Registry of Ex Military Land Rovers

REMLR Technical => Vehicle Markings => Topic started by: Magellan on March 28, 2013, 01:32:49 PM

Title: Replica TAC plates
Post by: Magellan on March 28, 2013, 01:32:49 PM
Hi, just wondering if anyone produces these? Or would I be better off doing it myself? Is there any info on correct colours/swatches?

thanks in anticipation, Daryl
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: Carzee on March 28, 2013, 02:22:07 PM
Spray cans. Check. Heavy steel. Chk. Ruler. Chk. Numbers stencils.
Start off with a simple red RAR tac....
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: Kaneya on March 28, 2013, 06:20:04 PM
Bandiana museum does a couple of varieties. I was in there and ran into some very accommodating people who managed to print some extra large size for my Inter. On an over size colour printer that does a material print sticker. Stick them straight on the plate and voila. I'm sure if people were prepared to pay or donate to the museum and could give them the design you maybe able to negotiate a set.

Regards
Brad
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: Magellan on March 28, 2013, 10:32:53 PM
I love this web site...never too much help! :) Now Bandiana sounds interesting. I'm wanting to replicate my brother-in-law's regimental plates. He was in RASIGS, School of Signals, Simpson Barracks. I need the 'Field Force' plate, gold/yellow kangaroo and crossed swords on a green background and the white over blue with a red '1' he tells me.

the spray cans also sound the go too, both ideas are worth investigating

cheers, Daryl
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: Diana Alan on March 29, 2013, 11:35:18 AM
Hi Daryl

In your brothers day they would usually be painted, even if you paint the background, use fast drying automotive spray paint cans and then get a vinyl decal for the numeral.

Diana
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: Magellan on March 29, 2013, 12:50:14 PM
Thanks Diana, He was also in Malaya and PNG in the mid-late 60's so I'm looking at those too. It's no mind to me that a '79 Series III couldn't've served in Malaya in '64-'66, I just want to recognise his service, it's a bit of fun.  :)

cheers, Daryl
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: THE BOOGER on March 29, 2013, 03:52:41 PM
Hi Daryl

This a 1 division tac from post vietnam I had these printed by a local sign writer any si9gn writer should be able to do it on vinyl sticker for you. If you can get them a picture of your brothers unit tac they can do it as well all you need to do is cut some metal plate fo fit

Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: Magellan on March 31, 2013, 11:56:43 AM
Thanks Booger. Would the '1' have been on the Field Force plate for domestic use as well? My brother-in-law remembers the design but never mentioned the '1'. His last posting was Admin' stream, Simpson Barracks in 1980.

cheers
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: THE BOOGER on March 31, 2013, 09:55:53 PM
The 1 denotes 1 division basically all the regular army a similar plate but red with 2 is for 2 div or the army reserve there was not a plate specificaly for field force all regular units had the green plate plus a unit tac somtime arty had 2 unit plates
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: THE BOOGER on March 31, 2013, 09:58:53 PM
heres the 2 div plate on the mog at the front
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: Magellan on March 31, 2013, 10:56:20 PM
Ah that clears that up, many thanks.

Daryl
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: AGAS 5 on April 01, 2013, 08:02:13 AM
.... there was not a plate specificaly for field force...

The tac sign for HQ Field Force was similar to 1 Div, except on a red background and a crown instead of '1'. I'm not certain, but this may have been used as the formation tac sign for direct command units to HQ Field Force.

http://174.142.39.178/detail.asp?id=7107&n=Aust-Army-Vehicle-TAC-Sign-sticker-for-Field-Force-Command

Cheers,

Pete
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: Carzee on April 01, 2013, 09:21:04 AM
Here's one on a gunbuggy from Tommy's 112-730 walkaround:

(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/008low.jpg)

btw, just how did they change that tac plate?
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: THE BOOGER on April 01, 2013, 09:24:29 AM
Hey Daryl what unit are you trying to replicate you mention the School of Sigs at simpson barracks they would have had a Training command tac plate  AGAS may be able to say what the unit tac looks like :)
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: zulu delta 534 on April 01, 2013, 09:51:22 AM
And the RA Sigs school Tac sign would have been red 941 on a white/blue background. 9 signifying "school" and 41 for Sigs.
As for changing the Gunbuggy Tac sign, the bar that is in place to retain the ammunition is only fixed at on end and easily unclips and swings out of the way - especially handy when one wishes to access the ammo to reload. ;)
Regards
Glen
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: bronzie66610 on April 02, 2013, 10:31:44 PM
Daryl
Member of my family was at Simpson Barracks, will interrogate him if he has a Tac laying around (confidential etc)
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: Magellan on May 01, 2013, 11:24:15 PM
Hey Daryl what unit are you trying to replicate you mention the School of Sigs at simpson barracks they would have had a Training command tac plate  AGAS may be able to say what the unit tac looks like :)

Hey Booger. There's four units I know that my brother-in-law served in:- Balcombe School of Sigs; 208 Sig Sqn of 28 Commonwealth Brigade Malaya; P.I.R Wewak in the '70's and lastly Simpson Barracks. I'd like to replicate the 28 Brigade plates, the links are below-

http://s5.photobucket.com/user/lrman/media/RedRoyalBlu-1.jpg.html?sort=3&o=1
http://s5.photobucket.com/user/lrman/media/28_comwel_flash_1_small.jpg.html?sort=3&o=12

Many thanks to all who have offered assistance, I've been in Tassie a wee while and just got back.

Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: Magellan on May 01, 2013, 11:35:50 PM
And the RA Sigs school Tac sign would have been red 941 on a white/blue background. 9 signifying "school" and 41 for Sigs.
As for changing the Gunbuggy Tac sign, the bar that is in place to retain the ammunition is only fixed at on end and easily unclips and swings out of the way - especially handy when one wishes to access the ammo to reload. ;)
Regards
Glen

Is the '41' specific to a squadron or just a generic for Sigs? I've seen 'School' plates before with the '9' preceding two numbers and t'other plate being the Field Force plate

cheers, Daryl
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: THE BOOGER on May 02, 2013, 01:27:24 AM
Glen(zd) is much more up to date with that time period but 941 is specific to RA sig school
Actually I think it was called RA school of signals now called ADF school of signals
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: Magellan on May 03, 2013, 08:53:36 PM
Cheers, yer right it was 'School of Sigs'.
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: Magellan on July 16, 2013, 11:15:22 AM
Hello again chaps. Further to this topic, in relation to the Field Force TAC plate, green background, from the '70s onwards was there a crown above the kangaroo and crossed swords? I've spoken to my brother-in-law who was at Simpson Barracks then and he doesn't remember a crown, just the crossed swords and kangaroo.

cheers, Daryl
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: THE BOOGER on July 16, 2013, 11:22:41 AM
Depending on when in the 70,s you if you mean the 1 div tac sign green with gold crossed swords and kangaroo then no crown some of the ares units or 2 div kept the crown for a while but that is a red tac. There was no field force tac as such ;)
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: Diana Alan on July 16, 2013, 06:27:26 PM
Wasn't the red tac with swords, kangaroo and crown actually Field Force Command, the emphasis being on the command or HQ.  Other units in the divisions were the kangaroo over crossed swords with the roman numeral for which one over the red background for CMF/Army Reserve and green background for Regular Army units.
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: THE BOOGER on July 16, 2013, 07:15:23 PM
from about 79 onwards all reg units used either trg comd or 1 div tac plates I did not see any using the red tac between 79 and 87 when I left, some reserve units were a bit slower to change.
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: Diana Alan on July 16, 2013, 08:59:32 PM
Sorry I thought the CMF tac had the kangaroo, but its the rising sun badge of the Australian Army.
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: Mick on July 17, 2013, 03:14:23 PM
Hi everyone,

The red skippy with crown and crossed swords is the "Field Force " command tac plate. Training command is the the kangaroo, crown and crossed swords with green , yellow, green hoops( stripes) background and Logistic's Command was the Kangaroo , crown, crossed swords with red, blue ,red hoops background.

The kangaroo and crossed swords with the number 1 in gold on a green background was the 1st Division formation sign and was made up of the 1st Brigade in Sydney, 6th Brigade in Brisbane, and the 3rd Brigade in Townsville .

So a vehicle from 8/9 RAR would have a tac sign 62/63 on a red background and the 1st Div Formation sign. A 1RAR vehicle would have a tac plate 55 on a red background and a 1st Div formation plate.  I hope that helps?
I think training command units ( Training schools) had their corpses colour as a background and a three digit number I think?

Hope that helps

Mick
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: Diana Alan on July 17, 2013, 03:57:43 PM
Thanks Mick

I'll post up the other tac/formation signs you mention tonight.

Many of the specialty training schools/units have a black tac, but yes corps schools have the corps colour/s.

As a kid, I remember many of the vehicles from the local Randwick Barracks, had the light blue background with the red waratah (NSW State flower/symbol).  When would this have been used instead of the various crossed swords etc?

What was the tac of 5RAR in SVN?

Diana
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: Mick on July 17, 2013, 04:48:18 PM
Hi Diana ,

The tac plate with the blue vbackground would have been a vehicle from the 2nd Military District (2MD) . The military districts boundaries were basically state boundaries give or take and wee responsible for administration within the district. Managing buildings, liaison with government, etc.

1MD = Queensland, 2MD = NSW, 3MD = Victoria , 4MD = SA , 5MD = WA, 6MD = Tasmania, 7MD = Northern Territory.

