Registry of Ex Military Land Rovers

International Trucks => International Truck Chat => Topic started by: Bundy on May 11, 2017, 12:08:15 AM

Title: Mk5 swivel hub seals
Post by: Bundy on May 11, 2017, 12:08:15 AM
Hi everyone,
                  I'm new to the forum and am just working my way through the posting process so bare with me.
I am in the process of restoring a 69 model Mk5 6x6. I live in a remote part of the Kimberley in W.A. and am having trouble sourcing part for my truck.
Would anyone know where I would find a set or two of new swivel hub seals, just the rubber ones.
Any help would be much appreciated.
Bundy.
Title: Re: Mk5 swivel hub seals
Post by: FFRMAN on May 11, 2017, 09:13:10 AM
Hi everyone,
                  I'm new to the forum and am just working my way through the posting process so bare with me.
I am in the process of restoring a 69 model Mk5 6x6. I live in a remote part of the Kimberley in W.A. and am having trouble sourcing part for my truck.
Would anyone know where I would find a set or two of new swivel hub seals, just the rubber ones.
Any help would be much appreciated.
Bundy.

The guys in Bridgewater, Vic

Jeff Clarke, I'll PM his phone number

they had a batch made and heaps there a couple of months ago

cheers
Scott
Title: Re: Mk5 swivel hub seals
Post by: Acco 4x4 on May 11, 2017, 09:23:52 AM
If he has a bunch id like to buy a pair or two as well.
Tim
Title: Re: Mk5 swivel hub seals
Post by: Bundy on May 11, 2017, 09:04:05 PM
Thanks Scott. Never thought I'd find new rubber seals.
Good on ya.
Drew.
Title: Re: Mk5 swivel hub seals
Post by: Bundy on May 12, 2017, 08:15:46 PM
I had no luck with Jeff Clarke, he had sold the last swivel hub seal he had this morning. Would anyone else have any leads on where to look    for seals?
Drew.
Title: Re: Mk5 swivel hub seals
Post by: dkg001 on May 13, 2017, 08:50:55 AM
You could try Pat Toole he has some international spares 0419 348336 if he hasn't got any he may be able to track some down.
Title: Re: Mk5 swivel hub seals
Post by: john.k on May 13, 2017, 01:38:08 PM
I have a container half full of them,but they are NOS,and also wrapped in lots of 20.I have been going crazy lately preparing for a house build,but the council have knocked it all back,I now owe the builders heaps for their work.As I have said before,if you want to see me ,knock on my door in Brisbane.You wouldnt believe the hassle,I had to get an old crawler crane going that had been sitting for 15 years,see off a council inspector,threatening me with million dollar fines,then a "show cause " notice.Meanwhile the wrecking yard next door continues without any interference from council,despite no approvals.Beyond me.Did get a bin of 6x6 springs loaded tho,and got 10ton,$1700 cash.,next an old crawler crane thats 20ton.At least I dont have to worry about the house anymore,its a relief.
Title: Re: Mk5 swivel hub seals
Post by: Acco 4x4 on May 13, 2017, 07:31:46 PM
Hi John, can I buy a packet of them off you? I can forward them on to others if you like
Tim
Title: Re: Mk5 swivel hub seals
Post by: Bundy on May 13, 2017, 08:51:23 PM
Hey John,
               Yeah I'll buy a few sets too if you'd want to sell any.
Drew.
Title: Re: Mk5 swivel hub seals
Post by: Diana Alan on May 13, 2017, 08:59:28 PM
Hi John, can I buy a packet of them off you? I can forward them on to others if you like
Tim
If they're the same as the ones on the Mk3, I'd be interested in four too.

In fact I'm also looking for supplies of the inner hub seals for all wheels (x8= 2 sets) and the outer cork and rubber seals for the front hubs and I'd take four of each of those too.

Perhaps someone near John K could make up a wish list of what parts other members want and when we've got a decent list with sufficient quantities then John can advise what he has and fill the orders in a one off at John's convenience?

Diana
Title: Re: Mk5 swivel hub seals
Post by: Bundy on June 17, 2017, 08:44:36 PM
Hey Guys,
               Did anyone have any luck finding seal??

Drew.
Title: Re: Mk5 swivel hub seals
Post by: dkg001 on June 18, 2017, 08:37:48 AM
Did you try Pat Toole ?
Title: Re: Mk5 swivel hub seals
Post by: STDDIVER on June 18, 2017, 07:38:24 PM
If any one knows of any supplies of seals - I am in - F1 or Mk 3  Happy to buy a set for each vehicle.

