Registry of Ex Military Land Rovers

REMLR Member Sheds => REMLR Member Sheds => Diana A's Shed => Topic started by: Diana Alan on November 16, 2013, 11:32:16 PM

Title: Diana's Buggy, 112-723/726 - Emmett
Post by: Diana Alan on November 16, 2013, 11:32:16 PM
Dianna,if you know when it left service ie date of disposal that will give a good indication of paint scheme.
Hi John

I don't actually know when it left service but there is evidence of the Auscam tan in the passengers area, there is also both the cam green and black in other areas.  Unfortunately the whole vehicle was painted black on the outside post service, so it is almost impossible to determine which is the black from the Auscam scheme and which the post service black.

The tan evidence is sufficient to know it must have remained in service to the 1990s and was in temperate zone Auscam scheme.  My best guide of an Auscam scheme will be Scott's 112-245 which still has its last in-service paint intact.

Diana
Title: Re: Diana's shed. (although its in three places)
Post by: John H on November 17, 2013, 12:05:41 AM
Ok,deffinately post 89ish.8/9 RAR still had gunbunnies when I was there as an apprentice(raeme) in 86. everything was OD.Somewhere on the gun buggy thread is 4xbugs in multi cam.They are 8/9 RAR.
Title: Diana's Buggy
Post by: Diana Alan on November 19, 2013, 09:16:24 PM
Dianna,if you know when it left service ie date of disposal that will give a good indication of paint scheme.
Hi John

I don't actually know when it left service but there is evidence of the Auscam tan in the passengers area, there is also both the cam green and black in other areas.  Unfortunately the whole vehicle was painted black on the outside post service, so it is almost impossible to determine which is the black from the Auscam scheme and which the post service black.

The tan evidence is sufficient to know it must have remained in service to the 1990s and was in temperate zone Auscam scheme.  My best guide of an Auscam scheme will be Scott's 112-245 which still has its last in-service paint intact.

Diana
Ok,deffinately post 89ish.8/9 RAR still had gunbunnies when I was there as an apprentice(raeme) in 86. everything was OD.Somewhere on the gun buggy thread is 4xbugs in multi cam.They are 8/9 RAR.
Title: Re: Diana's Buggy
Post by: Diana Alan on November 19, 2013, 09:17:39 PM
Dianna,if you know when it left service ie date of disposal that will give a good indication of paint scheme.
That makes sense John.

As with the LRPVs, the numerous paint schemes and unit markings should be extant under the current indigenous inspired paint scheme. Sand back a small section of bodywork and Diana should know more :).
Hi Tommy and John

Part of this is answered in a new thread I started in the "Member sheds" area.

As to Tommy's comment, I have rubbed back a number of areas only to reveal OD and the fact that someone decided to remove paint with an angle grinder, so the body is completely scored over almost every aluminium panel. (you can see the scoring in the following image.)

(http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m2/Auntikinus/Army%20Land%20Rovers/RCL%20Carriers/112-723/DSCN0157.jpg)

BTW: In the above image, you can see some of the Auscam tan on the passengers floor.
Title: Re: Diana's Buggy
Post by: Diana Alan on November 19, 2013, 09:26:19 PM
Dear me :o, that looks nasty :(.

So whats the plan, spray putty the whole vehicle?
Hi Tommy

I've moved this part to a thread on the buggy because it is hyacking the markings thread.

Sorry I haven't got any photos but I will take some ASAP.  When I started rubbing back the damage may be repairable with a couple of coats of high build primer rubbing back between coats.  The dilemma is that the panel you can see is relatively badly dented in.  I have already bought a NOS LH mudguard which I was going to cut down using the original front panel. Would that be destroying the heritage of a genuine buggy guard?

Gary has suggested that I need to do a full strip down and build up, and while that is daunting.  I believe he is correct in the task at least it is a Vietnam Vet chassis so probably deserves some TLC.

Diana
Title: Re: Diana's Buggy
Post by: Diana Alan on December 19, 2013, 05:14:09 PM
Was just viewing the SRV walkaroung and came across this image.

(http://data3.primeportal.net/trucks/mike_hughes/land_rover_srv/images/land_rover_srv_04_of_34.jpg)

Note the hooks on the body?  While they don't have the rivet holes at the correct spacing I wonder if the same thing applies to the holes on my buggy?  (Above and below)

(http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m2/Auntikinus/Army%20Land%20Rovers/RCL%20Carriers/112-723/DSCN0156.jpg)

(http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m2/Auntikinus/Army%20Land%20Rovers/RCL%20Carriers/112-723/DSCN0155.jpg)

Just need to find the fittings to match the holes.