5 RAR's tac plate in Vietnam would have been 59 ( white numeral on red background)

Units such as Royal Military College Duntroon did not fall under any Comd and answered directly to Army Head Quarters and had the own tac plates. Can't remember them off the top of my head.

Some transport units like 26 Tpt Sqn and 18 Tpt Sqn were field force but not part of the 1st Division . Their tac was a blue plate with a red sash and white numerals 510. Their formation was 1 Logistic Support Group ( 1LSG) a red plate with a white circle with a black horse head. ( something like that) :-)

Cheers.

Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: Diana Alan on July 17, 2013, 10:53:10 PM
signs as promised.
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: zulu delta 534 on July 18, 2013, 11:18:07 AM
In the days of the Waratah type Tac sign, the country's military areas were known as Commands, and the country was divided into separate Commands basically by states. Therefore travelling counter-clockwise the areas were:
Qld being Northern ( Crown superimposed on Queen Victoria's Cross on a white or khaki background.), now 1st Mil District
NSW being Eastern (Red Waratah on a blue background),                                                                        now 2nd Mil District
Vic being Southern(Crown sitting atop a shield containing the Southern Cross on grey background),      now 3rd Mil District
SA being Central ( Magpie in a yellow circle on a brown background),                                                       now 4th Mil District
WA being Western (Black swan on a yellow background)                                                                          now 5th Mil District
Tas. being Tasmanian (Red rampant lion in gold shield on khaki background) ,                                         now 6th Mil District
NT being Northern Territory  (a buffalo head in a yellow circle on a green background.)                            now 7th Mil District

Army Headquarters was the group that controlled the lot of these "commands" and was depicted by a Lion atop the crown shown on a red over blue shield on a yellow or khaki background. Army Headquarters looked after things that affected the Army as a whole rather than as a State entity, such as Recruit training, OCS, Duntroon and the likes of such.

These Tac signs would have been common on all Austin Champs, Series 2s and early S2as in service, the system changing about the time of the intro of S3s, whilst they were serving here in Australia.

When a force was deployed overseas, such as the BCOF & ANZUK forces or SVN, then a separate "Command" area was set up and the appropriate Tac signs designed to cover that force. The actual design of these signs was set up here in Australia but the production of same was usually a local unit effort copied from drawings from SOVOS of the day, hence there are certain variations from the original design. (In actual fact the AFV Kangaroo or Skippy sign as we know it, originally had two red lines depicting a shield on a yellow background, designed to replicate the South Vietnamese flag to a certain degree, with the Kangaroo enclosed in that shield. I must add, I have never seen one done that way but that was the original design laid out!)

The 1 Div sign was Skippy on crossed swords on a green background. This sign replaced the white "1" in a black pentagon on a red background in the mid/late 60's. Some units carried the old pentropic sign over to SVN even though, on paper, it had been superseded prior to this.

The crown over the skippy and crossed swords on a red background, was as stated earlier Land Force Command, and this was replaced in about 1987 or so with the "skippy on crossed swords on a green background".
I seem to remember something about "crossed swords" representing the ARA and "crossed bayonets" representing the CMF, whereas "crossed torches" represented the Cadets, but that is a bit far back in my memory now.

Mick, I think that the modern logistical Transport Units such as 26 use the whole horse (Clydesdale?) on their signs rather than just the Horse's head. The Horse head was representative of a specific unit, that being 1 ALSG.
Actually 26 Tpt Sqn (510) comes under 9 FSB which is represented by 9 over 511. They do have their own Platoon markings on the doors though in the form of a "camel" or a "roadrunner" emblem.

The important thing about all this above guff, is the 'time frames' of these signs. It is very easy to make an inadvertent  blunder in putting the wrong era signs on the wrong era vehicle. (A bit like putting a Land Rover in a WWll movie.) This possibly doesn't mean much at all to the general public, but if you wish to use the vehicle on Anzac Day, that is when you will possibly find the people who will pick it up.

Regards
Glen
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: Carzee on July 18, 2013, 03:57:44 PM
Well, got to say this thread has more information and expertise regarding eras and units than StephenTaubert's book from 15 years back.

We are fortunate to have some knowledgeable members and many thanks are in order. Cheers to you all.

This thread definitely has info that would save loads of time (instead of looking all over the place) if it was on the REMLR page proper.

 :) excellent
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: Mick on July 18, 2013, 04:36:30 PM
Your spot on Glen , you do have to get it right for when you parade your vehicle, those in the know will be all over it. I know in the 80's 26 Tpt Sqn ,18 Tpt Sqn , and 16 Tpt Sqn ( ARES) made up 9 Tpt Regiment . I don't think 9 Regiment is on the ORBAT today.

The tac plate then was 9 over 510 white numerals royal blue plate with red sash.in regards to 26 Tpt Sqn the unit mascot was a camel which was stencilled onto the vehicles in 86 Tpt Tp, 87 Tpt Tp ( tipper) had the camel with a tipper hump and 158 Tpt Tp had the stalk with a tank in the sling.