Cheers

STDDIVER
Title: Re: Mk5 swivel hub seals
Post by: john.k on July 27, 2017, 09:31:50 PM
Do you want a hundred or a thousand.? The guy nextdoor is offering 2 1/2 for the land,and Ill just walk away.
Title: Re: Mk5 swivel hub seals
Post by: STDDIVER on July 28, 2017, 02:07:05 PM
Hi John - Depending on the price - I will buy 100  and I can get them collected -- I am happy to share them out at cost.

Please let me know the price you are asking?   Happy for a PM    :)
 
Cheers

Frank   

Title: Re: Mk5 swivel hub seals
Post by: Bundy on September 02, 2017, 07:42:08 AM
Hey STDDIVER,
                      How did you go with John, were you able to secure a set of hub seals. I'm still having trouble finding a set.
Would anyone else have any ideas where to find a set?? Starting to think I may have to look in to get a set made some how :-\
Title: Re: Mk5 swivel hub seals
Post by: STDDIVER on September 02, 2017, 11:18:31 AM
G'day  Bundy - I have heard nothing from John so far.  As soon as I hear something I will let you know.

Cheers   Frank

Title: Re: Mk5 swivel hub seals
Post by: Bundy on September 03, 2017, 10:10:22 AM
Hey Frank,
               No worries. If you are unable to secure any I am looking in to a couple rubber moulding companies that may be able to manufacture some.
I'll keep you informed.
Title: Re: Mk5 swivel hub seals
Post by: STDDIVER on September 03, 2017, 02:56:51 PM
 Great one Bundy - I have a heap of the threaded steel part of the seals that I have changed out  With new rubber seals fitted they could be good to go again.  If anything happens I'll let you know'

Cheers   Frank 
Title: Re: Mk5 swivel hub seals
Post by: Bundy on September 05, 2017, 08:45:13 AM
Hey Frank,
               The swivel hub seal I am looking at getting made is a rubber sealing ring about 200mm across and about 25mm wide and fits to the round stirring knuckle of the front axle. I think you are talking about the hub bearing nut with the rubber seal attached to it, do you also need the swivel hub seal?
I will ask if they are able to rebond rubber to steel for your hub nuts.
I'll let you know how I get on.

Bundy.
Title: Re: Mk5 swivel hub seals
Post by: Richard Farrant on September 05, 2017, 08:58:57 AM
               The swivel hub seal I am looking at getting made is a rubber sealing ring about 200mm across and about 25mm wide and fits to the round stirring knuckle of the front axle.

Sometime ago, someone mentioned that front axle swivel components on AACO's were the same as a Bedford RL. I came across these seals a couple of years ago on a stall at Corowa, thinking they were Bedford (I am very familiar with them have renewed countless ones over the years). The part number on the bag did not look like Bedford, asked the stallholder and he said "Inter". Now having looked at a Inter manual, I am convinced these are identical to Bedford ones. Just so you are aware, this same part number seal was used by Bedford from 1941 (on the QL), through the RL and finally the MK/MJ trucks. With some of these being used in the past by rural fire brigades, etc. it might be another avenue to pursue for seals. Someone must know if the swivel components are exact copies of Bedford parts. There are two half circle brass spring leafs to hold the seal lip on  to the spherical housing too.

Here is one on Ebay, for reference;

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bedford-RL-M-Series-4x4-Front-Axle-Tracta-Joint-Seal-Bedford-6350119-/292211327176?epid=1724733269&hash=item44092700c8:g:Sf0AAOSwo4pYMyOd

regards, Richard
Title: Re: Mk5 swivel hub seals
Post by: STDDIVER on September 05, 2017, 01:35:54 PM
Thanks Richard - Very helpful -
Frank
Title: Re: Mk5 swivel hub seals
Post by: Ravvin on September 05, 2017, 05:57:04 PM
I just had a look at my front swivel seals.
They have both started leaking, now that I have moved the truck a few times. Hopefully they just need pulling off and a bit of a clean.

(https://photos.smugmug.com/180-971/n-sFgXhV/i-PTdgp5t/0/1376af49/M/i-PTdgp5t-M.jpg)

Looking at the pic, I noticed that they have 11 bolts holding the retainer in place. The Bedford one shown on Ebay has 6, so might be a bit different.
The retainer with the fingers for the Bedford is in 2 pieces, with 3 holes in each. The MK3 Workshop manual says the Inter ones are in 2 pieces also, but I think they will have 11 holes to match the outer retainer. The outer ring that holds everything together on the Bedfords has 12 holes.