Title: Re: Diana's Buggy
Post by: Carzee on December 19, 2013, 05:23:59 PM
Those hooks are similar or identical to the hooks on the rear corner flaps on a tarp.

Canvas makers....
Title: Re: Diana's Buggy
Post by: FFRMAN on December 19, 2013, 05:35:55 PM
Those hooks are similar or identical to the hooks on the rear corner flaps on a tarp.

Canvas makers....

Diana,

I could send you a couple of different sizes (I'll grab a couple from work) and you could line up the holes, if you get a match it's a pretty good chance that is what was there.

Regards
Scott
Title: Re: Diana's Buggy
Post by: Diana Alan on December 19, 2013, 05:58:36 PM
It may be easier if I measure the holes and let you know. 

At one point I thought they may be related to the brass ends on webbing or small footman loops, but so far all have the holes too far apart.

Was even considering saddlers staples:

(http://birdsall-leather.com.au/images/P/assorted%20511.jpg)
Title: Re: Diana's Buggy
Post by: Tommy on December 20, 2013, 12:36:35 AM
Diana, have you asked the previous owner if they know anything about the double holes?
Title: Re: Diana's Buggy
Post by: Diana Alan on December 20, 2013, 11:34:20 AM
The preious two owners know nothing about the holes.
Title: Re: Diana's Buggy
Post by: Phoenix on December 20, 2013, 01:48:37 PM
I've seen similar loops on a GB before i'm sure.  Not sure if it was to hold on tarps, cam nets, hessian or something else, I need to try and find the pics, or was it at corowa... 
Title: Re: Diana's Buggy
Post by: Ellard on December 20, 2013, 03:42:37 PM
Hi there all

Richard I was thinking the same almost like something which can drape over the bull bar - maybe for deep water crossings?

Wayne
Title: Re: Diana's Buggy
Post by: Diana Alan on December 20, 2013, 08:30:26 PM
The way the pairs of holes are arranged, it looks like they are to strap the cam netting roll when the vehicle is on the move.

Sort of like these two:
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/lrswb2a09.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/112-333.jpg)
Title: Re: Diana's Buggy
Post by: 303Gunner on December 21, 2013, 01:04:43 AM
The SRV (and 6x6) have those hooks on the front guard to unfurl a canvas cover for the headlamps and sidelamps, presumably to prevent reflections from the lenses or inadvertently lighting them up while "lying in wait".

I have no doubt that the Gunbuggy would also have a similar requirement, plus the additional need for a screen of some sort to protect from muzzle blast. However, the orientation of the rivet/screw holes do not align the hooks with something that is drawn across the front grille or headlight area. I think your suggestion of stowage of cam nets is probably the right answer.
Title: Re: Diana's Buggy
Post by: Tommy on December 21, 2013, 02:01:44 AM
The way the pairs of holes are arranged, it looks like they are to strap the cam netting roll when the vehicle is on the move.

Sort of like these two:
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/lrswb2a09.jpg)

Diana

From the looks of it, it is not for a camo net but a hessian skirt. Hessian was used by the SASR and other army units as a means of covering the wheels whilst parked up. The two close holes would have been to rivet a length of webbing strap with buckle to the body.

The B&W photo below shows how the SASR attached the same webbing strap to their LRPV tailgates. Same size and hole spacing as on your Gunbuggy Diana.
Title: Re: Diana's Buggy
Post by: Diana Alan on December 21, 2013, 10:28:47 AM
Hmmmm I had often thought it may be straps, but was trying to find a fitting/s that would fit the holes.  Had never considered riveting the straps directly. It would explain why the holes are randomly spaced.

Have you ever seen the straps riveted in two places?

Would this arrangement give a clue to a unit it may have been posted to?
Title: Re: Diana's Buggy
Post by: digger on December 21, 2013, 05:22:45 PM
great stuff guys... loving this thread and the info coming from it...

Tommy, do you have a photo with "skirts down?" 

Diana, maybe talk to RichardO he had SA4 and could maybe tell you the size/space of holes on it... If not he may have photos that can help...
          and to double check he also had SA3 so maybe on that also??  (maybe yours was SA1 or SA2 indicating of course it should go to someone in SA,...MMMMM
          who lives in SA and would love a gunbuggy? )    ::)

 
Title: Re: Diana's Buggy
Post by: Tommy on December 21, 2013, 07:01:33 PM
great stuff guys... loving this thread and the info coming from it...