Cheers,

Mick
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: Diana Alan on July 18, 2013, 05:53:17 PM
Well, got to say this thread has more information and expertise regarding eras and units than StephenTaubert's book from 15 years back.

We are fortunate to have some knowledgeable members and many thanks are in order. Cheers to you all.

This thread definitely has info that would save loads of time (instead of looking all over the place) if it was on the REMLR page proper.

 :) excellent
Too right Carzee

Stephen T's book could do with an update to cover the many recent changes particularly the low vis signage, but is still an excellent resource.  Does anyone know if hes still around?

On the camels etc, its sad to see the Inter S lines with the door art coming through the auctions.  That is unless I can get my hands on one!  8)
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: FFRMAN on July 18, 2013, 06:04:15 PM
26 Tpt Sqn the unit mascot was a camel which was stencilled onto the vehicles

Cheers,

Mick

Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: FFRMAN on July 18, 2013, 06:06:39 PM
  26 Tpt Sqn the unit mascot was a camel which was stencilled onto the vehicles 

Cheers,

Mick

Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: zulu delta 534 on July 19, 2013, 07:25:52 PM
Wasn't the red tac with swords, kangaroo and crown actually Field Force Command, the emphasis being on the command or HQ.  Other units in the divisions were the kangaroo over crossed swords with the roman numeral for which one over the red background for CMF/Army Reserve and green background for Regular Army units.
Was that (shudder) rising sun with the Keating star ever used officially on military signs. I have my doubts but could be wrong.
Regards
Glen
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: Diana Alan on July 19, 2013, 09:22:22 PM
Its from Stephen Taubert's book, so  assume so.

Is this better?

Or this one?

+ original
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: Magellan on July 20, 2013, 03:53:56 PM
Hi everyone,

The red skippy with crown and crossed swords is the "Field Force " command tac plate. Training command is the the kangaroo, crown and crossed swords with green , yellow, green hoops( stripes) background and Logistic's Command was the Kangaroo , crown, crossed swords with red, blue ,red hoops background.

The kangaroo and crossed swords with the number 1 in gold on a green background was the 1st Division formation sign and was made up of the 1st Brigade in Sydney, 6th Brigade in Brisbane, and the 3rd Brigade in Townsville .

So a vehicle from 8/9 RAR would have a tac sign 62/63 on a red background and the 1st Div Formation sign. A 1RAR vehicle would have a tac plate 55 on a red background and a 1st Div formation plate.  I hope that helps?
I think training command units ( Training schools) had their corpses colour as a background and a three digit number I think?

Hope that helps

Mick


Many thanks for all your replies again! It may be misleading but I use the term 'Field Force" as that's what my brother-in-law uses. His memory is a bit hazy. As he was at Simpson Barracks (School of Sigs) I assume one of the TAC plates would've been red '941'over the RASIGS colours. The other one I thought would've been the 'Field Force' plate he refers to (green 'skippy' without number '1') but, it now seems possible from what Diana and Mick have posted that the Training Command TAC might've been the other one?

cheers, Daryl
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: Magellan on July 20, 2013, 04:22:58 PM
Here are the TAC plates from 28 Commonwealth Brigade, 208 Sig Sqn, Alpha Troop, Malacca 1965. The colours are the closest I could get using an original colour patch sample. This is one unit my b-in-law served in for 2 years before reassigning to PIR in Wewak



(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/lrman/th_IMG_1965.jpg) (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/lrman/media/IMG_1965.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: 4X4-566 on July 20, 2013, 05:06:10 PM
Stephen Taubert describes the Cwealth formation sign with the crown with a white background rather than the pale blue coming through.
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: Magellan on July 20, 2013, 08:49:09 PM
Ah, many thanks. I was always worried it mightn't be quite right.

 
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: Magellan on July 20, 2013, 09:16:31 PM
Stephen Taubert describes the Cwealth formation sign with the crown with a white background rather than the pale blue coming through.

Are the colours in this sample an accurate representation of the book's image? I ask as when I save it to my computer the blues redden a little.  :-[ If they are I can get the PMS colour no.s

cheers, Daryl
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: 4X4-566 on July 20, 2013, 10:26:11 PM
Others may know more, but I thought the Army used standard colours.  When you open images from the Formation Signs CD ROM the reds on several signs are different so the wole book may be no better than your colour choice.

From the preface it seems the autor was at least at some time a serving soldier and the publication undertaken with a research grant from the Army.  From the credits it appears the signs were drawings done for the book and not from Army image files. The signs are all signed in the bottom LH corner.

