck has the rings fitted not the rail It has pigtails as well.  John

The only thing I can think of is that it possibly is a MK3 with a F1 cab. I know they refitted a lot of MK3's with MK4 cabs when they came back from Vietnam, but maybe they did this switch while over there.
The truck in your picture has tie-down loops along the bottom edge of the tray, whereas the MK4 seems to have a solid pipe rail. Interestingly, the F1 pics I found had both sorts fitted. I would guess that seeing as the trays were the same between the 4x4 and 6x6, that they fitted what was current when it was built. So F1's with the pipe rail would have been made when they were building MK4's, and any with loop tie-downs were built when the MK3's were current.

Greg.

[Bluebell One-eight]

The tac sign is 2 RAR.
Thanks Pete, that will give a bit more target to shoot at with Google!
Pete

[Bluebell One-eight]

It does appear to have the roof gutter extending to the rear of the cab, and that is a late model toolbox.

G'day Dave, thanks for your interest. Some additional indicators it's Mk 4 are the reinforced hubs and the header exhaust system.  We have to remember the photo was taken in 1971 and there weren't too many Mk 3s with them then. If the truck had a fibreglass fuel tank the filler would be visible too. The wind screens are Mk4 as well. The position of the horn is another issue, there was an EMEI issued at the end of 1966 to reposition it to a point half way up the radiator opening, behind the brush guard, on the passenger side. If the truck had been through a base overhaul that would have been done. I must get active and send that stuff to you soon!!

[Diana Alan]

You can bolt a Mk4 front (which includes the screens) to a Mk3 cab. 

If you look at the F1 in the foreground there doesn't appear to be a gutter on the cab making it a Mk3 cab.

[Bluebell One-eight]

You can bolt a Mk4 front (which includes the screens) to a Mk3 cab. 

If you look at the F1 in the foreground there doesn't appear to be a gutter on the cab making it a Mk3 cab.

Of course you can change the front ends on these trucks, it's all the other factors that lean heavily toward it being a MK4.The fact that the F1 doesn't have the extended roof gutter  does not mean it's a MK3 cab it just means it's an early F1. The extended gutter was introduced by IHC about the start of 1968 even on the civvy ACCOs just like the fibre glass mudguards were replaced by metal ones in 1964.  Any F1 or F2 that predates this was not produced with any guttering behind the door opening. ALL Mk4s have the full gutter.

[Bluebell One-eight]

Here is some more evidence to support the theory that the truck is a Mk4. according to memory the headder type exhaust system didn't appear as replacements on Mk3s until the mid 70s and the cab and cab front ends until 1970. This is supported by EMEIs. EMEI G557-42 details the replacement of "single piece exhaust systems with two piece systems ".The EMEI is dated July 1974, and initially the replacement was to be done when the exhaust manifold was cracked but was later changed to when any component of a single exhaust system needed replacement". The policy appears to be part of the standardization of the fleet. A similar situation applies to the replacement of cabs, with the EMEI dated 1970 detailing the procedure for replacement of cabs and the part numbers and DSNs of parts to be ordered being Mk3 not Mk4. It is important to note that replacement of cabs and cab parts was only done by BASE workshops. There were only Field workshops in SVN, so a cab would not be replaced in country. The truck pictured has the re-inforced (ribbed) hubs, later tool bin and full roof guttering as mentioned. We must remember that the photo was taken in 1971, so the chances of it being a rebuild rather than a Mk4 are fairly low to say the least. I have to admit that I have more than a passing interest in this truck because if it is a MK4 it may be one I have. The horn is placed on the bumper on the drivers side of the brush guard, which is not a standard position. The Mk 4 I have has two 1/4"holes drilled and tapped there and it is by chassis number the first Mk4 cargo truck built, in 1968. Hopefully all will be revealed in time

[Bluebell One-eight]

Here is another pic from the war memorial site. It is labeled a MkIV and is from 1969. It isn't an F1 because the top of the hurdle is just over half way up the cab back window, an F1 is level with the seam between the roof and back wall panels. The truck is not a Mk3 because it has roof guttering at the back of the cab, so it seems at least two Mk4s made it over there.

[dkg001]

All you need now, is some documentary evidence, I am convinced the first truck is a mk4 the second is likely to be a mk4 could be a photo of the one truck, certainly is a bit of a mystery.