I've actually changed one, but it was over 20 years ago and I just can't remember the details. I am pretty sure that the rubber seal was cut across on a 45 angle so you could get it on without major disassembly, but that's all I can recall.

Greg.
Title: Re: Mk5 swivel hub seals
Post by: dugite on September 05, 2017, 06:14:01 PM
To ameliorate the "leaking swivel" situation, Land Rover changed from 80/90weight oil to a thin grease. Many LR Series owners have adopted this procedure. I wouldn't know if it is appropriate for IH swivels but it sure lessens the leakage problem on a LR.

It obviously shouldn't be used when selective locking hubs are installed :)
Title: Re: Mk5 swivel hub seals
Post by: Richard Farrant on September 05, 2017, 07:42:23 PM
Looking at the pic, I noticed that they have 11 bolts holding the retainer in place. The Bedford one shown on Ebay has 6, so might be a bit different.
The retainer with the fingers for the Bedford is in 2 pieces, with 3 holes in each. The MK3 Workshop manual says the Inter ones are in 2 pieces also, but I think they will have 11 holes to match the outer retainer. The outer ring that holds everything together on the Bedfords has 12 holes.

I've actually changed one, but it was over 20 years ago and I just can't remember the details. I am pretty sure that the rubber seal was cut across on a 45 angle so you could get it on without major disassembly, but that's all I can recall.

Greg.

Hi Greg,
The bolts only go through the retaining ring. The holes you see in the Bedford seal on Ebay are for the dowel pins attached to the steel ring which locate the spring leaf and seal, hence you only seeing 6 holes. Take a look in the Inter manual and you will see the build up. If these seals are the same it could be an answer to your problem.

regards, Richard



Title: Re: Mk5 swivel hub seals
Post by: 303Gunner on September 05, 2017, 08:20:30 PM
Land Rover changed from 80/90weight oil to a thin grease.

It obviously shouldn't be used when selective locking hubs are installed :)
Could you explain to some (me!  :-[) who don't see the obvious?

Most other brand 4wds use grease within the front hubs and CVs and have no problems with their locking hubs.
Title: Re: Mk5 swivel hub seals
Post by: Ravvin on September 05, 2017, 08:47:57 PM
Have yet to see one of these Inters with locking hubs. :)

Thanks Richard. The Inter manual is not very clear with it's drawings of the swivel hubs.
I might pull one of the front hub seals apart if the weather is good this weekend and get some accurate measurements and detailed pics so I can compare them.
What makes it hard is that the Army lists these parts with a Department of Defence part number. As if they made them themselves. There's no way to look up a compatible part by number.
Referring back to the NSN number, it looks like it was also available as a Dana seal, part number 044056, which I can't seem to find on their website. I might send them an email and check if they still make them.

Greg.
Title: Re: Mk5 swivel hub seals
Post by: Richard Farrant on September 05, 2017, 09:08:30 PM
Have yet to see one of these Inters with locking hubs. :)

Thanks Richard. The Inter manual is not very clear with it's drawings of the swivel hubs.
I might pull one of the front hub seals apart if the weather is good this weekend and get some accurate measurements and detailed pics so I can compare them.
What makes it hard is that the Army lists these parts with a Department of Defence part number. As if they made them themselves. There's no way to look up a compatible part by number.
Referring back to the NSN number, it looks like it was also available as a Dana seal, part number 044056, which I can't seem to find on their website. I might send them an email and check if they still make them.

Greg.

Hi Greg,
If you measure your seal, I will compare with a Bedford one. I think you mentioned the 45 degree cut, this is not as the seal is supplied, it was only done if the spherical housing was not removed from the axle housing. The cut was positioned at the top with some sealer in it.

cheers Richard
Title: Re: Mk5 swivel hub seals
Post by: Ravvin on September 05, 2017, 09:22:42 PM
Now that you mention it, that's exactly what we did.

I'll pull one apart on the weekend and get some measurements.
Title: Re: Mk5 swivel hub seals
Post by: Bundy on September 06, 2017, 05:09:07 PM
Hey guys,
              the reason to my knowledge for the use of oil in the swivel hub instead of grease is the fact that there is no seal between the diff housing and the swivel housing only a brass bush with an oil groove in it to allow oil to lubricate the bush, witch in turn allows oil to move between the two housings under high temps and high driving angles. I have had my swivel hubs completely apart and have seen what happens when diff oil and heavy grease mix, not pretty. It also caused the rubber of the seals to break down and become soft and sticky and leak, witch could have been the type of grease the previous owner used in the hub.
I have an ACCO swivel hub seal on my bench at the moment and it measures approx across 223mm and 25mm wide and about 8mm thick not including the knife edge. The 6 dowel holes in the seal measure centre to centre approx 106mm. I had a look at the Bedford seals on Ebay and they look very similar. If someone has a Bedford seal to check against I'd like to know how close they are.