Doug
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: Magellan on July 21, 2013, 12:00:43 AM
Yes I think they did too, same as British colours I believe. The white background around the crown is correct, it matches the cloth colour patch. My oversight which will cost $

cheers, Daryl
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: zulu delta 534 on July 23, 2013, 01:18:04 PM
I am pretty sure that the Tac sign on the left would have been a red "1" on a white over blue background rather than a white over black background. I am also pretty sure that there were no Australian vehicles over there then, the Aussies were posted to what were originally Brit Units (but renamed "Commonwealth Brigade") and used Brit vehicles and equipment.
Regards
Glen
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: Diana Alan on July 23, 2013, 05:44:57 PM
Are we talking about the Malayan Emergency, or was the Commonwealth formation sign used elsewhere?

If it were the Malayan Emergency, the RAE definately had International teaspoon tippers and Mk3 Internationals and even trialed the Mercedes Unimog.  There is a thread in the International Truck area.

Not sure if we had any Land Rovers, we likely used the British Army stock.

Diana
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: zulu delta 534 on July 23, 2013, 07:42:47 PM
I was referring to the 28th Commonwealth Brigade which was a Brit Infantry unit which contained Aust. NZ, Indian and British Bns. and supporting elements.
208 Sig Sqn was to my knowledge a sig British Unit which would have had Aussie detachments.
On their site there is picture of a radio vehicle and it definitely is not one of ours, and carries the signage that was mentioned earlier of the Commonwealth Brigade.
The RAE detachments in both Malaya and New Guinea (64-65) used AA International trucks and then replaced them with the the AB Teaspoons when they came out. A lot of those trucks were 87 Platoon vehicles. ;D

"Raised in April 1951 in Korea to replace the British 27th Infantry Brigade, the 28th Brigade contained infantry battalions from Australia and Britain, artillery batteries from Britain and New Zealand, a British armoured squadron and an Indian field ambulance. It formed part of the 1st Commonwealth Division, activated in July 1951, and fought right through the Korean War and remained into the ceasefire period. It was commanded by a succession of first British and then Australian officers, and was disbanded in the draw-down of United Nations forces in 1954. It was re-formed in Malaya in 1955 to form part of the British Commonwealth Far East Strategic Reserve for use in SEATO operations, and took part in the Malayan Emergency, which was not in fact its primary task. It now consisted of a British, an Australian and a New Zealand infantry battalion with supporting arms and services. Elements of the brigade continued to harry remaining communist terrorists along the border with Thailand after the official end of the Emergency in July 1960. Between 1964 and 1966 its units served in southern Malaya and Borneo on operations against the Indonesians during Confrontation. It was redesignated 28 (ANZUK) Brigade in November 1971 under the Five Power Defence Arrangements which emerged from Britain's decision finally to withdraw from ‘east of Suez’ and the termination of the Anglo-Malayan Defence Agreement. It was finally disestablished in February 1975 when Australia withdrew its battalion, although the New Zealand unit remained in Singapore until the 1980s."

Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/28th-commonwealth-infantry-brigade#ixzz2ZrLKWF5J
Regards
Glen
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: Diana Alan on July 24, 2013, 11:53:47 AM
Thanks Glen.  :)
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: aussiegregmac on July 24, 2013, 12:42:36 PM
Tks Glen.  I checked the 208 Sig Sqn site and got some good reference material to dress up my Series 2 FFW.
Good stuff.
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: 4X4-566 on July 24, 2013, 01:56:31 PM
I remember the old Inter AA trucks on the Singleton area in the early 70s, we thought them so old in comparison with the new Mk4s and F1s.

Doug
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: Diana Alan on July 24, 2013, 02:05:40 PM
Tks Glen.  I checked the 208 Sig Sqn site and got some good reference material to dress up my Series 2 FFW.
Good stuff.
Now you'll have to find some Larkspur radio stuff to load up in the back!

Tim Vibert (Empire Trading), at Winton Raceway in Victoria had some of the radio platforms, but I don't think he had the track to mount them on the wheel boxes in the Landy.  The mounts would be pretty easy to make, most of it is some 3" x 2" timber.

Diana
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: aussiegregmac on July 24, 2013, 08:18:32 PM
Thanks for the tip Diana.  Have been working on getting Larkspur stuff for a while, but I won't hijack the thread so I'll zip it.

Glen, on the 208 Sig Sqn site I saw the Commonwealth Brigade Crown Tacsign and I saw the Number 1 on the Signals plate (white over blue).   I also saw another vehicle with a 1 on solid red.  Would be a Battalion vehicle then maybe.
(the vehicle pictured in front of a temple/pogoda)

Greg Mac.
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: Diana Alan on July 24, 2013, 08:42:05 PM
A plain red tac is Infantry.  You then have to decode the serial to the regiment/battalion.