Tommy, do you have a photo with "skirts down?" 

Diana, maybe talk to RichardO he had SA4 and could maybe tell you the size/space of holes on it... If not he may have photos that can help...
          and to double check he also had SA3 so maybe on that also??  (maybe yours was SA1 or SA2 indicating of course it should go to someone in SA,...MMMMM
          who lives in SA and would love a gunbuggy? )    ::)

G'day Digger

Both Gunbuggies owned by Richard do not have the same double holes. None. His SA4 buggy is not the same as in the B&W photo. Although in the same location, the 'SA4' painted on Richards buggy is about half the size.

Here is a photo of a LRPV with hessian skirt. Even the Unimog sported a skirt.
Title: Re: Diana's Buggy
Post by: Diana Alan on December 21, 2013, 08:44:46 PM
Hi Digger

If we go back to Zulu Delta's markings thread we find that SA1 through SA4 (later SW1 thru 4) were the buggy compliment for a regiment.  So there would be multiples of each code depending upon the number of regiments etc.

Diana
Title: Re: Diana's Buggy
Post by: Chazza on December 28, 2013, 09:47:02 AM
The way the pairs of holes are arranged, it looks like they are to strap the cam netting roll when the vehicle is on the move.

Sort of like these two:
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/tommykm/Gunbuggies2/lrswb2a09.jpg)

Diana

From the looks of it, it is not for a camo net but a hessian skirt. Hessian was used by the SASR and other army units as a means of covering the wheels whilst parked up.

We used to use hessian on the Internationals and the Rovers by running a length of tie-wire around the vehicle and attaching the hessian to it. Sand bags were used to cover mirrors and lights.

If you look at Diana's Gunbuggy photo - and ignore that it is a gunbuggy - and then ask yourself to look at shapes  and shade; the most obvious parts of the GB then become the black areas under the car. This is the purpose of the hessian then - to remove the shade from the object, which a cam-net cannot do. The hessian can of course be painted to make it blend in with the background.

It is surprising how obvious shade is when viewed from a distance - the black polygon under the GB's front wheel would be a dead giveaway,

Cheers Charlie
Title: Re: Diana's Buggy, 112-723/726 - Emmett
Post by: Diana Alan on January 06, 2014, 02:21:44 PM
Charlie and Tommy

We have images of the hessian rolled up and I can see how it would work with tie wire, however we so far have no images of the hessian deployed.

If only the webbing straps are used, how does it support the top of the hessian?  Is there button holes or similar in the top of the hessian?

Are the two ends joined together under the door opening? 

What happens to the front and rear?

Was it ever fitted in SVN and/or outside Oz?

Diana
Title: Re: Diana's Buggy, 112-723/726 - Emmett
Post by: THE BOOGER on January 06, 2014, 02:47:32 PM
We tried hessian for a short while on the m113 but found in the bush it got ripped off to easily so the trial lasted less than a month cant remember how we attached it :(
Title: Re: Diana's Buggy, 112-723/726 - Emmett
Post by: Chazza on January 11, 2014, 04:04:09 PM
Charlie and Tommy

We have images of the hessian rolled up and I can see how it would work with tie wire, however we so far have no images of the hessian deployed.

If only the webbing straps are used, how does it support the top of the hessian?  Is there button holes or similar in the top of the hessian?

Are the two ends joined together under the door opening? 

What happens to the front and rear?

Was it ever fitted in SVN and/or outside Oz?

Diana

From what I remember, we tied the hessian to the wire with comms cord, probably about every 300mm and used the same cord to tie it in place when it was rolled up. On the Inters, the roll of hessian would have sat below the doors, so it wouldn't have hampered movement in and out of the truck. On the Rovers I can't remember, but it was probably a separate piece tied to the door. On the GB in the picture the webbing straps would probably hold the hessian up quite well, although a cord or wire could be used with it.

Multiple pieces of hessian can be fitted to any vehicle; for example front; side; door, back, etc. remember all it does is hide the shade under the car and the hessian needs to be quick and easy for two people to roll up and depart quickly, or to deploy quickly. Ends just need to overlap and they can be held down in a wind with a half-full sandbag.

There is no right or wrong way to do the job as long as it is easy to use and hides the shade and remember that the hessian should be painted to help camouflage it,

Cheers Charlie