Bundy.


     
Title: Re: Mk5 swivel hub seals
Post by: Richard Farrant on September 06, 2017, 06:00:03 PM
I have an ACCO swivel hub seal on my bench at the moment and it measures approx across 223mm and 25mm wide and about 8mm thick not including the knife edge. The 6 dowel holes in the seal measure centre to centre approx 106mm. I had a look at the Bedford seals on Ebay and they look very similar. If someone has a Bedford seal to check against I'd like to know how close they are.

Bundy.


   

hi Bundy,
I have a Bedford seal at work and will check it later on and post the results.

regards, Richard
Title: Re: Mk5 swivel hub seals
Post by: Bundy on September 06, 2017, 07:45:54 PM
Great Richard, look forward to reading the results.
Bundy
Title: Re: Mk5 swivel hub seals
Post by: Bluebell One-eight on September 06, 2017, 09:39:31 PM
Great Richard, look forward to reading the results.
Bundy
Richard you are probably on the right track, the tracta joint assembly was Girling so there is a good chance it's the same as Bedford...John
Title: Re: Mk5 swivel hub seals
Post by: Richard Farrant on September 07, 2017, 03:09:42 AM
I have an ACCO swivel hub seal on my bench at the moment and it measures approx across 223mm and 25mm wide and about 8mm thick not including the knife edge. The 6 dowel holes in the seal measure centre to centre approx 106mm. I had a look at the Bedford seals on Ebay and they look very similar. If someone has a Bedford seal to check against I'd like to know how close they are.

Bundy.


   

Hi Bundy,
I wuz right  ;)  your measurements check out exactly on a Bedford tracta seal.
https://www.buyexmilitarysurplus.co.uk/products/Bedford-MJ.Tracta-joint.Oil-Seal.--Pt.No.6350119.--NSN-2530998954105.html


regards, Richard
Title: Re: Mk5 swivel hub seals
Post by: Chazza on September 07, 2017, 08:16:13 AM
Well done Richard and Bundy!  :D
Title: Re: Mk5 swivel hub seals
Post by: Bundy on September 07, 2017, 01:23:23 PM
Unreal Richard!! that's great news, well done.
Was your Bedford seal in a packet? If so was the number on it 6350119?
I will track a set down and see how they go.

Bundy.
Title: Re: Mk5 swivel hub seals
Post by: Richard Farrant on September 07, 2017, 05:16:42 PM
Unreal Richard!! that's great news, well done.
Was your Bedford seal in a packet? If so was the number on it 6350119?
I will track a set down and see how they go.

Bundy.

There were several in a bag with 'Genuine Bedford Parts' label and number on. If you click on the link I posted that guy has some at a reasonable price, some are asking double that.

regards, Richard
Title: Re: Mk5 swivel hub seals
Post by: Bundy on September 07, 2017, 09:13:55 PM
Hey Richard,
                  Thanks for that. I will check the link out again.

Bundy.
Title: Re: Mk5 swivel hub seals
Post by: Bundy on October 07, 2017, 10:25:02 PM
Hey Guys,
              Just a follow up on the Bedford swivel hub seals for an ACCO.
I ordered a set from the link Richard provided and received them a couple of days ago. On the packet they came in was the part number 6350119.
I fitted one of the seals to my truck yesterday and filled the tracta hub with oil. On checking the seal this morning it was still totally sealed and dry, no leaks to be seen:D.
Thanks to everyone who helped with the search for an alternative seal,

Good on ya's
Bundy 
Title: Re: Mk5 swivel hub seals
Post by: Richard Farrant on October 08, 2017, 09:20:43 AM
Hey Guys,
              Just a follow up on the Bedford swivel hub seals for an ACCO.
I ordered a set from the link Richard provided and received them a couple of days ago. On the packet they came in was the part number 6350119.
I fitted one of the seals to my truck yesterday and filled the tracta hub with oil. On checking the seal this morning it was still totally sealed and dry, no leaks to be seen:D.
Thanks to everyone who helped with the search for an alternative seal,

Good on ya's
Bundy

Hi Bundy,
Good to hear it worked out for you. Nice one!

cheers Richard