Didn't sigs units often use the serial of the infantry regiment to which they were attached, like the RAEME/REME do with their LAD?
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: aussiegregmac on July 24, 2013, 09:51:34 PM
You're most likely correct Diana in the fact that the figure One would refer to the one entire Battalion organisation plus attachments as a 1/3rd part of the Brigade.    Anyway, gives me food for thought re my Series 2 FFW similiar to the questions that started the thread. 
Greg Mac.
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: Magellan on July 24, 2013, 11:08:27 PM
Hi Glen, it's dark in the post but it's actually Royal Blue in real life. I got the info for the TACs from photos of vehicles in Malacca (during The Emergency) at the time and my brother-in-law who served in 208 Sigs as a Sergeant. When I asked about his role..."did yer get shot at?" answer..."we were protected by armed men but it was mostly beer and bbqs!!!" Knowing my b-in-law he'd've had a good time of it

cheers, Daryl
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: Mick on July 24, 2013, 11:43:26 PM
Diana , just in relation to your question regarding units attached to Battalions , etc.

My understanding is a sig det attached to a battalion is not part of the battalion and would have the Tac Signs of the Signal Squadron it belongs to. A battalion LAD would use the battalion Tac Signs as it is part of Admin Coy.

A unit with a Workshop such as a transport Company,Engineer Squadron , Armd squadron / Regiment, then they would have  the unit designation with the Blue, Red, and Yellow of the RAEME .

Mick
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: Diana Alan on July 24, 2013, 11:52:31 PM
Thanks Mick

I was pretty sure about the RAEME using the serial over their own RAEME colours, so thought it may be the same for sigs.

Would a group of signalers as small as a squad attached to a company rather that a battalion still wear their unit serial and sigs tac?
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: Mick on July 25, 2013, 12:14:58 AM
A battalion has its own sig platoon which provides commas within the battalion, these soldiers are infantry corpses and belong to Support Coy. A sig det , 3 or 4 sig corpses soldiers commanded by a corporal provide comms from the battalion to the Brigade HQ, so to answer your question. No, a sig det from the brigade Sig Squadron would not be attached to a company.

Cheers,

Mick
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: Diana Alan on July 25, 2013, 03:55:27 AM
Thanks Mick
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: Mick on July 25, 2013, 02:09:06 PM
Hey Diana,
Adding to my last post, the sig det would deploy with Battalion Headquarters , in their own FFR, the soldiers and vehicle would belong to the Bridgade Signals Sqn, such as 104 Sig Sqn, etc. their vehicle would have the Signal Squadrons unit tac plates.

Cheers,

Mick
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: Diana Alan on July 25, 2013, 02:32:17 PM
Hi Mick

Learning more every day!  :)

If the sigs det had their own FFR with the serial of the Sig Sqn over the Sigs tac colours (white over dark blue).  Would that apply to all FFR, or could FFR with the radio kit fitted (FWR) be allocated to other units and not be part of a sigs sqn or sigs det? e.g. the signallers in an infantry company, would have an FFR?

I ask this because my SIII FFR has one tac sign holder that seems to be painted all blue (top and bottom), so engineers not sigs and the vehicle has in-service evidence of being fitted with the antenna mounts for HF antennae (either AN-106 or the AWA F3 HF radios), so was FWR in-service.

Diana
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: zulu delta 534 on July 25, 2013, 06:25:10 PM
This is one of two FFRs  that we had in Innisfail in 1964 with 6TTU. Note the Tac signs are not R Aust Sigs. The radio ops on both these vehicles were RAASC personnel (one of them was a real nice bloke!)
We carried a variety of radios in the back to enable us to communicate with base, C11 R210 for A vehicles as well as B 47? for the B vehicles.
There was an R Aust Sigs "Tech Sig" posted to the Unit and his main responsibility was to maintain the batteries.
The thick scrub up there played havoc with general comms hence the "home made" extension up the tree to the standard whip antenna.
(http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/glenpats/Old%20cars/Callsign22_zpsac01594a.jpg)

Had a lot of fun playing with the 12th multiple rule on these sets (transmitting on, for example, 3 megs and receiving the transmission on a 12 multiple of that frequency (36 meg). Worked well with a transistor radio set up (off common broadcast frequency) on the footpath and a voice transmission made from a hidden FFR would startle many an unsuspecting passer by.
There is also a lesson in the above photograph concerning what fungus will do to a Kodachrome slide in a tropical climate.
Regards
Glen
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: Carzee on July 25, 2013, 08:36:31 PM
Hi Glan, its still a good photo, the X means a ADE trial task or something like that, doesn't it?
I have some family slides that are from the 70s and they are starting to go.
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: Diana Alan on July 25, 2013, 10:11:00 PM
Hi Glan, its still a good photo, the X means a ADE trial task or something like that, doesn't it?
I have some family slides that are from the 70s and they are starting to go.
X means eXperimental branch.  One of the many names it had over the years.
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: Mick on July 25, 2013, 11:43:30 PM
Hi Diana,

Every unit in the brigade would have FFR's, in an infantry unit ( my background is infantry) each Rifle coy has 2 land rovers 1GS , 1FFR.  BHQ would have 3 or 4 FFR's, one for command net, admin net, and CO. Sig platoon maintains these vehicles and supplies sigs and sig equipment.  A sig det from sig platoon would also be attached to each company and deploy in the company FFR. In support coy each platoon would have an FFR ,GS or both. Admin coy would also have an FFR and a sig det from Sig Platoon.

As said earlier the sig Sqn would provide a FFR with 3 sig's , one being a corporal det commander to Battalion HQ to provide communications back to Brigade HQ.

Engineers, would have a FFR at their HQ's and would have FFR's though out the unit, they would also have support from the Bridage sig sqn.
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: Diana Alan on July 26, 2013, 12:04:28 AM
Hi Diana,

Every unit in the brigade would have FFR's, in an infantry unit ( my background is infantry) each Rifle coy has 2 land rovers 1GS , 1FFR.  BHQ would have 3 or 4 FFR's, one for command net, admin net, and CO. Sig platoon maintains these vehicles and supplies sigs and sig equipment.  A sig det from sig platoon would also be attached to each company and deploy in the company FFR. In support coy each platoon would have an FFR ,GS or both. Admin coy would also have an FFR and a sig det from Sig Platoon.

As said earlier the sig Sqn would provide a FFR with 3 sig's , one being a corporal det commander to Battalion HQ to provide communications back to Brigade HQ.

Engineers, would have a FFR at their HQ's and would have FFR's though out the unit, they would also have support from the Bridage sig sqn.
So I'm understanding that my FFR could well have been a RAE FFR vehicle, with engineers tac etc?

Good thing I'm a volly at the engineers museum then.  Guess I'll have to make up some blue 17/292 tac signs if I can't identify any actual numbers painted directly onto the holder.
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: Mick on July 26, 2013, 12:17:58 AM
Hi Diana,

Exactly, every unit within the Brigade would have a number of FFR's on their establishment.


Mick
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: mzungumagic on July 26, 2013, 09:37:16 AM
Hi Diana,

Every unit in the brigade would have FFR's, in an infantry unit ( my background is infantry) each Rifle coy has 2 land rovers 1GS , 1FFR.  BHQ would have 3 or 4 FFR's, one for command net, admin net, and CO. Sig platoon maintains these vehicles and supplies sigs and sig equipment.  A sig det from sig platoon would also be attached to each company and deploy in the company FFR. In support coy each platoon would have an FFR ,GS or both. Admin coy would also have an FFR and a sig det from Sig Platoon.

As said earlier the sig Sqn would provide a FFR with 3 sig's , one being a corporal det commander to Battalion HQ to provide communications back to Brigade HQ.

Engineers, would have a FFR at their HQ's and would have FFR's though out the unit, they would also have support from the Bridage sig sqn.

Mick,

My infantry experience from (perhaps) an earlier time, is different.  Company signallers from the Sig Pl would not have FFRs.  They would deploy with a rifle company on foot, like the rest of us and carry everything they needed for a period of say three to five days, till they were resupplied.

The Sig det from the Brigade Sig Sqn was different - they had vehicles.

As a matter of some interest perhaps, the rule of thumb is that the higher HQ supplied the communications to the lower unit.

Things may well be different nowadays, but that was the modus operandi in dismounted infantry units, from the early 70s to the mid 90s.


Jack
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: Mick on July 26, 2013, 02:19:59 PM
G'day Jack,

Your right when the battalion deployed on foot Sig platoon sig's would be man packing radio's , I was trying to explain the vehicle establishment of a battalion and support from the brigade sig det and unit tac signs.

I was attempting to get across just because it was an FFR doesn't mean it was from a sig unit. You don't remember ech rifle coy having a OC's land rover (FFR) and the CQMS land rover (GS) ?

Cheers
Mick
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: mzungumagic on July 26, 2013, 04:29:28 PM
No, Mick - back in the middle 80s, I was a company commander in 3 RAR - the only veh we had was the CQ's !

I used to enjoy seeing it though, along with the rest of the company - it generally had the hot meals !

All the best, mate.



Jack
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: Mick on July 26, 2013, 06:10:51 PM
That's interesting Jack,

I was in the " Big Blue One" and our OC's had a FFR.  Great to know there's a few from the RAR out there.

Cheers mate,

Mick
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: Diana Alan on July 26, 2013, 08:49:39 PM
It gets confusing, it seems to me that many FFR were never fitted with the radios and were used much like regular Rovers.

With mine it seems to have been fitted with a full set of radio kit including HF antenna using the brackets usually fitted to armoured vehicles.

(http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m2/Auntikinus/Army%20Land%20Rovers/SIII-FFR-30-146/PICT1855.jpg)

From that perspective it would appear to have been a sigs Rover, but the tac holder painted all blue would suggest Sappers.  Not discounting the possibility it could have been with two different units during its life.

Diana
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: Phoenix on July 27, 2013, 11:51:16 AM
I know a chap that is in my local club who is ex artillery and used the 2a FFT's (and has one in fact).  His comment about that was that he remembers there being 2 types that they referd to.  Fitted For Radio and Fitted With radio.  Some had radios in them all the time, others could have them put in if they ieeded to, but otherwise were regular units.  Seems to fit with what we are seeing about the place.
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: aussiegregmac on July 27, 2013, 11:56:11 AM
In a way just a confusing term for a FFR that didn't have the gear fitted.  No difference between the vehicles.
I think something that crept in but didn't really mean anything.
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: Phoenix on July 29, 2013, 11:02:59 AM
In a way just a confusing term for a FFR that didn't have the gear fitted.  No difference between the vehicles.
I think something that crept in but didn't really mean anything.
Yes its only when they are Fitted WITH Radio (FWR) that it becomes a sigs vehicle, until that happens its merely a Land Rover with dual 12V and 24V electrical systems.

What a load of rubbish. How about doing some research before posting such fantasy as fact.

PJ

Echelon where did that come from?  Diana was simply postulating on the information that we were discussing.   If you have something constructive to include please do, but simply shooting the person for making a suggestion is not acceptable.
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: THE BOOGER on July 29, 2013, 08:55:20 PM
An other thing is FFR,s were sent to units without radios radios .AFAIK radios were fitted from unit stock as required. Armoured units such as 2 cav did not have any FFR,s as all the A veh were fitted with radios and all drivers were qualified sigs although some vehicles have a operator on board.
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: Mick on July 29, 2013, 09:29:03 PM
Hi everyone,
I think you could safely say every unit within a brigade would have had an FFR . I reckon even armd units would have a few around the place. The types of radio's fitted to them all is another can of worms.

Mick
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: Diana Alan on July 29, 2013, 09:33:42 PM
Thanks Phoenix and The Booger

That is what I was trying to express, that FFR were merely that Landrovers that could have radios fitted.  The emphasis on "could".

The fact that they sat parked in a motor pool or may have never been allocated to a sigs unit or even to another unit who never actually fitted radios makes them little more than a regular Land Rover with a few unusual bits.

But we digress from Tac, for some time I have been trying to sort out why my vehicle had evidence of both having AN-GRC/106 or AWA F3 and the tac sign sign holder painted blue at the top and bottom as if an engineers vehicle.  I merely wanted confirmation that it was possible that an engineer unit would have a radio equipped FFR.

Diana
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: Mick on July 29, 2013, 09:44:06 PM
It is very possible.

Mick
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: Magellan on October 24, 2013, 12:47:07 PM
signs as promised.

Helo Diana, can you please advise whether the colour green in the Training Command TAC is correct, I've been on the Army website and the current Training patch describes a 'mid green'.

Is it possible that the colour has changed over the years? (seems unlikely to me though)

Here is a link to the site...http://www.army.gov.au/Our-work/Equipment-and-clothing/Army-Dress-Manual/Unit-Colour-Patch-Register/Training (http://www.army.gov.au/Our-work/Equipment-and-clothing/Army-Dress-Manual/Unit-Colour-Patch-Register/Training)
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: aussiegregmac on October 24, 2013, 01:22:28 PM
g'day matey,  that website you gave a link to describes colour patches which designates UNITS using the patch that attaches to the shoulder of the uniform.  From the colour and pattern for those in the know you could identify the unit that a member belonged to.
This has no relevance to the so called TAC Sign that is attached to a vehicle.  The colours usually designated what CORPS the vehicle belonged to and with the addition of numbers and/or letters you could then identify the UNIT when you knew what the number referred to.
Greg Mac.
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: Magellan on October 24, 2013, 09:20:16 PM
Hello Greg, thanks v.much for your reply. If I understand your point, it is that Corps colours on TAC plates are correctly representative of just that, but colour patches don't necessarily correctly represent the Corps colours?
Cheers, Daryl
Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: aussiegregmac on October 24, 2013, 09:28:42 PM
Short answer, Yes.    For example, my Mark 1 Akubra hanging in the hallway has the side patch of my Unit from another Century which is a rectangle with a diagonal dark green on top and white on the bottom.
These were also the Unit patches previously worn on the shoulder of the uniform.

But the Corps colour on the Vehicle Tac Plate is diagonal Red over Yellow in a square.
Confusing what ?? but even so,,   ARMOUR RULES OK


Title: Re: Replica TAC plates
Post by: Magellan on October 25, 2013, 06:28:51 AM
Thanks once again, who'd've thought a Government department would do something confusing!  ::)